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William Basinski - Disintegration Loops


Guest kyriakos

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lol dude, I've been to Arcadia before. It was an awesome event space, amazing old iron works building with these huge vaulted ceilings. the stage, semi-detached studio space and open area was perfect for having underground shows, i even have some flyers for ones from before my time (admittedly he could have just printed those at kinkos half an hour before I got there).

 

I've worked with reel to reel recording and find his explanation of the process perfectly reasonable. Coupled with that radiolab bit and the fact that he's done live performances with just reel to reels lends quite a bit of credibility to the story imo. There are also other artists who employ remarkably similar sounds which they too claim are from tape, such as the two concern albums. in effect, if it wasn't tape he kind of wasted his time since it would probably be a lot easier to actually fuck up a tape. He's also released numerous other obviously tape-based music so he's clearly adept with the medium. So...

 

his claim is that he was archiving old loops during the summer of 2001. I have not reason to attempt to deny this perfectly plausible event. I myself was literally making tracks all night before 9/11. so what?

 

as for the covers and the whole 9/11 this in general, just take it or leave it. I think the whole thing would be a lot cooler without the covers but whatever really.

lol dude, I've been to Arcadia before. It was an awesome event space, amazing old iron works building with these huge vaulted ceilings. the stage, semi-detached studio space and open area was perfect for having underground shows, i even have some flyers for ones from before my time (admittedly he could have just printed those at kinkos half an hour before I got there). There were also artists such as Antony who emerged from there and they too would have to be in on this part of the lie.

I've worked with reel to reel recording and find his explanation of the process perfectly reasonable. Coupled with that radiolab bit and the fact that he's done live performances with just reel to reels lends quite a bit of credibility to the story imo. There are also other artists who employ remarkably similar sounds which they too claim are from tape, such as the two concern albums. in effect, if it wasn't tape he kind of wasted his time since it would probably be a lot easier to actually fuck up a tape. He's also released numerous other obviously tape-based music so he's clearly adept with the medium. So...

his claim is that he was archiving old loops during the summer of 2001. I have not reason to attempt to deny this perfectly plausible event. I myself was literally making tracks all night before 9/11. so what?

as for the covers and the whole 9/11 this in general, just take it or leave it. I think the whole thing would be a lot cooler without the covers but whatever really.

lol dude, I've been to Arcadia before. It was an awesome event space, amazing old iron works building with these huge vaulted ceilings. the stage, semi-detached studio space and open area was perfect for having underground shows, i even have some flyers for ones from before my time (admittedly he could have just printed those at kinkos half an hour before I got there). There are also artists who openly played there like Antony who would have to be in on the lie.

I've worked with reel to reel recording and find his explanation of the process perfectly reasonable. Coupled with that radiolab bit and the fact that he's done live performances with just reel to reels lends quite a bit of credibility to the story imo. There are also other artists who employ remarkably similar sounds which they too claim are from tape, such as the two concern albums. in effect, if it wasn't tape he kind of wasted his time since it would probably be a lot easier to actually fuck up a tape. He's also released numerous other obviously tape-based music so he's clearly adept with the medium. So...

his claim is that he was archiving old loops during the summer of 2001. I have not reason to attempt to deny this perfectly plausible event. I myself was literally making tracks all night before 9/11. so what?

as for the covers and the whole 9/11 this in general, just take it or leave it. I think the whole thing would be a lot cooler without the covers but whatever really.

Omlol ios

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I'm semi trolling, but I appreciate the response. I wasn't doubting the. Existence of the space I know people who've been. I'm talking about his whole 80s history, is there anybody who saw him play back in the 80s in that space? That's the million dollar question

 

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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sorry about that crazy post, dunno wtf happened.

 

in the end, I really enjoy the music and am far less interested in the backstory. if it was done entirely in abelton cudos for him really, he did a through job there.

 

I've had some really liberating and moving listening experience with a number of his CDs and that's what matters most to me. I don't think the backstory is a hoax but if it came out it was I am sure I'd still think the music was awesome.

Edit: it would be pretty fucking badass if the whole thing was totally made up. Lol

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THERE ARE PICTURES OF TAPE IN THE INSIDE COVER OF THIS NEW REISSUE

 

QED

 

I dunno, I am actually kind of excited to hear this now. Is it crazy that I’ve never heard The Disintegration Loops before?

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without a single shred of evidence behind this "well known" fact why would you believe this?

 

it's more likely to you that basinski had a plan...and that plan was to create a series of loops carefully crafted to sound like tape disintegration, even going so far as to put in actual sounds of tape artifacts into the recordings...and then use 9/11 as a thematic competent...and this whole big hoax was far what purpose? to be a marginally successful artist who doesn't make enough money from music to live off of?

 

btw, his hoax also would have to include him getting npr in on the exploitation of 9/11...since they ran a segment on radiolab in which some one went to his house and he played them disintegration loops...and they sounded *exactly* like the sounds on the CDs. so, npr must have just pretended to go over to his house? or they just played some carefully doctored digital piece instead of the actual tape loop they claimed they were hearing while viewing with their own eyes?

 

uh, lol?

 

of course shallow rewards guy would spread this rumor bc his entire beef with basinski is that he "appropriated" 9/11, it serves his purpose to claim basinski did so in some New York loft artist guy way as some kind of cheap, insincere ploy.

 

I mean, i just really don't understand what benefit would come from getting people to fall for this exactly. it's not like basinski is even remotely as well known and praised as shallow reward guy's darling daniel lopatin. so, this whole big hoax is for what purpose? and after being in the public eye for a decade why is there no evidence that this is a hoax?

 

@john e

 

 

was this addressed to me? or to that shallow rewards dude?

 

i think what he was saying (the shallow rewards dude) is that basinski made some shitty ambient loop music, then decided to "sell it" with the story that it was directly correlated to the 9/11 attacks- because he was listening to the tapes as the world trade center was coming down and (coincidentally) the tapes were also disintegrating

 

so without the story, the music doesn't hold up. his evidence is that he's hearing post effects that he challenges aren't the disintegration that basinki claims.

 

personally, i've never heard said tapes in their entirety to have an opinion because ambient music ain't my thing

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yeah exactly, the 9/11 thing even if you separate it from the potential fakeness of the concept is pretty lol-worthy to be honest. Now the 9/11 truther-fag inside me would actually be excited if it was some kind of commentary on how the buildings literally disintegrated and pulverized themselves defying the laws of physics. So this just shows how all over the place I am mentally, don't take anything I say on this forum too seriously ever. <--- words of advice (unless it's how to reverse engineer autechre)

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without a single shred of evidence behind this "well known" fact why would you believe this?

 

it's more likely to you that basinski had a plan...and that plan was to create a series of loops carefully crafted to sound like tape disintegration, even going so far as to put in actual sounds of tape artifacts into the recordings...and then use 9/11 as a thematic competent...and this whole big hoax was far what purpose? to be a marginally successful artist who doesn't make enough money from music to live off of?

 

btw, his hoax also would have to include him getting npr in on the exploitation of 9/11...since they ran a segment on radiolab in which some one went to his house and he played them disintegration loops...and they sounded *exactly* like the sounds on the CDs. so, npr must have just pretended to go over to his house? or they just played some carefully doctored digital piece instead of the actual tape loop they claimed they were hearing while viewing with their own eyes?

 

uh, lol?

 

of course shallow rewards guy would spread this rumor bc his entire beef with basinski is that he "appropriated" 9/11, it serves his purpose to claim basinski did so in some New York loft artist guy way as some kind of cheap, insincere ploy.

 

I mean, i just really don't understand what benefit would come from getting people to fall for this exactly. it's not like basinski is even remotely as well known and praised as shallow reward guy's darling daniel lopatin. so, this whole big hoax is for what purpose? and after being in the public eye for a decade why is there no evidence that this is a hoax?

 

@john e

 

was this addressed to me? or to that shallow rewards dude?

 

i think what he was saying (the shallow rewards dude) is that basinski made some shitty ambient loop music, then decided to "sell it" with the story that it was directly correlated to the 9/11 attacks- because he was listening to the tapes as the world trade center was coming down and (coincidentally) the tapes were also disintegrating

 

so without the story, the music doesn't hold up. his evidence is that he's hearing post effects that he challenges aren't the disintegration that basinki claims.

 

personally, i've never heard said tapes in their entirety to have an opinion because ambient music ain't my thing

my post was directed at john e actually.

 

I don't think the shallow rewards guy offered any evidence at all about what he was hearing, other than claiming he thought the reverb was cheesy. he didn't provide any kind of examination of the sounds and how they clearly aren't tape effects. he mostly just complained about basinski's celebrity and how he "appropriated" 9/11. which is fine, if that pisses some one off I get that.

 

in the video the shallow rewards guy gushes over ecco jams and waxes philosophical about a slowed down chorus from a new kids on the block song, so imo his beef with basinski's loops on a music level is pretty weak. I would appreciate the critique more if he made an effort to explain why appropriating new kids material is good music with philosophical/cultural value but appropriating muzak and 9/11 is not. his video doesn't explain that at all, perhaps bc he thinks it's obvious, idk. I get the feeling though that he's just offended by the 9/11 thing and new kids samples are a safer, more acceptable territory.

 

I'm just confused about how john e is so convinced basinski's entire life story is fabricated. I still think basinski's music is great and disintegration loops aren't even his best shit.

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I don't blame that Shallow Rewards guy for taking his blog down. He was such a silly dude. This grown man groaning about music like it's some genocide happening in a third world country or something. Don't base all your authority and ego on something as subjective as music and act like you're super important. Get a real job. He's one of those old guard critics that relied on having super exclusive access to more music, but now we have the internet.

 

Disintegration Loops is okay without the theme added to it.

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His other releases with all other different "back stories" prove that it's just marketing bullshit. I mean cmon, "Nocturne" was supposedly created in 1979, so is "A Red Score In Tile". "Vivian" was created when he found a lunchbox of ancient tape-loops. He found it outside while walking from work, FFS.

 

It's all there only to differentiate him from the other ambient musical artists, and it worked.

 

It's a shtick, but it doesn't take out the quality of his music.

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basinski claimed he found a lunchbox of tapes while walking from work? could you post a link to that?

 

his "different" back stories are not in fact different at all: in the 70s and 80s he experimented with tape loops, held performances in new york but found he couldn't make it and became discouraged that he ever would and basically gave up trying. in the late 90s and early 00s he began to revisit this old works and found that he had completely forgot how lush they were and started self-releasing them.

 

i'm really confused how people find this so "obviously" false, as though this isn't the most normal fucking thing in the world. guess what? I have shoe boxes of tapes in my closet from 15 years ago. they were never commercially released. what if started digitizing these and pressing up some cdrs? TOTAL SHTICK

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I've enjoyed the Disintegration Loops for a long time, but I never even knew about this whole 9/11 connection/conspiracy or whatever until a few months back. Shame it's distorted so many people's first impressions. Just try and separate the two, I guess.

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it's an intriguing issue, whether true or made up. it used to be the case that artists would take up issues directly in their works, exploring them, expressing their outrage and so on. we used to have intellectuals penning novels about war (very famously Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir wrote explicitly about their experiences on war and political terror for instance), painters would directly depict the horrors of their time (Guernica), and we're all familiar with countless songs and films that approach these themes in numerous ways (the allegorical approach of Salo or the more explicit sentimental Shindler's List).

 

I consider basinski's "appropriation" very much in this same vein. It's his personal perspective, a reflection of his experience as an artist, just like the examples I mentioned. he was listening to his neglected recordings, the remnants of musical experiments from another era in his life, and found that they had fallen victim to decay. at first, this was a personal and artistic tragedy; here he was attempting to archive these pieces, to preserve them, and they were partly destroyed. but as he listened to the loops and heard how the physical decay actually created something rare and beautiful in his ears, he awoke to a new way of listening and found hope in disintegration. it should be obvious how this experience would be an incredible coping mechanism for someone who had lived in NYC for so long and saw the attacks of 9/11 with his own eyes. basinski's short and simple liner note in the first disc eloquently conveys this. this is why I think his work is part of a long tradition of artists coping with the violence of their era directly through their art.

 

tbh, it may not even be essential that his personal story is true; perhaps it's true in a greater sense which is evident in the way so many people have found comfort and liberation through his works? Idk really...

 

it's confusing to me why so many people seem to be so outraged about his "appropriation" of 9/11 when kind of thing used to be so common. people used to look to artists for truth of any kind in a mad world, and I think basinski's disintegration loops strike me as a genuine personal and artistic expression. we seem to live in such a conservative time that is so often inclined to petulant controversies (Miley Cyrus anyone?). it's all just banal distraction.

 

tl;dr: just enjoy the music

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basinski claimed he found a lunchbox of tapes while walking from work? could you post a link to that?

 

 

 

It's on his website http://www.mmlxii.com/ I'm sorry but the guy just tries too hard to create a mythical aspect to his creation. At least for some artists (BOC, Aphex) you sense a true artist' creation between all the idiosyncrasy, but this is just a schitck.

 

 

 

“In may of 2008 I was in my studio in NY preparing for a concert at Issue Project Room. I realized I had been touring for a year and was still touring the same piece I had performed there the year before. I was interrupted by a call from my youngest brother, Patrick. As we chatted, he told me that his wife, andrea was overdue with their daughter, Vivian. I replied in sympathy that “Vivian” was a movie-star name and that I imagined with a name like that, she would have people waiting on her for her entire life. I got back to work and found yet another lunchbox of ancient tape-loops to go through for possible inclusion in the new piece. I came across the main theme and thought…well, this is gorgeous; let’s see if we can use this to coax Viv to come out. I went through the rest of them and found another dozen or so that mixed well used randomly, just under the threshold.

The next night I performed the piece at Issue with their 16 channel hemispherical speaker system set to move the sounds randomly around the room as if waves in a pool. We all had a really good time. It was mesmerizing. The next day I got word that Vivian had been born and…my cousin, Terence’s first granddaughter, Ondine had been born as well. I couldn’t think of a more beautiful title for this piece than to name it after these two beautiful girls.This version was recorded with microphones and two Norelco tape decks live in my studio in Los Angeles in one take in September 2008. A version of this piece was commissioned by Lauren Bon and the Metabolic Studio of Los Angeles for her extraordinary project, Strawberry Flag, at the Veterans Administration Hospital in Los Angeles. It has been an honor to be a part of this wonderful project.”

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I'm sorry but at no point does he claim to have found a lunchbox of tapes on the street while walking to work. he's referring to working in his home studio where he is looking for a new loops in his collection, some of which are kept in a lunchbox.

 

the rest of that little write up just says he named the piece after his niece and cousin.

 

again, a completely mundane and perfectly normal story. but for some reason it is "shtick" for you, even though you've embellished the tale with added details about him finding a lunchbox of music outside on the street? and you unfavorably compare his "shtick" to rdj who has made so many utterly ridiculous claims about how his music is made that he has a reputation for being a total piss taker? lol dude.

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I'm just confused about how john e is so convinced basinski's entire life story is fabricated.

 

I've just always found more than hint of bullshit in all the press I've read about him, his 'legacy' of starting an underground 'ambient collective' in NY during the 80s to me just sounded like a lie. Personally I'm surprised that in all my time of listening to ambient music and being in the experimental scene I had literally not heard his name until the Disintegration Loops, and all of the sudden he's somehow a really important dude with this long history, as if he's been working so hard at this for so long that Loops was like his magnum opus. Call it a gut feeling, call it intuition about bullshit/press spin. I don't know, but if you don't have a problem with his unprovable and suspicious back story that's cool.

 

I completely agree with Philip Glass, strip away his seniority (an 80s ambient NY art scene pioneer) strip away his technique and what are you left with musically? Not much really at all to distinguish it or differentiate it from hundreds of other ambient musicians whov'e been doing it for longer and better. I can understand that an emotional resonance with his music can't be denied, but beyond the way it makes you feel can you list any adjectives or descriptive language that sets his music apart from or makes it in any way 'greater' than the people doing similar things for decades? If the music is what matters, what is it about his music that is truly amazing?

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John e:

 

well, your suspicion lies directly with the misrepresentation of music journalists and hype rather than with the man himself, which to me is curious since you are generally really incredulous about the media but for some reason believe everything they say about basinski. basinski's story is not at all what you've described. he never had an "ambient collective" in the 80s or at any time. he had a sweet loft where he had numerous parties and shows, some of which may have been ambient but that certainly was not the over-arching purpose. the disintegration loops are not the magnum opus at the end of a long, important career. as I explained above, he experimented with loops in the late 70s and early 80s but nothing came of it. in NYC during that time he simply never made an impression. from what I understand he more or less stopped making tape music some time in the 80s. So the disintegration loops were not a culmination of anything, he explicitly states that he had completely forgotten what was on all those tapes and "rediscovered" them when he got a nice computer and started digitizing his stuff. your notion that he's claimed to be some kind of legendary artist of the ambient underground who finally released his masterwork in 2002 is just incorrect.

 

As for what is there "musically" i don't see much of an argument that there's nothing to distinguish it.anyway, I don't recall him claiming he is doing some new and amazing musically, he just makes lush loop music. it's not a revolution.

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That Ott video was mostly cringeworthy, but on the plus side, I really dug all of the ambient music examples he spliced into the video (both the “bad” and “good” ones). Gonna check those out.

 

I dunno, I have only listened to one Disintegration Loop so far in my life, but it DOES sound like tape to me. Certainly there is some post production, added reverb (okay—maybe a little too much reverb on 1.1 and 2.1), and what sounds to me like several loops running and phasing in and out—but has anyone ever claimed otherwise?

 

I dunno, all of this is only a kerfluffle if you really care about “context” for music (as in, OMG IS THIS LEGIT TAPE, or, OMG IS THIS LEGIT COVERED IN WTC DUST), which I do not. Just listen to the sounds?

 

It seems like some pleasant ambient music to me. Made by a guy who is probably a pretentious douche IRL, but… so is everybody?

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I try not to let preconceived notions of the artist's identity clutter music like this, though with some artists this is a difficult feat. With Basinski the bottom line for me is that I enjoy his music. He isn't rapping about how great he is over his loops so I can more easily separate his personality (fabricated or not) from his music, though it should be noted that I really enjoy the person that he purports to be and would love to have him over for dinner.

After dinner we would go out for drinks and karaoke and he would perform the entire Hymns of Oblivion suite shirtless and everyone would leave except for me and a few others.

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Personally I'm surprised that in all my time of listening to ambient music and being in the experimental scene I had literally not heard his name until the Disintegration Loops, and all of the sudden he's somehow a really important dude with this long history, as if he's been working so hard at this for so long that Loops was like his magnum opus.

 

with all your time of listening to ambient music and being in the experimental scene, you could have figured out that he released Shortwavemusic on Raster Noton in 1998.

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