Guest Blue Peter Cheat Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Arbitrary numbers are silly. Music is to be listened to, not relegated to a number. Too many journalists, not enough ears. So much music, so little time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manmower Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 i still lol everytime i read the story about him doing this on 9/11 while watching the towers collapsing. It's a wonderful piece of experimental music folklore, worthy of reaching the greatness of the supposedly outlandish Coum Transmission performances that no one ever filmed or photographed. i still love that every time this comes up you voice how incredulous you are about this completely reasonable story. I can't beleive some people think all his stories are real. It's just marketing, those "lost tapes for 20 years found in a closet" LOL cmon! There's just too much "back story" with each new release. At least with Aphex the mythical portion is still bullshit, but fun bullshit. Agreed, the stories have all but ruined the music for me to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Sombrero Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 A backlash has been overdue somewhat with regard to Mr Basinski. Bullshit detector is going off the scale with every interview I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 i still lol everytime i read the story about him doing this on 9/11 while watching the towers collapsing. It's a wonderful piece of experimental music folklore, worthy of reaching the greatness of the supposedly outlandish Coum Transmission performances that no one ever filmed or photographed. i still love that every time this comes up you voice how incredulous you are about this completely reasonable story. I can't beleive some people think all his stories are real. It's just marketing, those "lost tapes for 20 years found in a closet" LOL cmon! There's just too much "back story" with each new release. At least with Aphex the mythical portion is still bullshit, but fun bullshit. yay, and not to dick up the thread anymore (because doubting totally fictional sounding stories makes people think i'm being a dick) but if the music was amazing in any way, and not pretty standard sounding lofi loop based ambient music i wouldn't give a shit either way. IT's just that I've heard the stories so much and heard about his 'decades long' career in NY (even though he only started putting out physical releases in the last handful of years) that with all the build up the music left me feeling empty and wondering if the stories were designed to 'punch up' music that really wasn't that interesting in the first place. Not saying it's bad, it's more like average. In case anyone else was claiming Basinksi hasn't emphasized the 9/11 element, and it was just the press that did. Well he did a live rendition of the disintegration loops i believe on the last or previous 9/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm still waiting for MisterE to weigh in... ...not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 A backlash has been overdue somewhat with regard to Mr Basinski. Bullshit detector is going off the scale with every interview I read. cool, it makes me feel good when i'm not the only one who's bullshit detector is going off like a mad man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RadarJammer Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 i still lol everytime i read the story about him doing this on 9/11 while watching the towers collapsing. It's a wonderful piece of experimental music folklore, worthy of reaching the greatness of the supposedly outlandish Coum Transmission performances that no one ever filmed or photographed. Thanks for bring this up, and calling bullshit on the Coum Transmissions story. How can this shit be real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow U Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Oh man what a great thread! Would read again. (That is totally non sarcastic by the way - I've been saying the same shit about Basinski for years now too. Good to see I'm not the only one here who thinks the emperor has no clothes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinski Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 i have never read any interview with basinski and have no problem with believing his loops are legit, and that DL was based on loops from 20years prior to its release. i don't think every one of the releases is based on old tapes, but tapeloops in general i can believe. and is there any indication his story is bullshit? was he caught with fl studio or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow U Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I don't really care about any degree of how he made the music - the thing that I think puts many of us here off is the fact that he's tried to sensationalize some pretty average ambient music by hyping up everything else BUT the music itself. When it was recorded, the format it was recorded on, how long it stayed unreleased, the whole 9/11 connection, the degradation of the format, etc etc. Certainly I could not have been the first person ever to ask the question "If these loops were so special before, why wait until the tapes were falling apart to even release them? Why even let the tapes get to that point of degradation at all, if it's something you made that you like and presumably want to preserve adequately?" Really in the end I think Basinski wants his sort of ordinary ambient music to speak some amount of untold volumes on the human condition, but for me (and probably a lot of others) it just gets boring after a few minutes. Keep in mind that I know we're discussing ambient music here, and that "boring" is a helluva word to throw around when it comes to minimalism, but I've tried and tried and tried again to see just what makes this stuff so special and every time, I just want to reach for that dial. Edit: For what it's worth, I am willing to bet that I'd love this stuff a whole lot more if there wasn't so much ego to be digested along with it. You know, like ambient music that isn't SAYING SOMETHING. Ambient music should just be. It simply...is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinski Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 why is the story not believable? maybe the timing is kinda too perfect, but bits about preserving old loops and noticing the disintegration are not really far fetched. and i don't think it stayed unreleased for that long, made in 2001 and all out by 2003. and i don't think the original loops were that special. i think DL is overrated and all, but i am yet to see why it's not at least 90% legit in terms of back story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisk Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I can completely understand why people dislike his music and I myself very rarely make it all the way to the end of his tracks. I love loop-based music and can totally get lost in his tunes, but sometimes 3 seconds loops stretched over an hour can be just too much. Saying that, I don't think the guy has been anything other than humble in all the interviews I have read from him. He did his day job, came home and worked on his music. He went completely unnoticed for 20+ years, quietly doing his thing, which doesn't really fit the description of an egomaniac to me. I think people get too wrapped up in the whole 9/11 connection, which is unfortunate as it only represents a small fraction of his discography. Honestly, the Disintegration Loops is probably my least-favourite release(s) of his anyway. Melancholia and El Camino Reel are much better in my opinion and considering when they were originally made, very original works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Archrival Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 William Basinski is a great artist, love the music he makes. Yeah Melancholia and El Camino is even better than DL. Can't wait for his new release! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khov Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Honestly, i often listens to the disintegration loops, on trains, subway, late at night, wherever... and trust me, while enjoying it, the last thing i'm thinking about is 9/11 or when it was actually recorded : the only thing i'm thinking or feeling is that those endless loops sounds truly good. I dont know if the whole story is real but its just an indication, not the main beast (which is a killer ambient piece). that would be like judging Star Wars from the opening titles : its just a context to introduce a great movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Archrival Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Surely he has achieved something here, lots of controversy. "When you mention my name, its only giving me props". Yeah its all about the music, I would have probably even thought the music would be even better if it had a better name and that I hadnt heard the story of it. Its magical and not decent just generic ambient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimmy McMessageboard Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I was just listening to this and realized how ridiculous an idea it is to get a live orchestra to play this. did that really happen? and they left gaps and slowly played less and less of it. did they transcribe it to notation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 No I think he reunited a orchestra 20 years after they first performed. When the warmed up he realized the ferrite started falling off the musicians or something. So they just played until they score fell apart enough for the audience to decide it was time to skip straight to the free booze and snacks at the reception. Lasted about an hour. Also 9/11 and shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goiter Sanchez Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 No I think he reunited a orchestra 20 years after they first performed. When the warmed up he realized the ferrite started falling off the musicians or something. So they just played until they score fell apart enough for the audience to decide it was time to skip straight to the free booze and snacks at the reception. Lasted about an hour. Also 9/11 and shit. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 flol probably the best post in this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I don't really care about any degree of how he made the music - the thing that I think puts many of us here off is the fact that he's tried to sensationalize some pretty average ambient music by hyping up everything else BUT the music itself. When it was recorded, the format it was recorded on, how long it stayed unreleased, the whole 9/11 connection, the degradation of the format, etc etc. Certainly I could not have been the first person ever to ask the question "If these loops were so special before, why wait until the tapes were falling apart to even release them? Why even let the tapes get to that point of degradation at all, if it's something you made that you like and presumably want to preserve adequately?" Really in the end I think Basinski wants his sort of ordinary ambient music to speak some amount of untold volumes on the human condition, but for me (and probably a lot of others) it just gets boring after a few minutes. Keep in mind that I know we're discussing ambient music here, and that "boring" is a helluva word to throw around when it comes to minimalism, but I've tried and tried and tried again to see just what makes this stuff so special and every time, I just want to reach for that dial. Edit: For what it's worth, I am willing to bet that I'd love this stuff a whole lot more if there wasn't so much ego to be digested along with it. You know, like ambient music that isn't SAYING SOMETHING. Ambient music should just be. It simply...is. great post, especially coming from someone who's been listening to ambient probably as long or longer than I have. I personally don't even believe the technical aspect of how he made them that they were literally disintegrating tapes. I think he just made them sound lofi and probably purposefully fucked up the tapes himself (if they even are tapes at all, which based on all the other mythology surrounding him I'd even question this most basic detail) My final question that I'm mostly curious about is when you read about Basinksi online and in various music publications he's described as being this prolific influential artist from New York who's works and presence spanned over 2 decades, but then decided to release his debut physical release after 2 decades of work. Is there anyone who has familiarly of the NY experimental/drone/ambient scene that can vouch for this aspect of his back story? Could it be that he's a middle aged guy who came up with a decent record and never really did much music before that but pretended to? Or is it possible he's just a dude who created this mythology about himself to sell an ambient record. I mean the whole package.. not just the tapes.. not just the hilarious story about 9/11, etc but EVERYTHING. sit there and think about it for a minute, and if you can provide proof to the contrary i'd love to see it. I'm very open to being proven wrong on this, but until i do my bullshit detector is still going off like a Geiger counter at fukishima and if you really do face the possibility that it is all an elaborate hoax backstory for his persona, the story.. if fiction, could be argued as being part of the art itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 He went completely unnoticed for 20+ years, quietly doing his thing, which doesn't really fit the description of an egomaniac to me. has this been validated by any of the people he worked with or people who were involved in the local underground scene? I'm curious because it sounds a lot cooler to say on your debut album that you've been doing it for 20 years rather than 2-3 years, especially if you are as old as he is. I don't think you have to be an egomaniac to make up an elaborate back story for yourself that isn't true. ok wikipedia this is what it says, but again since i'm being very skeptical about this, where is the proof? the proof that any of these releases, starting in 1998 were actually made in the early 80s? His first release was Shortwave Music. Although created in 1983, it was first released on vinyl in a small edition in 1998 by Carsten Nicolai's Raster-Noton label. This was followed by Watermusic, self-released in 2000 on Basinski's 2062 Records. Another 2-disc work was Variations: A Movement in Chrome Primitive, 1980: it was finally released in 2004 by David Tibet on the Durtro/Die Stadt label. At the time this work was created, Basinski was experimenting with compositions for piano and tape loops. Throughout the 1980s, Basinski created a vast archive of experimental works using tape loop and delay systems, found sounds, and shortwave radio static. He was a member of many bands including Gretchen Langheld Ensemble and House Afire. In 1989, he opened his own performance space, "Arcadia". In the 1990s, he performed and produced records and intimate underground shows there for various NYC artists including Antony, Diamanda Galás, Rasputina, The Murmurs, and his own ad-hoc experimental electronic/improvisation band, Life on Mars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinski Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 not sure if there's proof of starting in the 80s, but there's proof of him doing it atleast since the early 90s. i think most of these loops were made to play in the background, like in hymns of oblivion live thingy, in his arcadia place, which opened in 1989. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinski Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 i also think peple take it a wrong way. i don't think it was ever said what the releases were made in the 80s, just the loops. which isn't really that unbelievable. vivian and ondine was recorded in 2008, DL in 2001. and i think antony hegarty confirmed his story, they worked together in the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 if you really sit back, light a cigar, pet your dog and kick your legs up you have to wonder if william basinski really exists at all... i mean, until some one can prove this i'm just going to stay inside and count my hr giger posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 existence is theory in itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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