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Vaporwave


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I feel like this is worth posting right about now, especially @ 13:40 where I think he's dead on about the earnest but misguided ire over Rihanna's use of Jerome LOL's work and seapunk in general, 16:20 is fucking dead-on imo:

 

http://youtu.be/SgD79cWde0I

 

 

ok, lol

i can't believe i just watched that whole thing, i'm such a hip bastard :facepalm:

 

but i liked his bit about about no-single-90's to remember. and what he says at 14:20 or so made some sense. if you're going to put some shit you really believe in on the internet, and it takes off, you might need to be ready to be co-opted, like it or not... i wonder if people will, on average, start to recreate "scenes" as they were, locally, before the internet came about in full force... like a more active approach to being underground or staying local.

 

i'm a fuckin' square though, no idea how that stuff works

Usually that type of thing pisses me off, and in his own way, he is, or at least could legitimately be accused of trying to "get in front" of something, but the way he talks about it is so fluid and considered. I watched the whole thing too. Hahaha. Also, while it does sort of make him look like he is trying to brand himself with the video, you have to give it to him for actually appearing when most "music writers" view obscurity as a must. His words have a lot more power because he is speaking right into the camera. I would like to have a conversation with him. If I used twitter regularly, I would follow him, but for now I will just browse his feed.

 

He is in a different camp than I am though. I am concerned with pop music 0%, truly. And I do not think that there is any valid way to appropriate Rihanna or Adele into another form of music. People always say this for every decade, but the amount of actual musical talent and innovation in the industry right now is at an all time low because of the instant state of things. It kills everything. So I have never enjoyed sick distorted Rihanna remixes. I have never thought it was cool. I can't help but like Salem when I hear it, but I never bought it at the time, and did not participate in witch house or chillwave, though I was highly aware of chillwave and it drove me crazy.

 

And all of that said, the real truth is that this angst about genre branding and authenticity is strictly digital. Sure, Urban Outfitters plays whatever is streaming on Pitchfork/Gorilla vs Bear/Quietus/XLR8R, but all that the majority of shoppers and even employees are aware of is a general vagueness about summer in California, the beach, navajo colors, and basic geometric shapes.

 

~~

 

Take someone really popular, like Flying Lotus, who has garnered acclaim from many places. I was in LA a year ago, and I met up with a friend from instagram (for real), along with one of his friends. My friend's friend was a real intellihipster- fashion, philosophy, music- he got most of the marks for being in the hipster elite.

 

So I was sort of reluctant to ask him, since in my mind it had been kind of played out, but I eventually asked him about the LA beat scene, Flying Lotus and all that. He didn't know who Flying Lotus was. My mind was blown, and it made me realize that, even today, when cnn/npr/nytimes are writing and interviewing the musicians of "bass music," a term only used by writers who are just listening to it for the first time, the odds of running into someone who actually likes the music you do is rare. You have to be somewhere as concentrated as Austin (you have to be ON congress or in Farewell Books), or Williamsburg, and even there, you are still 10x more likely to run into someone who likes whatever current strain of indie rock is happening than someone who owns, at a bare minimum, the Warp essentials. Sure you know a few in college, but after college, forget it.

 

The real existence and awareness of these things is blown 1000x out of scale by social media sharing. And wherever a real scene is, more than half to 90% of people are there to get drunk/laid/recognized for their skills on their Rebel T3i, and the 10% who are creating the scene, at least half of them still see getting drunk/laid/recognized for their fashion as a perk.

i really can't stand this shallow rewards guy, his whole delivery really drives home a lot of what I dislike about music journalism. his reviews are merely a dumping ground for his opinions and cluttered knowledge, which he expresses with a smug arrogance sprinkled with occasional braggadocio, name-dropping and irrelevant technical commentary ("two thousand, two k, two kilohertz"). i always get the sense he's trying to engage in some kind of take down of his subjects which is never truly accomplished and he attempts to validate this negativity with occasional remarks on stuff he likes, gear he's familiar with, etc to create the picture that he knows what he's talking about and his opinions are knowledge. he does a pretty piss poor job actually contextualizing his subjects in an interesting and informative way, when he name drops artists or technics he never follows through with some kind of unique insight or compelling argument, it's always overwhelmed by his bitching. he seems to lack a truly unique perspective and coupled with a complete lack of humility he just comes across like an annoying twat. he radiates it in fact. his hostility is present in the look in his eyes, the tone of his voice. and the copious amounts of gel in his hair.

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I can see how you could say that. But there are music journalists, and it is a viable industry, one I have always hated, but it's still there and it influences me from time to time. Tons of stuff he says makes me cringe, using the term "kids" so often, but I can't help but watch when he takes down pitchfork. A lot of the music journalist attitude comes through, but I think he calls BS pretty well.

 

And as far as humility goes, I think he is in the top percentile for music journalists.

Edited by sheatheman
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I'd just like to say one last thing on this tangent and then I promise I won't fuck up the vapor ware thread anymore.

 

I've watched some more of ott's videos this afternoon just to educate myself further on what this guy is all about and I found that when he does the more straightforward history videos he's actually quite good and arranges his presentation quite well. I think he just flounders when he's trying to do something more critical, like he looses touch and his presentation gets infected with a smug vibe.

 

I'm sorry for this interruption.

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i feel a bit daft posting that bc i know how much you like the guy, josh. let's just say his videos do not help me along my personal explorations of music. to each his own though, I would still dock w u

 

Sitting on the dock of the bay...

 

Not at all man, anyone can get pretty stoked when they find a commentator, author, journalist, etc. who really speaks to them and find themselves automatically agreeing with them. Chris Ott is one of those cases for me, and it's nice to step back and ask yourself "ok, what's bias about his perspective? How is he incorrect or completely wrong?" In this case, I actually liked Disintegration Loops, and really agree with more on it's skewed acclaim, not the objective merits of the release. Hoax or not, 9/11 has become part of it and vice-versa, and I personally have no moral issue with that. Things like that happen, you can't change it.

 

He said this on YT

 

 

 

Of course it is, but you know I actually like that, I like the idea of faking-it-'til-you-make-it, particularly with respect to "fine art" and "downtown" NY celeb hype culture. Oddly I'm very supportive of Basinski there, it's the idea that people are taking him seriously, with po-faced, pious adoration for his situationism...my frustration is about the laziness of the critical response.

 

Shallow Rewards' main focus, especially his twitter account, is being super critical of other music journalists. It's pissy though often funny (he has this very WATMM-y joke about Grimes recently). He's coming from the last of the pre-internet writers and was part of online music criticism from the start.

 

I was also going to say (I see you mentioned it) I actually find his "positive" writing more enjoyable: the shoegaze videos and his accounts of 80s and 90s pop-rock are pretty well-informed. Eventually I'd like to read his e-books and 33 1/3 book Joy Division.

 

I myself always try not to get bogged down mentally with cynicism and skepticism. So that said, I like his stuff, but yeah I completely get the negative reaction. It's warranted. You can relish and respect angry take-downs but you can't sustain them upon further pondering. I rather just shrug my shoulders and listen to something else.

Edited by joshuatx
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Arrrgghh i can't stop listening to

 

a1908442962_2.jpg

 

and

 

a0613377407_2.jpg

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So. Fucking. Good.

 

So cold and warm at the same time.

So blue and green.

So tasty and yet so stale.

So fake, but so real.

So mundane, but so surreal.

Edited by Lane Visitor
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i feel a bit daft posting that bc i know how much you like the guy, josh. let's just say his videos do not help me along my personal explorations of music. to each his own though, I would still dock w u

 

Sitting on the dock of the bay...

 

Not at all man, anyone can get pretty stoked when they find a commentator, author, journalist, etc. who really speaks to them and find themselves automatically agreeing with them. Chris Ott is one of those cases for me, and it's nice to step back and ask yourself "ok, what's bias about his perspective? How is he incorrect or completely wrong?" In this case, I actually liked Disintegration Loops, and really agree with more on it's skewed acclaim, not the objective merits of the release. Hoax or not, 9/11 has become part of it and vice-versa, and I personally have no moral issue with that. Things like that happen, you can't change it.

 

He said this on YT

 

 

 

Of course it is, but you know I actually like that, I like the idea of faking-it-'til-you-make-it, particularly with respect to "fine art" and "downtown" NY celeb hype culture. Oddly I'm very supportive of Basinski there, it's the idea that people are taking him seriously, with po-faced, pious adoration for his situationism...my frustration is about the laziness of the critical response.[/size]

Shallow Rewards' main focus, especially his twitter account, is being super critical of other music journalists. It's pissy though often funny (he has this very WATMM-y joke about Grimes recently). He's coming from the last of the pre-internet writers and was part of online music criticism from the start.

 

I was also going to say (I see you mentioned it) I actually find his "positive" writing more enjoyable: the shoegaze videos and his accounts of 80s and 90s pop-rock are pretty well-informed. Eventually I'd like to read his e-books and 33 1/3 book Joy Division.

 

I myself always try not to get bogged down mentally with cynicism and skepticism. So that said, I like his stuff, but yeah I completely get the negative reaction. It's warranted. You can relish and respect angry take-downs but you can't sustain them upon further pondering. I rather just shrug my shoulders and listen to something else.

I watched all the shallow rewards vids on YouTube today ( so much for working on tracks and becoming a badass) Overall i thought they were really great and informative, he seems like a genuine music lover. I found the basinski thing somewhat incoherent, like i couldn't really find the point but whatever, it's often pretty difficult to be sharp when you're critiquing something. it's really hard to stay focused or something. but I was most pleased with the other videos (except he's so amazingly wrong to not rate slowdive) so I was wrong to be so dismissive earlier.

 

but yeah, vaporwave. it's like, lush and stuff.

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This is great, it was on my radar but after reading this hopelessly miserable review I felt like I had to listen to it. Naturally I really, really liked it. (Objectively it's one of the best I've heard in terms of quality and execution) You like have to come up with a irrational delusional reason to not like this if you like vaporwave in general. Besides the apt Kuedo nod all she does is bitch about how she likes vaporwave but that this is too late in the game and bandwagon-y YET:

 

1. it's not at all

2. every damn critical point she makes can literally be applied to any vaporwave release ever

 

Fucking bullshit "take-down" reviews...

 

 

don't get me wrong, i love a good take down. just gets a bit shticky ya know?

 

Yes, yes they do! Anyway this is great and lush and shit:

 

tumblr_muing2mkoA1s9robno1_1280.jpg

 

Since it's a local label (and artist) I'll have to check my local record store again to see if a copy is still floating around. It's on spotify and here of course:

 

http://holodeckrecords.bandcamp.com/album/vaporware-hd010


Also lol, this lane seems visited...

 

 

 

Revivalist electronic music from the recent past has accustomed us to a vision of the retro-future as a world where ruthless technocrats count their billions while listening to digitized Kenny G. “Last Night in Cyberia” is Vaporware’s best example: combining a lazy, New Age/smooth jazz melody with the dry clatter of guns, it inadvertently brings the image of Patrick Bateman to mind.
Edited by joshuatx
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This is great, it was on my radar but after reading this hopelessly miserable review I felt like I had to listen to it. Naturally I really, really liked it. (Objectively it's one of the best I've heard in terms of quality and execution) You like have to come up with a irrational delusional reason to not like this if you like vaporwave in general. Besides the apt Kuedo nod all she does is bitch about how she likes vaporwave but that this is too late in the game and bandwagon-y YET:

 

1. it's not at all

2. every damn critical point she makes can literally be applied to any vaporwave release ever

 

Fucking bullshit "take-down" reviews...

 

 

 

 

Revivalist electronic music from the recent past has accustomed us to a vision of the retro-future as a world where ruthless technocrats count their billions while listening to digitized Kenny G. “Last Night in Cyberia” is Vaporware’s best example: combining a lazy, New Age/smooth jazz melody with the dry clatter of guns, it inadvertently brings the image of Patrick Bateman to mind.

 

 

She is someone who has never listened to new age jazz, because it is dissimilar to smooth jazz. I know from owning numerous tapes/cds/digis of each. The progression is a 4th (Maj7) to a 3rd (min7), which is one of the most common progressions of all time. Not that it seems so common there.

 

The reason taking down critics is so satisfying is because they do nothing but detract. They think they are creating content or helping people understand, but most of them are just a negative influence. I don't hate her though. I'm glad she has a job, or works for free.

 

Also, this ranks as an atypical vaporwave release. The genre can allow for lots of stuff to bleed into it. I would be kind of happy though, for people to stop using the term, so the moronic critics out there will think it's gone, when really it has just barely shifted or expanded.

 

Arrrgghh i can't stop listening to

 

a1908442962_2.jpg

 

My FAV Ultra track is this:

 

http://ultra1.bandcamp.com/track/plaza-stream

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^^ Josh, lol that's crazy you stumbled into that description (:

I'll have to give that Ju4n stuff a listen- seems/looks righteous!

 

^^ Sheathe, oh gawd yes, both tracks with Plaza in their names on that album are glorious.. Esp that wall of swirling, filtering mid-heaven abyss that goes on for a minute at the end of one of em! I was listening to that album today at work when it hit me just how much detail & finesse Ultra puts into his/her editing/morphing/arranging.

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Oh yeah.. that's dope sounding (:

 

It's like the 80's Japanese jazz fusion band Casiopea on heroin remixed by a weird ass DJ, both collaborating on a piece of music on a friday morning at 4:30am in some seedy b-film/indie/porn theater theater in Philly, on a rainy day while the roof is leaking raindrops. Someone just ordered "falafel-hot dogs" from the vendor down the street, and walked into the theater only to be met by strung out Casiopea and the weird ass DJ who are both passed out in the sound booth while tape loops are repeating.

Edited by Lane Visitor
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why do all these album covers look like they are made by the same person? There was far more variety in the past nostalgia they are trying to channel, weird! I was hoping to find more 'vaporwave' on par ( in terms of inventiveness, not just aesthetically) with Eccojams or Replica but I have found almost nothing in this entire thread. I think I'm out at this point, have fun guys.

aka it crushes my soul a little bit for such a potentially exciting genre with so many possibilities being so intensely homogenous that I can't tell the bands apart.

Edited by John Ehrlichman
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why do all these album covers look like they are made by the same person? There was far more variety in the past nostalgia they are trying to channel, weird! I was hoping to find more 'vaporwave' on par ( in terms of inventiveness, not just aesthetically) with Eccojams or Replica but I have found almost nothing in this entire thread. I think I'm out at this point, have fun guys.

 

aka it crushes my soul a little bit for such a potentially exciting genre with so many possibilities being so intensely homogenous that I can't tell the bands apart.

 

Don't leave!!! lol no, i hear you though.. i've personally been posting a lot of the Fortune 500 stuff which seems to be pretty specific to a certain asthetic.. there are actually plenty of different flavors of vaporwave and related styles, from what ive been gathering. some verging closer to chillwave/ambient, or trancey, some closer to disco, some closer to smooth jazz/muzak, and some on the industrial/weird/experimental tip... others- more hip hop like blank banshee. what i love about all of these different flavors is that theyre still all weird, dreamy, imaginitive and timeless. For example, Point Never makes stuff that you cannot tell what era it derives from.

 

i personally have a fixation with dreamy loungey futuristic music you'd hear in hotels, airports and malls, hence my obsession with stuff like Prismcorp, Ultra, Luxury Elite and many other stuff on the f500 label.

 

but there's so much more of this stuff out there that doesn't have that Fortune500 feel. just gotta explore.

Edited by Lane Visitor
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why do all these album covers look like they are made by the same person? There was far more variety in the past nostalgia they are trying to channel, weird! I was hoping to find more 'vaporwave' on par ( in terms of inventiveness, not just aesthetically) with Eccojams or Replica but I have found almost nothing in this entire thread. I think I'm out at this point, have fun guys.

 

aka it crushes my soul a little bit for such a potentially exciting genre with so many possibilities being so intensely homogenous that I can't tell the bands apart.

 

Replica is kind of a bad comparison.

 

What about 18 Carat Affair--has not been discussed at all. It's kind of an interesting area where there is a bleed-over into Jacob 2-2 and Com Truise and all of that sort of iso50-step music.

Edited by sheatheman
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http://www.dummymag.com/features/next-saint-pepsi-and-new-generation

 

cool article about Saint Pepsi and how the Keats Collective is gonna be doing more stuff

 

 

also been hearing about James Ferarro's new album- supposed to be pretty crazy. ill have to check it out.

Edited by Lane Visitor
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Lots of the press about vaporwave is just a few skeletal fragments of what is in my head about it. Makes me feel reassured that people have only co-opted the easiest elements, all of that made-up capitalism commentary. Of course that is there for some people, but it's much more about the relationship between hoped-for/actual realities to me, or an exploration of how unfulfilled dreams are still out there.

 

I really question this statement from a vice article:

 

Unlike seapunk, vaporwave is actually “punk,” in that it’s driven by a subversive political objective: undermining the iron grip of global capitalism… by exposing the alienating emptiness underneath its uncanny sheen.


Of course that is there and is interesting, but those are connections being made by "writers." Most of the stuff I like wasn't made with the intention of making music that can be classified as vaporwave and thus some how topple big corps.

 

If there is going to be a narrative, there should be many, not just antiglobalism.

Edited by sheatheman
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Lots of the press about vaporwave is just a few skeletal fragments of what is in my head about it. Makes me feel reassured that people have only co-opted the easiest elements, all of that made-up capitalism commentary. Of course that is there for some people, but it's much more about the relationship between hoped-for/actual realities to me, or an exploration of how unfulfilled dreams are still out there.

 

I really question this statement from a vice article:

 

Unlike seapunk, vaporwave is actually “punk,” in that it’s driven by a subversive political objective: undermining the iron grip of global capitalism… by exposing the alienating emptiness underneath its uncanny sheen.

Of course that is there and is interesting, but those are connections being made by "writers." Most of the stuff I like wasn't made with the intention of making music that can be classified as vaporwave and thus some how topple big corps.

 

If there is going to be a narrative, there should be many, not just antiglobalism.

 

Absolutely,

 

For me, call it vaporwave, experimental, ambient, dreamy electronica, weird retro stuff, ironic elevator muzak lol whatever...

 

example- this:

 

http://disconscious.bandcamp.com/album/hologram-plaza

 

it's the sound, mood, feel, atmosphere, art that primarily captures me- not whatever political/social statement or categorization that it might be saying. I will say, that there is something that pulls me in the direction of the whole cold, vacant, corporate schmaltz wrapped in a warped, eerie, but some how comfy vibe. when you can't tell what era it's from, that's what i like. because it takes away the attachments in my mind when im listening. i think many of these artists have properly executed that aspect of their productions

 

whether it's sample-based or composed, i don't really care.. but they've managed to do something i find interesting, and I think it speaks to many people that are discovering it.

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