Vaporwave

[peace 7]

I know of a super underground music scene in Tokyo, that is exploding now. It is literally underground, and the music plays at parties held at abandoned subway stations. Entry is only by word of mouth, and I am not even supposed to talk about it. However, it goes so deep, that even mentioning this, you have to know someone at the top to get in. Let me just say: It's the best music in the universe.

 

Cost of entry: knowing someone at the top, and $5.

 

Okay, that's bullshit, but there are probably some mind blowing scenes that only 5 people know about, that nobody will ever spread, because it is so good. As an electronic music producer, I feel it is my duty to perhaps, create this sound, and find it, without knowing where or what it is. Cuz man, sometimes drum n bass is so retarded.

[manmower]

I like the way gmanyo's last post sort of took his first post in this thread and turned it from "liked it before it was cool" into "I sincerely love this stuff".

[poblequadrat]

 

bottom line is: besides a few tracks, vaporwave was shite anyway, so fuck this

 

i agree. the thing that originally caught my attention was how vaporwave was seemed to be recreations of past sounds from distorted memories- like someone asked to describe what it was like being at home on a friday night in the mid 80s watching tv and they described a foggy image that you could only relate to a few details rather than the entire picture.

 

what really killed it for me though was the half ass presentation and production. it's like they said "hey, remember the sounds from tv commercials in the 80s?". and stopped there. i remember one guy just looped some pop song from the time and distorted the vocals.

add to the fact that there was a new vaporwaver popping up like daily (sometimes just the same guy using a different name) releasing yet another slowed down version of kenny g stuff looped with a japanese girl on the cover and a cdrom logo on the upper right corner and this stuff begins to look and sound more like spam than music.

 

if they had done this sound, taken a hard look at what made it unique then tried to cultivate it and let it mature into something more than just simple loops then it would've been something great. instead, it's like none of them could figure out what to do next except slow the samples down even more or do an even worse cut and paste job than before.

 

http://vimeo.com/25388542

 

 

Yeah, I agree completely. At least for me it's not what Salvatorin was saying about aesthetic ideas failing. The goal is pretty much still standing, but the music itself falls way short of it.

 

 

 

Vaporwave... not vaporwave PER SE, but the general genre-bucket of vibes chillwave et al- clumping a mass of shit together, throwing in seapunk from the sidelines, but anyway- a lot of it is quite good. The past few years of electronic-ish music have been amazing in this regard (notice how "we" can no longer say "all electronic music is shit nowadays"?), thanks to post-post-post-retro + post-irony, and it's like somehow the mix of going back so far and then inside so far and then fake so far in such a real way, then trying to throw in something unexpected to make oneself laugh, has bred actual creativity and innovation. What the past few years has proven to me- with regards to this shiz- is that it's very difficult to be innovative and new by refining/polishing/re-painting something already established (the main problem with electronic music the past 13-ish years). This fault in innovative attemptage can analogously be seen in the low-brow art scene, where a handful of artists are sincerely expressing themselves solidly and uniquely; the majority of the rest are attempting to be "new" by copying established styles, which doesn't work, because the artists who do stand out have been crafting their style of years. It's naive to think that one can innovate immediately and catch speeding bandwagons, based on another's formula. Then there are people who draw/paint casually with generally no established technical skill, and they are outputting mindblowing shit, merely because they're not trying to be anything but themselves.

 

So this NUMUZAK WHATEVER IT IS STUFF--- due to trying to be somewhat funny and thematic/conceptual based instead of something aesthetically solidly established- and not giving a FUCK about criticism or much other than execution- a lot of artists are creating vibes that feel new, even though we're hearing a lot of familiar vibes from sampling (yah, some of the tracks make me feel like the living room lights are out late at night, glowing of tv screen, I'm in early elementary school, parents aren't home, I'm flipping through channels with the dial, sometimes putting my face up to the glass to see the rgb separation, with deep trippy ass emotions that emphasize the short-lived joyous moments of life; hence melancholy--- or just vibin' in a dance feel, cuz I was so young I accepted the pop vibes and shoulder pads and moosed hair and thick makeup and strong perfume and mustard yellow/green carpet, because I wasn't yet so up myself to think my opinion was more significant than another's).

 

Sooo, some of it is pretty boring and non-heartfelt, but some of it is extraordinarily good. I believe the thorough surfacing of such creations is noteworthy, marking the true next steps in electronic music. I can slooowly feel a new Orange Sunshine point in electronic music, where it's basically gonna be like, "Fuck everything, everything is great, old is nu, nothing is in the future, this is so hilarious let's move our bodies, what is going on?, what the FUCK?!, where am I?, lemme tweak the whatever, FUUUCK, nothing is sacred, so I will express without guilt"-- in that final expression, the sacred sounds of humanity will again be birthed; without attempting to create phuture-sound, true phuture-sound can be created.

 

*FREEEEEEEEDOM*

 

Aphex Twin will collab with Whoopi Goldberg to make skating kneepads, and it will make sense and be great.

 

As a somewhat related sidenote- it's weird how nobody really samples electronic tracks, IDM etc., and then make country/rock songs out of them. The other way seems natural; but sampling IDM etc. seems like plagiarism, even though it's exactly the same. Like if you sampled Milkman, Come On My Selector, We Have Explosive, and the acd line from Higher State Of Consciousness, then sang a US country western ballad over that, everyone would be like, "Hey you stole xxx, you fucking suck or whatever!" We will be firmly disconnected from our old selves (basement electronica superstars) in a positive manner, when we're comfortable with such music experiments.

 

I believe this is the kind of freedom that makes for poor music, but hey, it had to be tried out. I think there is a pretty strong distinction, too, between actual humour ("objective humour", as the surrealists put it) and postmodern "irony" (which is more similar to a neurotic symptom and completely lacks the revealing side of humour, instead playing on things everyone already knows and pretty much leaving them as they were).

 

The point about IDM and plagiarism is good. Not because nobody samples electronic tracks (everyone from Beck to Bjork does it, and there are some notorious examples in electronic music itself), but because there is a tribal streak I don't like. With old electroacoustic composers, the sheet music was available for everyone, while IDM artists are usually reluctant to talk about how they use their gear, forgetting that if they arrive at some innovation then it should be available for music as a whole, because that's what musicians do. It'd be a good idea to search for more ways of erasing traces of the pop band format and of genre tribalism (yo my breakz are the freshest don't you copy them).

Edited July 31, 2013 by poblequadrat

[gmanyo]

I like the way gmanyo's last post sort of took his first post in this thread and turned it from "liked it before it was cool" into "I sincerely love this stuff".

oh yeah lol i already told that story in this thread. hey, it was an important moment for me.

[Salvatorin]

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/music-review/virtual-information-desk-contemporary-sapporo

this is the problem. read the review. the guy doesn't seem to be able to wrap his mind around the concept that someone might actually LIKE the source material, that it isn't valueless noise. That maybe the person who compiled and remixed the samples did it out of appreciation and not just to make some political statement.

Closed-minded as hell.

 

---leads me to something I have to get off my chest:

I think the vast majority of people who over the past 6 years have mindlessly transitioned from listening to indie rock to listening to modern electronic music just because tastemaking websites told them to do so will never fully understand the appeal of electronic sounds. For 99% of people music outside of their little cultural context doesn't make sense unless it has some cool factor attached to it. cunts.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Salvatorin

[Plarkreluke Banloboh]

I think it's fascinating that musicians, listeners and critics will all get old and will all start to lose touch with 'what the young people are doing' who are always emerging and are always coming up with new ways to define themselves. If there wasn't an urge for generational or subcultural territorialism, then the growing popularity of the genre and dilution through 'Broporwave' wouldn't put people off.

 

There's got to be something in the way the brain of a child is completely unjudgemental and open to influence that forms part of this process. Work-for-hire art and advertising styles of recently passed eras form the backbone of their aesthetic sense in a way that slightly older people who have developed descriminating taste would never fall for. But if a kid is genuinely moved by something, then that is going to inform what they do in the coming years. Regardless of whether people who know better think it's silly to have been excited by a ubiquitous shampoo commercial. Those tensions and the fact that it can generate so much hot air in a review is proof that it is doing something more than just being anti-good-taste. There's an anxiety over is it cheezy, or is it ironic because it embraces the cheese? Is it funny? Is smug self-satisfaction a valid kind of enjoyment? Should I give in? Should I let it let? Will it turn everyone queer? Is this the emotional flavour of leisure? Is it disturbing like hedonism because it is easy? Can it seem to have no depth yet be more complex through it's surfaces, like higher-dimensional phenomena in quantum holographic theories?

Edited August 1, 2013 by wabby

[BobDobalina]

I think the vast majority of people who over the past 6 years have mindlessly transitioned from listening to indie rock to listening to modern electronic music just because tastemaking websites told them to do so will never fully understand the appeal of electronic sounds. For 99% of people music outside of their little cultural context doesn't make sense unless it has some cool factor attached to it. cunts.

 

Brofists^1000

 

There's got to be something in the way the brain of a child is completely unjudgemental and open to influence that forms part of this process. Work-for-hire art and advertising styles of recently passed eras form the backbone of their aesthetic sense in a way that slightly older people who have developed descriminating taste would never fall for. But if a kid is genuinely moved by something, then that is going to inform what they do in the coming years. Regardless of whether people who know better think it's silly to have been excited by a ubiquitous shampoo commercial. Those tensions and the fact that it can generate so much hot air in a review is proof that it is doing something more than just being anti-good-taste. There's an anxiety over is it cheezy, or is it ironic because it embraces the cheese? Is it funny? Is smug self-satisfaction a valid kind of enjoyment? Should I give in? Should I let it let? Will it turn everyone queer? Is this the emotional flavour of leisure? Is it disturbing like hedonism because it is easy? Can it seem to have no depth yet be more complex through it's surfaces, like higher-dimensional phenomena in quantum holographic theories?

 

[poblequadrat]

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/music-review/virtual-information-desk-contemporary-sapporo

this is the problem. read the review. the guy doesn't seem to be able to wrap his mind around the concept that someone might actually LIKE the source material, that it isn't valueless noise. That maybe the person who compiled and remixed the samples did it out of appreciation and not just to make some political statement.

Closed-minded as hell.

 

---leads me to something I have to get off my chest:

I think the vast majority of people who over the past 6 years have mindlessly transitioned from listening to indie rock to listening to modern electronic music just because tastemaking websites told them to do so will never fully understand the appeal of electronic sounds. For 99% of people music outside of their little cultural context doesn't make sense unless it has some cool factor attached to it. cunts.

 

What if people's sincere appreciation for something was a political matter? And why should I care about the personal preferences of someone I'll never know, and why should I do the work of linking those preferences to the product at hand? Is making a political point "less" than something else? Why should it be "valueless noise" if it's political? Don't you "like" at least one politics?

 

That said, the actual political weight of vaporwave is pretty much 0 in my opinion.

Edited August 1, 2013 by poblequadrat

[Salvatorin]

Well my point with the

 

 

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/music-review/virtual-information-desk-contemporary-sapporo

this is the problem. read the review. the guy doesn't seem to be able to wrap his mind around the concept that someone might actually LIKE the source material, that it isn't valueless noise. That maybe the person who compiled and remixed the samples did it out of appreciation and not just to make some political statement.

Closed-minded as hell.

 

---leads me to something I have to get off my chest:

I think the vast majority of people who over the past 6 years have mindlessly transitioned from listening to indie rock to listening to modern electronic music just because tastemaking websites told them to do so will never fully understand the appeal of electronic sounds. For 99% of people music outside of their little cultural context doesn't make sense unless it has some cool factor attached to it. cunts.

 

What if people's sincere appreciation for something was a political matter? And why should I care about the personal preferences of someone I'll never know, and why should I do the work of linking those preferences to the product at hand? Is making a political point "less" than something else? Why should it be "valueless noise" if it's political? Don't you "like" at least one politics?

 

That said, the actual political weight of vaporwave is pretty much 0 in my opinion.

 

well my comment was directed at the reviewer, who bases his interpretation of the album on the assumption (based on his own tastes) that most of the material is "so cheesy and so bad that, even when reframed, it’s cheesy and bad. Or, at the very least, forgettable and inconsequential." "This indifference to taste is flaunted throughout the album (...) to the point where this direct and, importantly, chosen confrontation with the bland becomes a large part of the sensually jarring, hyperreality-by-proxy experience that is listening to 札幌コンテンポラリー." "I mean, is this stuff a critique of capitalism? Is it a way of expressing the shortcomings of technology? Is it an attempt to reclaim the spaces in which this otherwise insufferable music is normally played?"

He brings up good points, but it doesn't occur to him that the music could actually be enjoyed for what it is.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Salvatorin

[gmanyo]

Well my point with the

 

 

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/music-review/virtual-information-desk-contemporary-sapporo

this is the problem. read the review. the guy doesn't seem to be able to wrap his mind around the concept that someone might actually LIKE the source material, that it isn't valueless noise. That maybe the person who compiled and remixed the samples did it out of appreciation and not just to make some political statement.

Closed-minded as hell.

 

---leads me to something I have to get off my chest:

I think the vast majority of people who over the past 6 years have mindlessly transitioned from listening to indie rock to listening to modern electronic music just because tastemaking websites told them to do so will never fully understand the appeal of electronic sounds. For 99% of people music outside of their little cultural context doesn't make sense unless it has some cool factor attached to it. cunts.

 

What if people's sincere appreciation for something was a political matter? And why should I care about the personal preferences of someone I'll never know, and why should I do the work of linking those preferences to the product at hand? Is making a political point "less" than something else? Why should it be "valueless noise" if it's political? Don't you "like" at least one politics?

 

That said, the actual political weight of vaporwave is pretty much 0 in my opinion.

 

well my comment was directed at the reviewer, who bases his interpretation of the album on the assumption (based on his own tastes) that most of the material is "so cheesy and so bad that, even when reframed, it’s cheesy and bad. Or, at the very least, forgettable and inconsequential." "This indifference to taste is flaunted throughout the album (...) to the point where this direct and, importantly, chosen confrontation with the bland becomes a large part of the sensually jarring, hyperreality-by-proxy experience that is listening to 札幌コンテンポラリー." "I mean, is this stuff a critique of capitalism? Is it a way of expressing the shortcomings of technology? Is it an attempt to reclaim the spaces in which this otherwise insufferable music is normally played?"

He brings up good points, but it doesn't occur to him that the music could actually be enjoyed for what it is.

 

Yeah, I think it's interesting as a personal review, but I fucking loooooooove that album. At the same time though, I think aesthetically I like it for the reasons he points out. I feel the vapidity of the music, and even though he doesn't I don't think that that means his interpretation isn't valid.

Edited August 1, 2013 by gmanyo

[joshuatxuk]

 

I think the vast majority of people who over the past 6 years have mindlessly transitioned from listening to indie rock to listening to modern electronic music just because tastemaking websites told them to do so will never fully understand the appeal of electronic sounds. For 99% of people music outside of their little cultural context doesn't make sense unless it has some cool factor attached to it. cunts.

 

Brofists^1000

 

 

Good point. In fact, that's basically the epiphany I had about my own cynicism when I realized I was being petty for disliking Skrillex and those who like him. I grew up with pitchfork and similar sites (and now defunct mp3 blogs) around when I was a naive fiend for exploring new music in college (circa 2004-2007) and I'm increasingly liberated with my apathy toward all of the buzzed bands and artists.

 

Not a day goes by when I browse said websites and at at least one point seriously ask myself: "does this person even like music?" It's not snobbery nor pretentiousness, it's like hybrid of nihilism and apathy that fuels so much of the taste-maker ethos, at least enough to kill their wonder and curiosity toward music and sound, especially electronic music. That's the reason Pitchfork deleted all of their late positive reviews of late 90s big beat music. That's why James Blake blew up when he got a haircut and started crooning. That's why M.I.A. became a perpetual news story as her music declined and the bullshit meta social "discussion" of her persona injected itself into her music. That's why VHS Head is beloved by fans and well-received by most who hear but barely fucking registered among the "top" online music journalism sites.

 

SXSW 2013 was a physical manifestation of the current state of things. I can't find the video but the overview is here, but even NBC Nightly News (The Rock Center With Brian Williams, i.e. NBC's 60 Minutes) had a feature on the festival.

 

 

We spent a lot of time following 26-year-old Ryan Bort. What a good sport he was to let us tail him with cameras! Ryan writes for Paste Magazine. If he writes about a new band, it just might push others to check them out, which might lead to some record exec sitting in the crowd at a particular show.

At any given hour, there are hundreds of things you could be doing at SXSW. There are 84 bands playing at 8 p.m. on Thursday in 84 different places. So, Ryan makes a list of the bands he thinks he might want to catch and then runs from venue to venue trying to catch a few minutes of each. Ryan is trying to see as much music as humanly possible in these seven days. There are more than 2,000 bands officially at the festival, and that doesn’t include the unofficial day parties, and showcases, and guys in hot food trucks who roll up the takeout window and start performing (no, seriously, we saw that).

 

There was this incredibly depressing scene, to the point of hilarity, of that same sleep-deprived and soulless music writer casting a thousand-yard stare at some already successful "Indie" band (Atlas Genius I think, or Alt-J...fuck I don't even remember) They are jamming and he doesn't move beyond a involuntary head bop. The excited NBC correspondent asks what he thinks and he utters in a faux excited monotone voice "yeah, they're good. real good. yeah."

 

Then there's this moment. The very well-received hype band Foxygen (the album is good imo) absolutely melting down after a long day of multiple back-to-back gigs sponsored by labels, social media outlets, online sites, corporate products, etc. Here there are, playing for free to a bunch of asshole SXSW conference attendees and myriad of other opportunists and attention-seeking pricks, and they're being fucking heckled. Heckled. At a free show, with free booze by fuckers who were more likely than not PAID by their companies or parents or whatever fucking hypothetical funds their online employer has. This is what happens when someone realizes he's playing his music for drunk people who absolutely don't give a fuck beyond tweeting some derivative snarky bullshit comment and uploading pic #57261 on instragram.

 

 

That said, I can't been all gloom and doom. Such cynicism and hopelessness is unnecessary and silly. It's encouraging seeing younger listeners geek out over producers who aren't on the taste-maker radar, and likewise seeing my peers and older fans go back to following truly independent and underground artists locally and in isolated but tight-knit online communities.

 

That said, fight the power, don't believe the hype, etc. Listen with open ears and an open heart.

[Guest vletrmx]

Well, I probably look flakey for changing opinions this quickly, but after several full listens the PrismCop Enterprise tapes have grown on me like hell. Part of it is the atmosphere, the whole supeimposed-clip art first-class aristocrat mood, part of it is the little touches (occasional cash-register sounds in what may or may not be a snarky aside to capitalism), but most of it is that the songs are actually funky. I heard one of them was based on the Leisure Suit Larry soundtrack, that's dope. Anyways, they're growers (and at times, practically abrasive in the implied vapidity), but I'm starting to love them. Oh and you guys are having a really interesting discussion here sorry to interrupt /rant

[brian trageskin]

prismcorp virtual enterprises' music feels like being raped by satan

[poblequadrat]

Well my point with the

 

 

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/music-review/virtual-information-desk-contemporary-sapporo

this is the problem. read the review. the guy doesn't seem to be able to wrap his mind around the concept that someone might actually LIKE the source material, that it isn't valueless noise. That maybe the person who compiled and remixed the samples did it out of appreciation and not just to make some political statement.

Closed-minded as hell.

 

---leads me to something I have to get off my chest:

I think the vast majority of people who over the past 6 years have mindlessly transitioned from listening to indie rock to listening to modern electronic music just because tastemaking websites told them to do so will never fully understand the appeal of electronic sounds. For 99% of people music outside of their little cultural context doesn't make sense unless it has some cool factor attached to it. cunts.

 

What if people's sincere appreciation for something was a political matter? And why should I care about the personal preferences of someone I'll never know, and why should I do the work of linking those preferences to the product at hand? Is making a political point "less" than something else? Why should it be "valueless noise" if it's political? Don't you "like" at least one politics?

 

That said, the actual political weight of vaporwave is pretty much 0 in my opinion.

 

well my comment was directed at the reviewer, who bases his interpretation of the album on the assumption (based on his own tastes) that most of the material is "so cheesy and so bad that, even when reframed, it’s cheesy and bad. Or, at the very least, forgettable and inconsequential." "This indifference to taste is flaunted throughout the album (...) to the point where this direct and, importantly, chosen confrontation with the bland becomes a large part of the sensually jarring, hyperreality-by-proxy experience that is listening to 札幌コンテンポラリー." "I mean, is this stuff a critique of capitalism? Is it a way of expressing the shortcomings of technology? Is it an attempt to reclaim the spaces in which this otherwise insufferable music is normally played?"

He brings up good points, but it doesn't occur to him that the music could actually be enjoyed for what it is.

 

I see your point. I'm sorry if I came across as a bit aggressive - I've seen people oppose "simple enjoyment for people like you and me" and making points too often, so maybe I jumped on that. I'm sorry.

[poblequadrat]

 

Well my point with the

 

 

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/music-review/virtual-information-desk-contemporary-sapporo

this is the problem. read the review. the guy doesn't seem to be able to wrap his mind around the concept that someone might actually LIKE the source material, that it isn't valueless noise. That maybe the person who compiled and remixed the samples did it out of appreciation and not just to make some political statement.

Closed-minded as hell.

 

---leads me to something I have to get off my chest:

I think the vast majority of people who over the past 6 years have mindlessly transitioned from listening to indie rock to listening to modern electronic music just because tastemaking websites told them to do so will never fully understand the appeal of electronic sounds. For 99% of people music outside of their little cultural context doesn't make sense unless it has some cool factor attached to it. cunts.

 

What if people's sincere appreciation for something was a political matter? And why should I care about the personal preferences of someone I'll never know, and why should I do the work of linking those preferences to the product at hand? Is making a political point "less" than something else? Why should it be "valueless noise" if it's political? Don't you "like" at least one politics?

 

That said, the actual political weight of vaporwave is pretty much 0 in my opinion.

 

well my comment was directed at the reviewer, who bases his interpretation of the album on the assumption (based on his own tastes) that most of the material is "so cheesy and so bad that, even when reframed, it’s cheesy and bad. Or, at the very least, forgettable and inconsequential." "This indifference to taste is flaunted throughout the album (...) to the point where this direct and, importantly, chosen confrontation with the bland becomes a large part of the sensually jarring, hyperreality-by-proxy experience that is listening to 札幌コンテンポラリー." "I mean, is this stuff a critique of capitalism? Is it a way of expressing the shortcomings of technology? Is it an attempt to reclaim the spaces in which this otherwise insufferable music is normally played?"

He brings up good points, but it doesn't occur to him that the music could actually be enjoyed for what it is.

 

I see your point. I'm sorry if I came across as a bit aggressive - I've seen people oppose "simple enjoyment for people like you and me" to making points too often, so I jumped on that. I'm sorry.

 

[vamos scorcho]

i know someoen made vaporwave that was a lot more interesting and better but never gets paid also invented the genre a long time ago

 

seriously fuck this

 

I'm tired of people stealing somebody's ideas. their music is actually good and they understood vaporwave a long time ago. they have always understood vaporwave, inspired by 53 os who were the true inventors

 

bandwagoners always steal the money from inventors by couching original ideas in fancy imagery for retards

 

 

 

listen to track 16 to realize who invented this fucking genre that has been stolen by the morons who dont even like music they're hipsters and they want money

 

hail the true inventor

 

http://corncat.bandcamp.com/album/1-34

Edited August 1, 2013 by vamos scorcho

[Cryptowen]

I think the vast majority of people who over the past 6 years have mindlessly transitioned from listening to indie rock to listening to modern electronic music just because tastemaking websites told them to do so will never fully understand the appeal of electronic sounds.

little kids probably just look as music as COOL SOUNDS and it isn't until they get older that they start to focus more on specifics like melody or cultural context. Someone coming to electronic music as an adult is gonna care more about a good tune, whereas someone who was exposed to it at a young age might have more an appreciation for texture & atmopshere. JUST MAH THEORY THO...and I'm not saying one's better than the other that's just how the cookie tear

 

Fo examps

Everybody likes Fingerbib because it's a real pretty jam that would still sound pretty on a piano

SAW85 requires a little bit of techno appreciation but it's sitll funtimes for most

SAWii is gonna have some more casual types going "jay chris it's all just three notes whatup"

And someone who likes Aphex Airlines is bound to be pretty well balls deep

[awepittance]

has anyone discussed yet if Vaporware has more in common with Pluderphonics, the term coined by Jon Oswald or if it has more in common with other forms of non conceptual or avant-garde sample based music like DJ Screw or J Dilla. To me it almost has more in common with Plunderphonics, because often the samples sound very masturbatorily cutup almost as if a joke like 'haha we're just going to loop this section and call it a song' and in that way i think it's a pretty brilliant artistic statement, but on the other hand it seems like a lot of the people making it might actually feel they are being really creative in the process. Sorry if this has been discussed, im just curious

Edited August 2, 2013 by John Ehrlichman

[Guest RadarJammer]

has anyone discussed yet if Vaporware has more in common with Pluderphonics, the term coined by Jon Oswald or if it has more in common with other forms of non conceptual or avant-garde sample based music like DJ Screw or J Dilla. To me it almost has more in common with Plunderphonics, because often the samples sound very masturbatorily cutup almost as if a joke like 'haha we're just going to loop this section and call it a song' and in that way i think it's a pretty brilliant artistic statement, but on the other hand it seems like a lot of the people making it might actually feel they are being really creative in the process. Sorry if this has been discussed, im just curious

it just seems like another manifestation of that william s. burroughs fringe art collective type thing that comes and goes

if we gonna try and stereotype them i'd say vaporwavers feed on being unique and part of something special more than bein brilliant or making a statement

[gmanyo]

imo vaporwave is extremely similar to Andy Warhol's art. The same semi-ironic-portrait semi-glamourization of the "lowest" art possible.

[Guest RadarJammer]

imo vaporwave is extremely similar to Andy Warhol's art. The same semi-ironic-portrait semi-glamourization of the "lowest" art possible.

yeah that's what I was going for

[joshuatxuk]

has anyone discussed yet if Vaporware has more in common with Pluderphonics, the term coined by Jon Oswald or if it has more in common with other forms of non conceptual or avant-garde sample based music like DJ Screw or J Dilla. To me it almost has more in common with Plunderphonics, because often the samples sound very masturbatorily cutup almost as if a joke like 'haha we're just going to loop this section and call it a song' and in that way i think it's a pretty brilliant artistic statement, but on the other hand it seems like a lot of the people making it might actually feel they are being really creative in the process. Sorry if this has been discussed, im just curious

 

That's a good tangent.

 

"DJ Screw" has been lazily referenced for just about every trendy genre possible (witch house, chillwave, cloud rap, etc). Ironically, few realize he was using tape specifically to make his sound, whereas most present day pitch or timstretch with software. But that misses the point of his greater legacy, which is that of a mixtape DJ. The "screwed" sound was a trademark, but his influence on hip-hop was he meticulous crate-digging of non-Texas hip-hop beats and releases and having local rappers freestyle over his tapes. He took the traditional mixtape formula and made it practically his own work, and for Houston "Screw Tapes" became an establishment. I can't think of another well-established hip-hop mixtape DJ that even comes close in creating such a following and made you hear hip-hop differently.

 

The thing is, it's such an arbitrary line on whether it's pure gimmick versus sincere artistry. It really forces a judgement on the part of the listener to speculate on the intentions of the creator. This article from 2010 by Mark Richardson (yeah I know it's on pfork sorry) highlights that to an extent. He highlights that Washed Out's song "Feel It All Around" is literally a lengthy, slowed down loop of a 1983 Italo song and him singing over it (even the drums are part of the loop). That song was a successful commercial release, and also essentially the "definitive" chillwave hit. He then goes on to discus disco edits and what makes those not quite remixes nor original songs. There's actually better examples:

 

Take the Field. I was astounded to find that every sample mentioned on whosampled has been removed (legal reasons perhaps?). And yet it's well-established and very well noted that his album at the core, was built on loops of pop songs. I've seen it call nanotrance and microhouse, and essentially he's debut album was a minimal techno release with pop song snippets instead of synths as melodic hooks. And the way he let some samples unravel, not to mention his choices of sample sources (Lionel Richie, Coldplay) really begged the question of whether it was sincere or pure novelty.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuYS0Sz-h1g&feature=share&list=PLnE198dL9-1EDILOsKuXx_gBfoEM_CGor

 

The success of mash-ups and mash-up artists and the fact that at some point in 2005 or so critical acclaim was lauded upon them really fucked up a lot of established notions of what qualifies as worthwhile sampling and DJ mixing. If it wasn't going to be Girl Talk, it would of still occurred, but his success has had a bad ripple effect. Not so much in his output musically, but the fact that he was a rallying point in docs like RiP!:_A_Remix_Manifesto and a cited person in the copyright debate. Nothing he actually did was original or new, he was just good at it. I'm still shocked he was added to Illegal_Art. At the end of the day he was the one of hundred, if not thousands, of producers who threw hip-hop acappellas over pop songs and mashed them with other songs in the same key. I've always felt 2 Many DJs were far better and underrated, not only because they did it before him, but because they had a more notable ethos as DJs. They mixed obscure and underground 12" dance releases with Top40 pop, 60s and 70s records with then new electronic music, had tongue and cheek transitions and mash-ups. It was a lot more informed and sincere. They also separated this from their work as a band (Soulwax) instead of calling themselves musicians as Girl Talk had when was been labeled as such. Nothing against him or his popularity, just the critical acclaim. Throwing a Soulja Boy acappella over Aphex Twin and putting it out on an official album is neither brilliant nor edgy. And plenty of artists were putting out white label releases, bootleg CDs and mp3s years before he became "a thing." And hell, I'm not even counting the far more brilliant sample tour de forces of DJ Shadow or the Avalanches or the Dust Brothers' produced Paul's Boutique, or the works of Steinski or Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel.

 

I think Lopatin's work (OPN, Eccojams) touches on this aspect best, and to me it's plunderphonics of emotion and nostalgia. For me as a 27 year old in 2013, vaporwave is more often than not a direct nostalgic injection, far more than Boards of Canada (they're music is like a memory of a memory, like paging through media at your grandparents house) and far, FAR more direct in terms of nostalgia than the myriad of 80s synth pop and electro producers that are really popular with my peers right now. When it works well, it's just good music. I'll be honest, I found myself skimming all the wordy commentary because I really just want to listen to the music and see if it speaks to me. I could give 2 fucks if it's meta commentary on post-post-post modern socioeconomic consumerism and shit. You know what first made me think twice and like vaporwave? Because it reminded me of when I was a kid who lived on a huge American air base in Okiwawa, Japan in 1997, when I was both bombarded with Japanese pop culture and technology (I fondly recall watching films on laserdisc in the electronics store within the BX), 90s fads like Beanie Babies and the Macarena, and of course, the fuzzy memories of tropical beaches. It's purely a personal connection.

 

This video went around during the Basinski reissue talk, but this video might best express what I mean about the pitfalls of over-thinking the negative and positive aspects of this music critically (watch from 4:00 on to skip to that point). He brings up a lot of great ambient works that predate what's trended in the last couple of years.

 

http://vimeo.com/53985670

 

This of course, also has a connection to hauntology. I suppose why these microgenres and scenes are so divisive, they often source from a more recent time that had a shorter shelf-live. When DJs sample 50s lounge music, or bands play purely 60s or 70s sounding rock music, there's a very well-established and exhausted cultural zeitgiest that's being acknowledged. The fact that the 80s and 90s already saw retro movements compounds this fact. As mentioned earlier, producers are reaching for then forgotten and dismissed aesthetics of the 90s, the media that appealed to us when we were kids and unaware or uncaring of what was considered good or bad or high or low brow or "cool" versus "lame." Compare the sourcing of muzak to that of say, the revival of 909 drums and hoover synths in dance music recently. One is supposed to be ironic and clever and the other is supposed to be purely hip and retro. Personally, the more artists seem to avoid such divisions of self-awareness, the better.

 

I'll conclude with this, one of my favorite releases this year is this one. It's not ground-breaking or anything, and I'm sure it's way to lo-fi for many (an understandable criticism) but I haven't quite heard another release like it and it's basically just a guy making fun but unique dance music. It's throwback in it's sound and aesthetic, but it doesn't overtly cater to anything, and that's a huge plus to me.

 

Edited August 2, 2013 by joshuatx

[Guest cult fiction]

That cyclist track is great!!

[gmanyo]

Compare the sourcing of muzak to that of say, the revival of 909 drums and hoover synths in dance music recently. One is supposed to be ironic and clever and the other is supposed to be purely hip and retro. Personally, the more artists seem to avoid such divisions of self-awareness, the better.

 

I really don't see this as being much of a problem as everyone else does. The music perfectly represents emptiness on an emotional level. I like ironic music. Like I said, I don't have to think about this music to like it, I just like it. I "get" it emotionally. In fact, I don't even love pure retro; it's fun but it really just steals whatever emotions were there before, or more accurately it creates feelings of what we remember the past was like. It's fun stuff but that's about it for me. I'd go so far as to say that I prefer my music to stray away from the nostalgic. Nostalgia is a nice thing to throw in the mix because it taps us at such a core level and can open the mind to complex emotional landscapes, but if it's nostalgia for the sake of "remember when we were young" then it does little for me. Referencing broken VHS tapes reminds me of the deterioration of technology and losing touch with the past. Groovy 303 funk lines at dance parties remind me of...groovy 303 funk lines at dance parties. Which, don't get me wrong, I like, but not on a same core level. One could argue that the "fun" stuff is important in its tongue-in-cheek lightheartedness, like watching shitty kung-fu movies because they're badass. But I still feel more strongly about the other stuff. Maybe it helps to have really lived through the era being lived to and in that case more diverse meaning is ascribed to a given work, although I feel like I've absorbed certain ideas through culture; commercial 50s music also feels empty and materialistic to me, and thus has more value. Boards of Canada is a great example of a band that injects more than just nos

Related genres don't evoke nostalgia at all, although they do have referencing. Future Bass is literally the opposite of nostalgic, using a future-as-imagined-by-the-media mixed with anything current and "badass" like energy drinks to make political/social satire and show how technology separates people (and yeah, some of it is just nice music). New vaporwave-ish stuff from people like Jono Mi Lo and E+E sounds like the future crumbling apart. And there's other stuff too. None of this is nostalgic in the slightest, unless you consider it nostalgia for current pop culture.

Nostalgia is great and all, but by itself it can be boring. I might argue that anything that makes you feel a certain way is actually making a point, even if you and the musician don't quite know what it is, which might be a point against what I just said, but w/e.

[joshuatxuk]

 

Related genres don't evoke nostalgia at all, although they do have referencing. Future Bass is literally the opposite of nostalgic, using a future-as-imagined-by-the-media mixed with anything current and "badass" like energy drinks to make political/social satire and show how technology separates people (and yeah, some of it is just nice music). New vaporwave-ish stuff from people like Jono Mi Lo and E+E sounds like the future crumbling apart. And there's other stuff too. None of this is nostalgic in the slightest, unless you consider it nostalgia for current pop culture.

 

Nostalgia is great and all, but by itself it can be boring. I might argue that anything that makes you feel a certain way is actually making a point, even if you and the musician don't quite know what it is, which might be a point against what I just said, but w/e.

 

 

Yes! I think you just made a connection I was at the cusp of finding. I suppose that UNO label stuff (Arca, Gatekeeper, Nguzunguzu), and releases from Night Slugs highlighted in the "Distroid" argument bridges that gap too. I've found Kode9 and his peers like Actress and Zomby (older music mostly) evoking the same feelings I get from far more retro-oriented musicians. Again, all usually classified future bass. That was really the type of aesthetic that appealed to me first when I stumbled upon dubstep.

 

I think another aspect is just how good the music itself is. I was telling a friend that I like Com Truise and Ford and Lopatin at the core because they write great melodies and arrangements, not simply because they produce specifically and exclusively with retro equipment and sounds. For me a lot of very popular music in 2013 is heavy on retro sounds and references, but ultimately quite medicore and forgettable.

 

Nice recommendations by the way, really like the Jono Mi Lo and E+E tracks.