School Shooting in Connecticut

[Guest Mirezzi]

“Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to ensure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones.”

 

Larry Pratt

Executive Director - Gun Owners of America

[SR4]

“Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to ensure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones.”

 

Larry Pratt

Executive Director - Gun Owners of America

 

this guy doesn't help things either.

 

wow.

[YO303]

They're all fucking idiots, another tragedy turned into a political pawn. Every fucking time this kind of shit happens everybody will use it as justification for their political beliefs.

[SR4]

They're all fucking idiots, another tragedy turned into a political pawn. Every fucking time this kind of shit happens everybody will use it as justification for their political beliefs.

 

 

well of course. most people identify or consider their political beliefs to be directly motivated by ethical or moral belief systems. therefore politics is seen as an extension of those core belief systems.

 

but yeah, there are far better ways of going about this than running your mouth about people having or not having guns.

[RichieBees]

“Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to ensure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones.”

 

Larry Pratt

Executive Director - Gun Owners of America

 

fucking lol im surprised he didnt call for arming the children

the obvious way to prevent tragedies such as this is more guns :|

[SR4]

i remember someone saying something similar about people in the dark, crowded theater in Aurora...what an idiot.

[Guest Lucy Faringold]

“Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to ensure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones.”

 

Larry Pratt

Executive Director - Gun Owners of America

 

this is absolutely obscene. Someone tell me this isn't real. Please.

[azatoth]

What kind of society are you going towards where the need to carry a weapon at all time seems like a reasonable idea? I am against guns and don't see any reason for civilians to own handguns and assault rifles, but the US seems beyond the point of no return when it comes to proper gun control. The gun culture is already so ingrained and there are already far too many weapons out there to realistically think they can somehow be removed. As I see it, the US has made its bed in regards to this and should get used to these sort of tragedies happening in the future.

 

I wonder how it would change if more people actually started to carry more weapons? It seems to me that many of those that advocate it think of themselves as master marksmen with icewater in their veins who could coldly double-tap some nutter center mass in a chaotic situation like a mass shooting would be like. They probably fantasize about being the hero in a situation like that. I could see it becoming even worse, when a number of "heros" try to save the day and gunning down innocents in the process. Like the thing that happened in NYC not long ago, where the NYPD managed to injure 9 innocent people while shooting at one perpetrator, and these are supposedly trained individuals. And I wonder what the body count would have been if some of these concealed carry advocates would have been in that Batman screening in Colorado, trying to get a shot at the shooter in a dark theater with hundreds of people running around for cover.

 

I don't know what should be done related to guns to stop these sort of thing from happening, but as already mentioned, the media should stop sensationalizing it and stop the 24/7 coverage of it. I am sure the exaggerated media exposure for the killer is a thing that they account when thinking about doing something as horrible as this.

[Guest Mirezzi]

 

It is the responsibility of all intellectually capable adults to go beyond the idiotic "GUN DEBATE" and focus on the very serious philosophical questions at the root of our current age

 

nihilism, religion, psychology, political science

 

 

I did lol, because that is indeed a very old poster.

 

However, the numbers are still quite fucked. According to the FBI, there were 6,009 handgun murders committed in the U.S. in 2010. SOURCE

[SR4]

What kind of society are you going towards where the need to carry a weapon at all time seems like a reasonable idea? I am against guns and don't see any reason for civilians to own handguns and assault rifles, but the US seems beyond the point of no return when it comes to proper gun control. The gun culture is already so ingrained and there are already far too many weapons out there to realistically think they can somehow be removed. As I see it, the US has made its bed in regards to this and should get used to these sort of tragedies happening in the future.

 

I wonder how it would change if more people actually started to carry more weapons? It seems to me that many of those that advocate it think of themselves as master marksmen with icewater in their veins who could coldly double-tap some nutter center mass in a chaotic situation like a mass shooting would be like. They probably fantasize about being the hero in a situation like that. I could see it becoming even worse, when a number of "heros" try to save the day and gunning down innocents in the process. Like the thing that happened in NYC not long ago, where the NYPD managed to injure 9 innocent people while shooting at one perpetrator, and these are supposedly trained individuals. And I wonder what the body count would have been if some of these concealed carry advocates would have been in that Batman screening in Colorado, trying to get a shot at the shooter in a dark theater with hundreds of people running around for cover.

 

I don't know what should be done related to guns to stop these sort of thing from happening, but as already mentioned, the media should stop sensationalizing it and stop the 24/7 coverage of it. I am sure the exaggerated media exposure for the killer is a thing that they account when thinking about doing something as horrible as this.

 

 

it is past the point of no return, that's why I guess Im being pragmatic about it. Id love to hear how we can forcibly collect guns in the hands of NRA members without more bloodshed.

 

I like the Canadian law system...in which you can have a hunting rifle with a permit. Im interested to see how many of these gun crimes are being committed with hunting rifles.

[Guest Mirezzi]

 

 

 

it is past the point of no return, that's why I guess Im being pragmatic about it. Id love to hear how we can forcibly collect guns in the hands of NRA members without more bloodshed.

 

I like the Canadian law system...in which you can have a hunting rifle with a permit. Im interested to see how many of these gun crimes are being committed with hunting rifles.

 

Wikipedia: In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with a type of firearm not specified.

 

The new IPB software or whatever plugin that's used for embedding quotes is really annoying. You can't remove the stacks of nested quotes.

[SR4]

ah..there you have it then....we ban handguns, 75% less gun homicides, and hunters still get to hunt.

 

edit: of course this will require the govt. and police agencies to engage in countless shootouts against those who believe their 2nd am. rights are infringed upon.

[sweepstakes]

“Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to ensure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones.”

 

Larry Pratt

Executive Director - Gun Owners of America

 

This quote is so fucked I had to read it 5 times before I realized what he was really saying. Ho-lee shit we are fucked.

[RichieBees]

i dont get it do these guys expect fucking teachers etc to have a shoot out with people who shoot up schools? but u know if i was there (or at the theatre shooting or on one of the 9/11 planes) i would have drawn my hanzo steel, charged at the shooter possibly batting bullets out the air with my indestructable katana and fucking sliced him down. it would have done that thing where nothing moves for a bit then hes like oh noooo this guys too quick and his face falls off)

[Hoodie]

the world is fucked. gun control laws won't help--our culture is the fucked up part. this guy thought it was a better idea to kill his family and a bunch of five year olds than go talk to someone about whatever issues he had with his mom. we need to take steps as a society to destigmatize mental illness so that finding help from a professional turns into the default first choice. the first step would obviously be making counseling widely available... but americans can't even get their shit together on health care, so i don't have high hopes for anything to do with mental health.

[gmanyo]

 

blablabla

 

ok yeah it might have 'totalitarian' elements, but it also has elements of communism. it's definitely not just the same old totalitarian style of government we've seen in the past, before it. it's a new (relatively) thing, based on Leninism which was based on Marsism, and it wouldn't exist if not for Marx, so you should stop acting like there is absolutely no relation. but anyway, you specifically said that china is the subject of or to capitalism, not totalitarianism or whatever. you also said kids working IS capitalism. you said this specifically:

"I don't know why you think child labor isn't capitalism"

 

as if the mere concept of labor itself is the definition of capitalism. so would kids who were subjects under a real prick of a king who forced everyone to slave away for him, would those kids be capitalists? before you say yes, or even before you say that they are victims of capitalism- NO they aren't. try typing capitalism into google and glancing at the first stuff that comes up. see that part about private ownership? the idea of kids working, in and of itself, has nothing at all to do with the concept of private ownership rights for citizens. you seem awful over-zealous to blame things on capitalism to me, with little to no idea of what it even is. but regardless of what word YOU, limpyloo, are satisfied with people calling China, they aren't capitalists.

 

this recent shooting has nothing to do with capitalism, at least not directly. to bring indirect relationships into it would be tantamount to blaming it on your earth goddess gaia because it took place on her soil. yes the shooting happened in a capitalist country, and i'm sure you or someone can and will connect a lot of bullshit dots to show it as a cause/effect thing, but it's just bullshit. and i'm really not going to be interested in your reply, at this point.

 

I don't want to get too sidetracked/argumentative here, but China's is often referred to as being state capitalism, and many say that the economy itself is very capitalistic. So I think one could make a legitimate critique of capitalism using China as an example as long as they were careful about it.

 

From Wikipedia:

Modern-day China is mainly characterized as having a market economy based on private property ownership, and is one of the leading examples of state capitalism.

 

While I haven't researched it enough to say much, it seems to me like China has most of the negatives of capitalism without the positives, except for economic growth. Certainly the idea of the government leaving gun sale open to private enterprise is a capitalist one and therefore one could make the argument that capitalism has some effect on the situation.

 

 

“Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to ensure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones.”

 

Larry Pratt

Executive Director - Gun Owners of America

 

This quote is so fucked I had to read it 5 times before I realized what he was really saying. Ho-lee shit we are fucked.

 

yeah it took me a bit. i cant help but laugh my ass off at this quote.

[Adieu]

The way I see it is that the only option is to

A) Make gun application extremely thorough

B) Cut down on people selling guns between each other

C) Arm many more people at schools and other public facilities.

 

If I had a kid going to school I would feel much more at ease knowing there are lots of armed people around my child able to protect them. As of right now public schools are too easy a target for shooters like this. I don't think that restricting gun laws is going to help too much and I'm not okay with the idea of an unarmed populous for numerous reasons. If we stopped the war on drugs and took a 1/4 of the money and put it towards "Gun Management" we could probably solve this issue for the most part. As it stands schools are too easy to infiltrate and harm people.

 

Although that guy's comments are in poor taste he is right about the bottom line. People are less likely to shoot up a place where they know they are going to get shot back at.

 

I also think easier access to marijuana and shrooms might go a long way in increasing people's empathy towards one another.

 

I don't think the type of weapon has anything to do with it, but it would be great if banning handguns had a positive effect. I just don't think the tool is the issue.

[Guest Mirezzi]

If I had a kid going to school I would feel much more at ease knowing there are lots of armed people around my child able to protect them.

 

No you wouldn't. In fact, only an idiot or somebody without kids would even think that, let alone say it or write it.

[gmanyo]

The way I see it is that the only option is to

A) Make gun application extremely thorough

B) Cut down on people selling guns between each other

C) Arm many more people at schools and other public facilities.

 

If I had a kid going to school I would feel much more at ease knowing there are lots of armed people around my child able to protect them. As of right now public schools are too easy a target for shooters like this. I don't think that restricting gun laws is going to help too much and I'm not okay with the idea of an unarmed populous for numerous reasons. If we stopped the war on drugs and took a 1/4 of the money and put it towards "Gun Management" we could probably solve this issue for the most part. As it stands schools are too easy to infiltrate and harm people.

 

Although that guy's comments are in poor taste he is right about the bottom line. People are less likely to shoot up a place where they know they are going to get shot back at.

 

I also think easier access to marijuana and shrooms might go a long way in increasing people's empathy towards one another.

 

I don't think the type of weapon has anything to do with it, but it would be great if banning handguns had a positive effect. I just don't think the tool is the issue.

I honestly am not concerned about gun laws because of these shootings. It's the "whoops, left the gun out and my kid got ahold of it!" that scares me. Or the kids stealing the teachers' guns in rough neighborhoods. I mean, then EVERY crazy kid who could do a shooting can have access to a gun; just take the teacher's!

[vamos scorcho]

 

 

It is the responsibility of all intellectually capable adults to go beyond the idiotic "GUN DEBATE" and focus on the very serious philosophical questions at the root of our current age

 

nihilism, religion, psychology, political science

 

 

I did lol, because that is indeed a very old poster.

 

However, the numbers are still quite fucked. According to the FBI, there were 6,009 handgun murders committed in the U.S. in 2010. SOURCE

 

 

I understand this, I was mostly saying that I'd prefer we focus on mental health, education, and the system itself instead of another tired gun debate that misses the point.

 

I agree, mildly, that gun control would help. However, there are plenty of statistics that suggest gun control isn't the problem. I would suggest America is suffering from de-evolution and one of the most ignorant and anti-intellectual, near fascist neo nazi populations on the face of the planet.

[sweepstakes]

So many diverse, conflicting solutions to this problem. Obviously if we WATMMers can't even come to an agreement in this thread, there's no hope for a legislative solution to this.

 

The main goal is to stop mentally unstable people from going on shooting sprees, right? So the solutions proposed so far are:

- Tighter gun control, to stop the crazies from getting a hold of guns in the first place

- Arm everyone to the teeth, so when someone has already started shooting they can be killed before they kill more people

- Regulate the media coverage, to reduce glorification of mass murder

- Provide wider access to mental health, to provide an outlet for would-be aggressors to work out their internal problems

- Regulate/ban violent movies/games/etc., to reduce glorification of firearms and killing (not sure whether anyone actually proposed this in this thread, I kind of doubt it)

- Somehow fix culture/society, to reduce violent tendencies on the whole

 

Each of which are some combination of expensive, unpalatable, vague, or unrealistic. The only ones that seem really actionable , to me, are #1 and #3, which of course have issues with the 2nd and 1st constitutional amendments, so neither of seem actionable in America in 2012. Also, fwiw I personally think #2 is fucking insane and the fact that the idea itself is so popular makes me think #5 is a more appropriate solution than I'd like to admit.

 

Thus, we are fucked. Try not to go to school if you can, these seem the likeliest place to be shot and killed. Which works out cos tuition is so fucking expensive now and the economy is shit so what's the point of going to school anyway?

 

Cynicism aside it would be good to see some studies for each of these possible solutions. Obviously that last one is way too hippie dippie and vague to have any data on, right?

[Npoess]

I've yet to hear a good argument, to why Americans finds it necessary, to have guns easily accessible for everyone. *looks at Smettingham*

 

I know we already had this discussion in a previous thread like this. But I still honestly can't comprehend it. It just seems surreal to me that civilians should be caring firearms. And fuck if it's something you grew up with, and it's part of you're culture or whatever... it's just a bad excuse. It makes no sense that regular people should be allowed to have guns.

 

What, are you still scared the Russians are coming or something?

[gmanyo]

I've yet to hear a good argument, to why Americans finds it necessary, to have guns easily accessible for everyone *looks at Smettingham*.

 

I know we already had this discussion in a previous thread like this. But I still honestly can't comprehend it, it just seems surreal to me that civilians should be caring firearms. And fuck if it's something you grew up with and it's part of you're culture or whatever, it's just a bad excuse. It makes no sense that people should be allowed to have guns.

 

What, are you still scared the Russians are coming or something?

I mean there's hunting I guess. It would be annoying for people who have spent their whole lives on the sport of guns to have it taken away from them, especially for olympic athletes and such. and plus how can u be a gun'sbraster without gun's?

[syd syside]

why can't they just make guns wifi secure, so that if you take them outside of your home, lets say a kid finds his parents gun, the gun won't function... since the majority of guns are apparently bought for home protection. ofc a psycho could figure out how to hack it etc... but it might stop someone who is in a sudden heat of rage from doing anything

[vamos scorcho]

The only responsible thing to do following this shooting is to make a political point, and to make it good. If you care in the least about the death of innocent children, or about the direction the country is headed, and what the country is, or the world, then it's your responsibility as a Liberal thinker to always shout louder than the de-evolved morons who are dominating the airwaves.

 

 

 

 

America in and of itself is inherently violent. Our very policy is not to care about the sick, who we don't know. And to dominate the poor, and to distrust our neighbors. The norm, what we all agree to do, what Republican voters want so badly, as good, white, flag waving, "true American" Christians, is to ignore everyone outside of our family and a few friends, to not give a fuck about those we can't see, and to let who we don't care about die. Republican voters clapped for the death penalty, for letting the sick die. Do you realize how fucked up that is? And that the average Republican thinks this way?

 

Have you seen Starship Troopers? I'm in class with these fascists daily. They're normal people who have awful political beliefs. They can seem nice, and they really are. But their political beliefs are holding the country back. But really, I don't care to "fix" America. America is not in our hands. It has become such a conservative country that even the democrats and "liberals" seem completely oblivious.

 

 

So, as far as I can tell, the Republican party has nearly everything in common with your average neo-Nazi fascist party. There is no longer any distinction whatsoever. It is their policy, their way of thinking, that is holding the country back from stopping the kind of atmosphere that leads to these shootings. Just read that quote about giving teacher's guns. Those are the words of an infantile, near mental retard.

 

They are holding back the education system, holding back saving the planet from global warming, and generally every other problem. Anyone who is a Republican is generally de-evolved. I'm certain of a test that can be done to demonstrate the average IQ of votership, and I can guarantee the numbers will favor the Democrat party.

 

This is a matter of science. The Republican party is holding back progress, and may even be holding us back in such a viscous way as to potentially cause the end of the world due to an inability to reach consensus on global warming.