what should i buy to help me progress as a musician?

[acid1]

I felt like writing a bit more in this thread. And Vamos, I'm not saying anything about your skills, as I think your songs are great already.

 

I went through a few phases as an EKTer. When I started out I just had Buzz, and that was it. I was extremely prolific but felt that something was missing.

 

The next phase was too much software. When i was rocking a PC, i had *ahem* access to anything, and got into a bad cycle where I was using anything under the sun. It was so bad, I don't think I'd make songs unless I was using a new synth or a new effect. As a result, my music production slowed down to a crawl, my music became fancier sounding, but less inspired ... and I probably lost my first PC due to all the software running rampant on my system. After I switched to a Mac, I didn't have this option anymore.

 

My next phase was to get lots of hardware, which I did, but this ended up doing more harm then good as well. I'm on the go with my laptop most of the time, so setting up tons of hardware didn't work for me. I know this works for some people, but I found it a hassle to either write songs all in one go, or re-parameter all my hardware every time I set it up.

 

Finally I said the hell with it about 2 years ago, and tried to make a set up that would work on both my laptop and desktop. The end result was just my DAWs, NI Komplete, and a few other nicknacks. Since then I've found it more fun to try to work within limitations which somehow pushed my creativity over the edge. So somehow, having less options, seemed to help me grow as a musician. I feel I'm actually better at synth programming and mixing now that I've been getting comfy with the same shit I've been using for months. Still figuring out tiny tricks, and mastering my skills.

 

Getting new stuff is always fun, and I'll probably do that for the rest of my life, however I don't think it will help me grow as a musician, its just for fun.

[Uniret]

Suffering is a great motivator

[sergeantk]

I'm seriously happy i read this thread, I was on the verge of splurging on tons of gear but I realize that it is just unnecessary

[LimpyLoo]

"If you can't get a good vocoder sound in Ableton then you're never going to be a good musician!"

 

yeah, great advice

 

You have adequate tools. If a mix is muddy, then it doesn't matter if you LPF all the non-bass instruments on a 80's Peavey parametric EQ or on a Shadow Hills mastering EQ or a FabFilter Pro-Q. If you boost 7Khz by 2db with a very broad Q then it'll pretty much sound good on any EQ.

 

If you slightly compress each instrument to make the mix punchier, then it won't make a huge difference what compressor you use as long as you use your ears to make it sound good. You'll still get to pretty much the same place.

 

 

Great music has bad made on far worse gear than you currently own. That's all I'm sayin'.

 

 

P.S. That Berger/Ink mix can be done very easily (I would wager money it wasn't done using hardware BTW)

 

 

It's all a matter of EQ. If you looked at this mix on a spectral analyzer, I bet you wouldn't see alot of super-high-end (~14khz+) information. Maybe a little bit. But It's 100% a matter of frequency balance. In fact, just try to mimic the EQ curve.

 

I'm (blindly) guessing that your mixes have way too much build-up over ~10khz.

 

You can get this "warmth" and "lushness" with alot of high-end IF it's counterbalanced in the midrange (e.g. 500hz). Otherwise you will get brittle-sounding mixes.

 

So try this: take one of your mixes, boost 500-600hz (or even 200-300hz) by about 2-3db with a fairly broad Q. Then roll-off/shelf the top-end at about 15-16khz. Maybe add some mix-buss "glue" compression (2-3db using conservative, mastering-type setting). And if you have a saturation VST with a "mix" knob, maybe add some in parallel (mix = 50% / 50%). And perhaps insert that before the compressor so that the compressor responds to the added saturation/harmonic information.

 

 

Using an analog mixer will not do any of those things, btw. It will not get you that sound. It will add miniscules amount of transistor non-linearities, but it will not naturally roll-off the high-end for you. That is a natural characteristic of some formats of tape. But if you simply transitioned over to tape you would then be presented with about 10 times more logistical problems than you're facing now, and you would be starting a thread about how to get tight low-end like music made on laptops.

 

 

-LL

[LimpyLoo]

Vamos, do you have the "Premium Tube Series"?

 

 

If so, I'd throw that stuff on the 2-buss and you're golden.

[Guest A/D]

I'm sympathetic to you Vamos. On the one hand, I was happily shocked to read that Charlie Clouser thread when I did (it's a bit of a legend, any electronic musician should read that thread). On the other hand, I'm in a hardware phase now and I'm enjoying how it's changing my workflow. I'm also realistic about how much of an infant it's making me. I know my software tools pretty well. Going hardware is starting over.

 

I think the simple answer is that only you can be in charge of trying the next option and deciding whether to progress from there or go somewhere else. I do firmly believe that you should love your process as much as the finished product, so if you feel like you need a change in process, go for it. Record to cassette or wax cylinder if you can swing it.

 

But what people are reacting to is you sound like you're looking for a magic bullet. The one piece of gear that's going to get you "that sound". The truth is even if you get tape you are going to have to learn just as much to get "that sound" on tape as you are on digital. The process will be different, and yes, something about the sound will probably be different. But it sounds like you want a certain EQ/compression and those things are produced on well-loved tools. If you don't like how your mixes sound, try different compression and EQ. Throw out your tropes & go for a new sound.

[Guest A/D]

edit: you could try http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/msg/3499696675.html this service and see if it makes the difference for you. Upload stems and they'll run it through a Neve console to a Studer for $55.

[vamos scorcho]

I'll forgo the tape cassettes, and mixer. and stick to the gracious advice on EQ. Thanks for the patience guys, as I can see that you were right.

 

As an artist, I still think there is something to be said for the "metaphysical" idea of making computer music a physical presence. Sometimes it seems no matter what is done, it sounds like 1's and 0s. This is in part because of the overly perfect tempo. And my lack of knowledge.

 

In the end, music is a lifelong journey. So maybe after I've mastered this limited set, I can add a real mixer and some mics, and start trying to add drums and more advanced technology as a progression. It's better I guess not to do it all at once.

 

As for how I'm going to spend this "fun money..." probably going to get a Novation Nova or Supernova. Odd choice, maybe. But after obsessing and listening to a shitload of demos, that synth seems most what I'm looking for. It has a very pleasant, round, dub sound quality. Even if I'm deluded or wasting my money, it will satisfy me to know that there is some physical presence on my tracks, plus I've been wanting a synth for a long-ass time and it will satisfy me personally.

[soundwave]

I'm not a musician nor do I pretend to be however my Tenori-On is an excellent ideas generator and saves me physically learning scales, chords, timing and all that other instrument nonsense the machine can do for me at the touch of a button.

 

Its also an excellent random pattern generator and the solo and bounce modes kicks ass.

 

Much more inspiring than clicking a mouse around a screen.

[Squee]

Some good answers were given but the rest of the post is irritation

 

Money isn't going to help here, I agree with that. I need to work harder and more to push the programs I have and actually learn how to use them properly. I'm in almost complete agreement that the stock plugins should be enough for what I'm doing. So that is true...

 

Still I would have liked an actual answer to my question of suggstions what I should spend the 300 dollars I have on... it's Christmas money that will be spent at SAM ASH or online or wherever. It's not like my question was ever, "WHAT CAN I BUY XDXD 2 MAKE ME DO GREAT DRUMS LIKE THE MASTERS." Some people did answer this, but most people came in like, "you need to practice, you peasant amateur bastard."

 

I provided a youtube video around 3 times asking how I could get that SAME SOUND... not an appropriation of it. In other words, I was asking if anyone could give me concrete, actual, specific suggestions of something to buy or look into [in prior threads like this, people have literally identified what the musicians might have used just by listening to the recording... this is exactly what my dream response to my question would be... i will admit now that I am UTTERLY FUCKING AWFUL at communicating exactly what it is I require... I could eliminate 99% of the thread and just restate the post as "what are they using in this track" + "I am going to buy something with 300 dollars or more, and I would love some suggestions, here is where I am at, give me some ideas"... still I do like to have the 99% lying around in case we want to have other tangents to go off on, you can use that as filtration. unfortunately today's Tangents were a little bit... cliche]. I just want to be clear to LimpyLoo that his answers and several others suggesting "get a book and learn how to be a musician" or this or that have nothing really to do with what I was looking for in making this thread.

 

I don't want to confuse shit here. Some good sentences were written, floating around in hyperspace for interpretation from other sources.

I can see how those responses would materialize from the average dumfounded moron who reads the thread title and has no background or interest in reading the thread material itself. I wouldn't read it either if I had no vested interest in giving good advice. lol.

 

 

But still, I'm not an amateur at production or music writing. For the purposes of clarification so maybe you'll know where I'm coming from in wanting to FINISH an ALBUM that will be SOLD and critiqued (not cock measuring) I've been making music for 14 years... since I was a young kid, playing instruments and learning music theory since I was a kid... for the past few years I've been making stuff and I've gotten over the initial humps of "practice EQing" and "learn about mastering and music production in general." Even beyond this, I've been working on counterpoint, constantly studying and listening to advanced music and classical composition, jazz, and esoteric musical theories.

 

but what I am concerned about mainly, is how to finish an audio recording. I Want To Make My Music Physical

 

And I am starting to think nobody reading this really understands what I mean [though to be clear there were several very helpful responses, and even the ones that I'm bitching about in this post have given me another angle to consider: that I need to be pushing the materials I have a lot farther, and that despite my feeling that I am "ready to finish this album...to another plateau" in fact, I do have more learning to do].

 

 

Sini?

 

Anyway, listen... it took me more years than I dare mentioning before I figured out how to make a certain sound/effect.. and no, I'm not gonna tell what sound that was. I asked people around me and all I got was a bunch of vague answers that didn't really help me at all - at least that's what I thought. When finally after a bunch of years found out how I could achieve that sound I felt like such a moron, because all of a sudden what my friends and colleagues had told me made perfect sense. All it took was for me to get better at learning how to use my synths, effects, and so on. So if you want to achieve that certain then it'll take practice. I'm 100% sure that you don't need a specific synth to reproduce that sound you're looking for. All it takes is for you to figure out what does what and how you can get closer to that certain sound.

Try posting your closest attempt at matching the sound and let's see if we can guide/help you and give you suggestions how to make it sound closer to the original source

[Silent Member]

All nice advice here, one thing though, it's incredibly satisfying to have a knobby hardware synth to tweak, you don't get that kind of immediacy and connection with a vst, so do get one. Go to a synth store and try a bunch out, to see which one feels right for you. They all have their own personality, so what's great for one dude could be a shit fit for you.

[ZoeB]

If your boss will allow it, use the money you've saved to have an unpaid week off work and still get groceries and pay rent. Use that week to make music as if it was your career. Put in about sixty solid hours making the best music you can that week. Be methodical about it. Analyse your favourite tracks. Work out chord progressions, melodies, how to get the different instruments to sound like they're talking to each other, and so on. If you can think of a neat idea to try out, try it out right there and then, even if you're in the middle of dinner. Keep working on a given track until you can't think of a single thing that would improve it. Make different mixes and edits of each track. Aim to have a finished album or at least an EP by the end of it. Then shop it around and see if you can get your money back, and then some. Repeat.

[psn]

Send individual tracks out of your soundcard and into a guitar amp. Record it with a close mic. Record it with a distant mic. Record it with and without spring reverb, amp overdrive, etc.

 

Then try to blend these imperfect mic recordings with each other and with the original. Cross fade them and jump between them in the timeline. Pan them.

 

You'll discover lots of potential grit and spatial depth just playing around with this stuff.

[sweepstakes]

I'll admit that I haven't thought this through enough. I'm just going to buy a new tape for my recorder, as well as the Micromodular.

 

I just need to give my music some FUNK. Everything is too perfect. Everything is in its place, the sound is all pristinely recorded. Warmth isn't what I'm looking for... I am looking for FUNK. You know, grit, filth, shit. Soul.

OK I have been trying to stay away from WATMM but I just had to LOL at this.

 

I have a Micro Modular, and while it's great and I love it, I would funky, gritty, and filthy are definitely not the first words that come to mind. You can make it get pretty nasty with some tricks, but by default it sounds precise, deadpan, bright, and warm. The best description I've heard of this sound is "distorted legos". I love fucking around in it but that's mostly what I end up doing with it. It's a synth playground. If you want to hear it in action, here it is by itself with some Octatrack effects: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5z9_4mGl_ekNzh1NmpFa3J0QzQ

 

If you want more funk, I strongly recommend you get a monosynth. Or start using a VST monosynth. I thought they were silly for a long time until I got a Shruthi last year, mostly because the kit was cheap and I wanted to bootstrap my soldering skills. The construction turned out to be a lot more difficult than I had expected/heard, but I was surprised how pleased I was with it when I got it working. Not just the sound (and the Shruthi is definitely funky, gritty, and often filthy) but the interaction with it. It feels so good to play, to keep squeezing out that one note that counts. Words like athletic, agile, and muscular spring to mind. It's a different way of working with sound and for me it's been very satisfying.

 

So, yeah, any monosynth and a keyboard to control it gets my vote.

 

And of course you need to practice and all that. I do too. I'm going to stop berating myself and others about it, though, because that's really no good for motivation. But having fun is.

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

Get a hardware synth.

 

A Roland Alpha Juno 1 can be found for under $300.00.

 

You will be happy.

[LimpyLoo]

Get a hardware synth.

 

A Roland Alpha Juno 1 can be found for under $300.00.

 

You will be happy.

Except with the whole 'programming it' thing.

[zkreso]

It ain't what you got, it's what you do with what you got.

- Moodymann

 

That said, an excellent pair of monitors is probably the best investment if you're struggling with "sound design".

[LimpyLoo]

It ain't what you got, it's what you do with what you got.

- Moodymann

 

That said, an excellent pair of monitors is probably the best investment if you're struggling with "sound design".

Monitors and a treated room.*

 

 

*And by "treated room" I mean literally put up sheets on any hard surfaces to break up reflections.

[luke viia]

Vamos, just turn quantize off, man. Music in a DAW doesn't have a "locked perfect tempo" unless you let the DAW correct your playing. So turn that crap off and get funky.

 

 

(alternatively, you could buy a bunch of hardware and try to get it to communicate, but you'll need to sync their midi clocks. welcome back to the world of robotic rhythm)

[Alcofribas]

If your boss will allow it, use the money you've saved to have an unpaid week off work and still get groceries and pay rent. Use that week to make music as if it was your career. Put in about sixty solid hours making the best music you can that week. Be methodical about it. Analyse your favourite tracks. Work out chord progressions, melodies, how to get the different instruments to sound like they're talking to each other, and so on. If you can think of a neat idea to try out, try it out right there and then, even if you're in the middle of dinner. Keep working on a given track until you can't think of a single thing that would improve it. Make different mixes and edits of each track. Aim to have a finished album or at least an EP by the end of it. Then shop it around and see if you can get your money back, and then some. Repeat.

Zoe B <3

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

Get a hardware synth.

 

A Roland Alpha Juno 1 can be found for under $300.00.

 

You will be happy.

Except with the whole 'programming it' thing.

 

It's not too hard to edit presets with the alpha dial.

 

Even the four "tone modify" buttons on the face of the keyboard can go a long way.

 

There are many software editors too.

 

A Behringer BCR-2000 makes a great (and cheap) hardware programmer as well.

 

[LimpyLoo]

Vamos, just turn quantize off, man. Music in a DAW doesn't have a "locked perfect tempo" unless you let the DAW correct your playing. So turn that crap off and get funky.

 

 

(alternatively, you could buy a bunch of hardware and try to get it to communicate, but you'll need to sync their midi clocks. welcome back to the world of robotic rhythm)

 

Yeah. Turn quantize off.

 

LIsten to Brazilian percussion.

 

Listen to the drums on the slowed-down "

."

[marf]

whatever looks fun to you and gets your juices going. I personally dread using computer software to make music. But some people love it. Its what gets you working. What inspires you. Make it easy for yourself in that area and you'll spend hours playing music and getting better cause you'll be happy

[chim]

Buy some willpower to make the best music with what you've already got. Oh right, that's not for sale.

[Guest Adjective]

i'll add one more echo of the "don't try to buy the sound you want" sentiment.

once i realized that my favorite results were born out of restraints, i learned to stop worrying and love the bomb

 

lately i've been using just:

synth1 vst + drumatic 3 + field recordings + mix stuff from http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/vst-effects

all free stuff

 

put your money toward a healthy diet or something, that should cover all your output