depression

[LimpyLoo]

The worst part of depression (IMO) is the feeling that it's gonna last forever. That the ice will never thaw and the sun will never breach the clouds.

 

Whenever I'm depressed I try to imagine a future where I'm doing the things I want to do with my life, and that seems to lighten the weight of soul-crushing depression a little bit.

[LimpyLoo]

All the Sapolsky talk in the parasite thread made me remember this:

 

 

 

edit: I know 52 minutes is a bit of a commitment, but watching this dude talk--about anything, really--is a revelation.

Edited April 3, 2014 by LimpyLoo

[Guest fiznuthian]

All the Sapolsky talk in the parasite thread made me remember this:

 

 

 

edit: I know 52 minutes is a bit of a commitment, but watching this dude talk--about anything, really--is a revelation.

 

Sick! I know what i'm watching tonight.. I have been obsessed with watching lectures lately, finding a lot of them on reddit.com/r/lectures. I was running out of new stuff to watch.

[Berk]

Could we have cover photos for threads please?

 

 

 

[luke viia]

 

"You're obliged to pretend respect for people and institutions you think absurd. You live attached in a cowardly fashion to moral and social conventions you despise, condemn and know lack all foundation. It is that permanent contradiction between your ideas and desires and all the dead formalities of your civilization which makes you sad, troubled and unbalanced. In that intolerable conflict you lose all joy of life and all feeling of personality, because at every moment they suppress and restrain and check the free play of your powers. That's the poisoned and mortal wound of the civilized world."

 

 

lol

 

sad and true

 

but lol

 

("the torture garden" looks like an interesting book btw, might have to pick that up)

[gmanyo]

#emotional #crying #verysad #sadboys

 

[Guest fiznuthian]

Just watched that Sapolsky lecture. Absolutely amazing.
To anyone who skimped because it's 50 minutes, you should go back and watch it. It's a fantastic overview of what's known about depression at this time.

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

The Sapolsky lecture was very enlightening - thanks for posting. I recently lost my best friend to depression

Not related to scones - I have to say that before one of you jerks do. :-)

. That info is helping make a little more sense of it all.

[usagi]

as in... they died? or you just stopped being friends?

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

He died - suicide.

[LimpyLoo]

Shit. Sorry to hear, mate.

[usagi]

sorry, man.

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

Thanks. I can't stress enough how important it is for someone to get help before it gets to that point. I'll stop here before I start to depress you guys!

[chenGOD]

That sapolsky lecture was brilliant. It shed a lot of light on my own battles with dealing with my divorce and subsequent life.

[marf]

saw that vid years ago and he really explains it so well

[jhonny]

Just want to say that I love you all WATMM. Peace and love.

[chim]

All the Sapolsky talk in the parasite thread made me remember this:

 

 

 

edit: I know 52 minutes is a bit of a commitment, but watching this dude talk--about anything, really--is a revelation.

 

What an amazing lecture and what a great personality. I will definitely look up more of his talks.

 

Apart from nailing the biological nature of depression, it's a great breakdown on the aspects involved, but something really surprised me: his mentions of the limbic system and the anterior cingulate cortex.

 

I recently read some info from neuroscientific studies on the effects of Zen meditation on the brain. I don't have the sources on hand right now so you'll have to take my word for it, and I'm not a neuroscientist so this will be greatly simplified, but basically the studies showed that Zazen primarily affects three parts of the brain; the frontal lobe, the limbic system and the anterior cingulate cortex.

 

The study showed that when one practices Zazen a minimum of 12 minutes a day, the frontal lobe and anterior cingulate cortex are strengthened and the limbic system is basically put on the backburner. As the limbic system is responsible for primal, emotional fight/flight responses and such, this has an effect on reactionary behavior, lessening primal instincts and allowing us to respond from a different state of awareness.

 

This drastically affects states of anxiety and depression, and the strenghtening of the anterior cingulate cortex in particular will affect addictive/dependent behavior.

 

The anterior cingulate cortex is interesting because it involves empathic/compassionate behavior as well - it's a high-tech, recently evolved part of the brain. And with the strengthening of the frontal lobe, we are able to choose and act from logical conclusions rather than emotionally-driven motives.

 

I already found this information interesting in relation to my own experiences with meditation, but it's worth bringing up in light of that lecture.

 

Aside from this, there are studies on the effects of peripheral vs. fovial vision on activity in specific brain regions (related to how the eyes are used in zazen) - basically, focused viewing in a small area for prolonged times (like computer usage) correlates with anxiety and depression, which is the complete opposite of the neutral, wide view of open-eye meditation practice (not mentioning the fact that after an initial period of sitting practice, zazen can be carried out in activity). And I haven't even brought up on the effects of abdomen-focused breathing on the enteric nervous system, relationships between posture and brain activity/chemistry, etc. There's a lot of stuff out there.

 

Zen evolved long before the advances of neuroscience, but it's an ancient well-known fact that meditation practice develops something called joriki, which roughly translates to self-power and means the ability to respond appropriately to any situation with calm and without having to collect one's wits.

 

There's a funny anecdote related to this from the Ming dynasty period:

 

There was a Lord [daimyo] who learned Zen from Toko Shin'etsu. One New Year's Day, when the Master visited Lord Mitsukuni to exchange New Year's greetings with him, Lord Mitsukuni said, "It is New Year's Day today. Please let me present you with a cup of sake." So saying, Lord Mitsukuni took out a large cup and had one of his servants fill it with sake to the brim [and handed it to the Master]. Just then, "Bang!" rang out from the adjoining room. A gun had been purposely loaded beforehand with a blank cartridge and then fired. The Zen Master, without showing the slightest dismay, drank up the sake from the cup in calm silence. Lord Mitsukuni acted embarrassed and apologized, "It is customary to fire a gun in a warrior's house. Please excuse me." The Master returned the cup to Lord Mitsukuni in silent acknowledgement of his apology.

 

When the servant filled Lord Mitsukuni's cup with sake, the Zen Master suddenly gave one loud shout, "Katz!" Taken by surprise, Lord Mitsukuni spilled his sake in spite of himself. The Zen Master said in apparent seriousness, "It is customary for Zen men to give a single shout of 'Katz!' Please excuse me."

[beerwolf]

Beerwolf Good Advice Broadcast

 

It's saturday night, get off this thread and have a beer with a good friend and sunday morning rise early and go for a nice brisk walk

 

with some Aphex ambience on the mp3

 

Beerwolf over and out

 

Edited April 5, 2014 by beerwolf

[LimpyLoo]

Here is lecture #1 in a series of 30ish. Watch them all, seriously. The way he weaves all the stuff together is really amazing.

 

Edited April 5, 2014 by LimpyLoo

[goDel]

Aside from this, there are studies on the effects of peripheral vs. fovial vision on activity in specific brain regions (related to how the eyes are used in zazen) - basically, focused viewing in a small area for prolonged times (like computer usage) correlates with anxiety and depression, which is the complete opposite of the neutral, wide view of open-eye meditation practice (not mentioning the fact that after an initial period of sitting practice, zazen can be carried out in activity). And I haven't even brought up on the effects of abdomen-focused breathing on the enteric nervous system, relationships between posture and brain activity/chemistry, etc. There's a lot of stuff out there.

 

Interesting stuff, chim! In a way I think this idea could be generalised to a broader perspective. Apart from vision, this would count for the entire experience. Perhaps this directly points back to the Zen thing, but I think I can keep things at a far less spiritual level.

 

Thing is, that apart from looking at a computer screen all day, nowadays almost anything has some kind of focus such that the broader picture doesn't get enough attention. The short term decision making in businesses and politics, for instance. This is not just about vision, but also about the experience of time in general, to name another dimension. Many things are dealt with in a much shorter timespan than they used to. So, to what extent do people still have a peripheral perspective on time nowadays? And were there times where people had a better perspective on their peripheral context?

 

It's not that everyone has too much focus, but on average it might be the case. I dunno.

 

Those Sapolsky lectures are awesome, btw. Definitely stuff to broaden the perspective. ;D

[autopilot]

any of you depressed people tried ketamine?

[Guest]

I've never done ketamine. I've heard that it can help curing a depression, but only in a clinical setting. I've tried self-medication and it only made me feel worse, like I was evading my problems.

 

My depression stemmed from overthinking. An overly dependant clinging to the idea that my sense of self-worth was constructed purely and only by the thoughts constructed in my mind. Tolle Eckhart opened my view on this. Being present is all it takes to break through this never-ending cycle of regrets from the past, and fear of the future. That, and getting out and doing stuff, combined with acknowledging the fact that salvation lies within. It feels good, that place in my abdomen where *it* lies.

 

All it takes is to become aware of the constant maelstrom of thoughts, and how it completely dominates my being. The mind is a useful tool, sure, but it is by no means all there is to me.

 

I will check that Sapolsky dude. I am btw not denying that depression does not have a biological component to it, and what I described above purely was what helped me break through my endless cycle of thoughts that crushed my self-worth.

[autopilot]

well i dunno how you define "clinical setting", but for me a single ketamine trip with a friend who's a good listener allowed me to let go of years worth of pain i didn't know had been lurking in my subconscious and subtly affecting all my moods/actions. it's like all the introspection of a good shroom/acid trip but without any of the sensory overload that comes from percieving 12 layers of reality at once. (meaning it was lacking in the visual/sonic trip department but in the emotional/mental analysis department it was top notch)

[Guest]

Interesting.. I'm a bit scared off by any drugs tbh, so I generally discard them. That's mostly to do with my past with them, though.

 

I am glad that it was worthwhile. Have you been able to integrate the experience in your present lifestyle?

[autopilot]

absolutely. trips basically serve as a "level up", to use a videogame metaphor, and the life i lead afterward each one is always one of increased self-awareness, lucidity, and present mindfulness.

granted set & setting is key tho, if you're fucking with psychedelics at a black metal concert or while watching the walking dead you're not going to get anything out of it but nightmares.