being poor in america

[delet...]

I have a low wage job here .. i get by .. but i imagine that if i was over there that i'd struggle, i'd have to be inventive .. rely on the strength of friends and family just to get by and still be into creative bS.

 

How do you do it ? (not illegally)

[Guest aeser]

fucked up thing is i actually make ok money (like $60k a year with about $12k in bonuses a year) but even just with my wife out of work over a year and her unemployment running out this month we only have like $400 a month past rent/our 1 car/electricity/phone/internet to buy groceries, gas, and anything else with so it's been a struggle. new england is too damn expensive. recently had to drop tv service and shop around for cheaper insurance to even get that much a month.

[Guest Al Hounos]

i don't understand how we do it either.

 

[youtubehd]QPKKQnijnsM[/youtubehd]

[Hoodie]

you can be poor in america, but you can't be poor and have internet/cable/cell phone contract/eating at expensive restaurants/buying new clothes all the time/etc etc. while being able to feed yourself and pay rent. thankfully it's easy to be in debt in america, so just get a few credit cards and you'll be fine.

[Joyrex]

Honestly, America is probably the easiest place in the world to be poor - so many opportunities to be had, but as Hoodie said, you can't have all the modern American conveniences like pay television, brand-name clothes, and eating at restaurants. What complicates things even more is having children - they are by far the biggest financial drain on anyone (poor or otherwise) - that's not a slight against children, just the reality reflecting the costs of raising a child.

 

I think the reason most people who make decent money but still struggle to get by is living beyond their means - they really don't take into account the impact seemingly minor expenditures have, especially over time.

[delet...]

you can be poor in america, but you can't be poor and have internet/cable/cell phone contract/eating at expensive restaurants/buying new clothes all the time/etc etc. while being able to feed yourself and pay rent. thankfully it's easy to be in debt in america, so just get a few credit cards and you'll be fine.

 

but your credit score ?

[auxien]

where i live in America, it's pretty low as far as cost of living goes. i was living relatively comfortably making around 30K a year (no wife, no kids), was close to buying my own house and land even (but even the house was a HUD home, government subsidized reselling essentially). so the government skewing things towards helping the poorer move up could've helped me. i chose to go to school a few years ago though, and since have relied on low wage part time jobs (the only ones locally who will deal with a student's school schedule) and much help from savings, government grants, gov't subsidized loans, a good credit card/credit history and the help of family. without all that, i'd have ended up like many friends, working full time and going to school part time for 6, 7 or 8 years to try and eek out a degree. i still live decent (cell phone, internet, etc) but that won't be possible forever. luckily, i should be in a different situation soon.

 

i can't imagine doing any of these things while supporting a family or kids or anything really, though. i imagine it's similar in America as it is elsewhere, though. you can make it on very little, but it is just making it, ya know? not much luxury or getting ahead.

[delet...]

Honestly, America is probably the easiest place in the world to be poor - so many opportunities to be had, but as Hoodie said, you can't have all the modern American conveniences like pay television, brand-name clothes, and eating at restaurants. What complicates things even more is having children - they are by far the biggest financial drain on anyone (poor or otherwise) - that's not a slight against children, just the reality reflecting the costs of raising a child.

 

I think the reason most people who make decent money but still struggle to get by is living beyond their means - they really don't take into account the impact seemingly minor expenditures have, especially over time.

 

In other words the margin of error for just getting by is rather slim. And consequence of misstep is rather steep. Why are you proud of that ?

[joshuatxuk]

Joyrex points out a lot of struggles are from controllable things - how many kids you have and how much money you waste on commodities and luxuries you don't need. American politics rarely addresses the foolish and irresponsible attitudes of their constituents in their policies. The poorest states in America are often the ones with the least health services to the poor and disadvantaged. The places with the highest birthrates are the ones with the strictest laws forbidding family planning and abortion. It's quite maddening.

 

Like aeser I technically make ok money along with my wife, around 50k a year. We rent a duplex with a fairly good deal month per month. But before my wife got a raise last year we were living paycheck to paycheck. We've started saving money and get rid of our debt, which is shockingly is far less than most Americans, we rarely indulge in things like ordering in food or going to restaurants. We're quite happy though, I think we might move soon to somewhere cheaper for a year or so, but for now things are doing ok (sticking to grocery only foods has made us a lot healthier too). The one shitty thing this year is I owe taxes this year so I'm literally going to fork over $1000 in cash to the government. I can't imagine living in a state with additional state income tax.

 

That's the other thing - the cost of living, minimum wage and worker compensation standards, and overall scope of government services varies greatly from state to state and city to city. 7.25 is the minimum (and that was a recent and controversial raise) but some places legally pay less ($5.15-6.25 in a couple of states) and in Washington it's $9.19 and higher in places like San Francisco.

 

The crazy thing is, a lot of middle class Americans are not only one paycheck from being homeless, many who make far more than I do, say up to $100,000 a year (or $50,000 but in a part of the U.S. with far lower cost of living), have no assets. They are in debt of tens of thousands of dollars, especially with student loans. They are barely paying mortgages on homes they are literally stuck in, especially if the value dropped after the housing bubble, for decades. I disagree a bit with Hoodie on that. So much of the American economy is dependent on keeping people buying things they don't need with money they don't have - and then those companies do their best to get tax exemptions from politicians who complain about the government being in too much debt and rally to cut social services to disadvantaged Americans!

 

 

And on the flipside, I lived at one point without health insurance in the worst fucking neighborhood in a cheap apartment, making roughly about $12,000 from an hourly job. I had been cut off from my parents at the time before I landed a full time job out of college. I remember mentioning the no healthcare part to my dad while he was all angry over "Obamacare" and he said "well I would of taken care of you" to which I replied "that's my point exactly, not everyone has friends and family to rely on private healthcare!" It was surreal seeing people with Lonestar cards (a debit card for people on unemployment they use instead of food stamps) literally use their card then buy booze and the most unhealthy fucking junk food around with $100 dollar bills. A lot of people scam the system, which is aggravating. I'm not one to call for ending the welfare system but it needs a good overhaul and more efficient spending.

[RichieBees]

stop complaiing its the land of opportunity pull yourselfs up by your bootstraps ffs

 

e: if u cant afford shit just die in the street like some chinese fetus or something christ.

[Joyrex]

Joshuatx: Take a look at your deductions on your taxes - you might be withholding too little, hence why you owe.

 

That's by far the biggest problem here in America - far too many people living on welfare, social assistance, etc. who clearly are abusing the system by having more children than they should to get a bigger handout, and then making poor food choices, increasing health care costs, etc. - it's a vicious cycle, and while most people cringe at the thought of it, spending the money to do a proper evaluation of each and every case and whittle out the fraud and negligence will be the only way to break that cycle.

 

Delet: The margin of error would not be that slim if people realized they just can't afford things like other people around them (America seems to be afflicted with this "keeping up with the Joneses attitude" where everyone thinks they can afford what they see their neighbors possessing and/or doing. Ironically, as Joshuatx pointed out, the MORE you make typically puts you more at risk of losing your home, etc. because people (especially middle class people) tend to live far beyond their means, and carry a LOT of debt compared to their income ratio.

stop complaiing its the land of opportunity pull yourselfs up by your bootstraps ffs

 

e: if u cant afford shit just die in the street like some chinese fetus or something christ.

 

What, are you on Ritalin or something? Speak coherently for God's sake.

[Lewps]

As an Australian who has has been living & working in the US for two months now I've found the experience pretty disheartening. I've been stuck in Washington D.C. for over a month and have been working alongside adults who're cutting the same wage as me, I've been living pretty simplistically but am still finding it hard to cope/ save.

Just out of highschool and working my old pizza job back in Sydney was making double what adults here are now, and perhaps will be for the rest of their lives. I'm getting out of here when I have enough dosh for an expedition, searching for odd jobs and agricultural work, the pay may not be much better but at least it will cater to my interests.

[auxien]

That's by far the biggest problem here in America - far too many people living on welfare, social assistance, etc. who clearly are abusing the system by having more children than they should to get a bigger handout, and then making poor food choices, increasing health care costs, etc. - it's a vicious cycle, and while most people cringe at the thought of it, spending the money to do a proper evaluation of each and every case and whittle out the fraud and negligence will be the only way to break that cycle.

 

from what i understand, that is a common misconception. the welfare abusers are few and far between when compared to people who legitimately need help. it is of course a bad thing that it happens at all, but the amount of money necessary to 'weed out' those people would probably be more than it saves the taxpayer-- the recent experiments with drug testing welfare recipients in FL has been written about in many places...and though that is only one example (and recent, so there are lots of factors that may contribute we can't be sure of yet) it seems that it really doesn't do much good at all to make the barriers harder and harder. the opposite, to make opportunities easier and more worthwhile, where the minimum wage is higher, there is less of a HUGE income gap and jobs are more secure and pay off better as one stays there, would seem to be the way to go (from the little i've read and just my own opinion of course).

 

imagine a minimum wage job that starts at (in my low cost of living state) $10 an hour, guaranteed 25-40 hours a week, after 6 months a dollar or two raise, after a year a bump to full time and benefits plus another couple dollars raise? if that was the lowest common denominator here in the south (many other places too i'm sure) people would be all over it, but that's not. the businesses here pay minimum, screw the workers by not allowing them enough hours to necessitate benefits in many cases, and do not reward loyalty to the business because if you quit or they have to fire you, they can hire anyone else at all for the starting wages. it's a cycle they perpetuate and we as workers allow them to. sad on both parts, but it's the truth.

[Guest disparaissant]

very carefully

[joshuatxuk]

Joshuatx: Take a look at your deductions on your taxes - you might be withholding too little, hence why you owe.

 

Oh I totally know why I owe this year, I changed my deductions for this upcoming one. We needed more money at the time to pay for a rent deposit (though the kicker is do to bad timing and some BS contract with our last apartment complex we also had to sell a car to do so) so I knew it was coming this year. To quote Raising Arizona, "Government do take a bite, don't she?"

[RichieBees]

i dont know about the US but in the UK the amount ppl on benefits recieve is far outweighed by the amount of tax rich cunts dont pay.

but i guess rich ppl set the narrative tho so obvs poors and immigrants are the real proble

 

e: ive seen "poor" people and theyve got smart phones and fridges and everything i mean come on u cant be that poor lol

[Guest theSun]

biggest problem now is education. there will always be scumbags cheating the system, the best thing the country can do is provide the ability to prosper through work and innovation. the US populace is pretty stupid overall as a result of an ineffective public k-12 system and a for-profit college system. i don't think anyone will argue that the US is doing education right. the sad thing is that the wealth inequality is directly responsible for so many poor children who literally have no chance to make anything of themselves.

 

dismantling social programs and/or investing in restricting membership to these programs is not going to help anyone in the long term.

 

i think the only thing that will save the american economy at this point is limiting inherited wealth to perhaps $1 million. the money sitting in savings accounts of the "1%" isn't contributing to anything besides a perpetuation of this gross inequality. it should be invested in anything.

[Guest theSun]

i used to be one of those that didn't believe the rich should pay more in taxes and whatnot, but the inequality has gotten very bad in the past 20 years and is only getting worse.

[RichieBees]

i used to be one of those that didn't believe the rich should pay more in taxes and whatnot, but the inequality has gotten very bad in the past 20 years and is only getting worse.

 

no if u tax the rich they will go to anoter country and u wont get any of the money that will trickle down

[delet...]

Delet: The margin of error would not be that slim if people realized they just can't afford things like other people around them (America seems to be afflicted with this "keeping up with the Joneses attitude" where everyone thinks they can afford what they see their neighbors possessing and/or doing

 

This is a cliché that becons to the just aboves. The idea of mcmansions sits well with those just above that. Reality puts paid to this foul disease of the mind. Over the past 35 years, economic growth has only benifited the top 10%. Lately the top 1%. Wages have remained stagnent. Jobs available have transitioned from Full time with benefits, to casual with none. And whenever you hear about job growth, it's usually a casual employee taking on a second (or third) job. Or it's after the christmas quarter (i love it when they drag out this lie).

 

Most people are the same as they have ever been, and live within their means. But unfortunately life intercedes and they have medical bills and kids, and rent. ! Hence credit card bills etc. Have some sympathy or join the devil.

[joshuatxuk]

biggest problem now is education. there will always be scumbags cheating the system, the best thing the country can do is provide the ability to prosper through work and innovation. the US populace is pretty stupid overall as a result of an ineffective public k-12 system and a for-profit college system. i don't think anyone will argue that the US is doing education right. the sad thing is that the wealth inequality is directly responsible for so many poor children who literally have no chance to make anything of themselves.

 

This is true, and many say that then pass budget cuts to education.

 

i used to be one of those that didn't believe the rich should pay more in taxes and whatnot, but the inequality has gotten very bad in the past 20 years and is only getting worse.

 

It's a combination of loopholes and the concept that "the wealthy are getting tax increases" when the actual fact is they weren't getting tax exceptions put in place by Bush removed. Also, having relatives who are finacially secure, hard-working people who make around $250,000 pay the most taxes of anyone I know - They don't earn money literally until around mid-April. The kicker is those most befitting from the current system are the super-rich, those making millions of dollars yearly at the very least. Many literally have laws enacted that benefit them and/or their companies and assets directly.

[joshuatxuk]

 

Delet: The margin of error would not be that slim if people realized they just can't afford things like other people around them (America seems to be afflicted with this "keeping up with the Joneses attitude" where everyone thinks they can afford what they see their neighbors possessing and/or doing

 

This is a cliché that becons to the just aboves. The idea of mcmansions sits well with those just above that. Reality puts paid to this foul disease of the mind. Over the past 35 years, economic growth has only benifited the top 10%. Lately the top 1%. Wages have remained stagnent. Jobs available have transitioned from Full time with benefits, to casual with none. And whenever you hear about job growth, it's usually a casual employee taking on a second (or third) job. Or it's after the christmas quarter (i love it when they drag out this lie).

 

Most people are the same as they have ever been, and live within their means. But unfortunately life intercedes and they have medical bills and kids, and rent. ! Hence credit card bills etc. Have some sympathy or join the devil.

 

It really isn't a cliche - the way I see it I agree with both of you. America is so commodity oriented that there is a sense of false wealth. So many are convinced BY BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES that they must own a home, have cars and boats and stimulate the economy by buying corporate products all of the time. It's never said outright, it's all implied by their rhetoric of the "American dream" and "small businesses" and "main street, USA" and all that nonsensical catchphrase bullshit.

[zkom]

I find it funny how the little amount of welfare in USA is seen as problem in there. In here stuff like drug tests for applicants would be seen an as gross human rights violations. The welfare in general is seen as a stabilizing element in the society. Even if your going to spend your welfare money on drugs you won't be getting the same money by mugging people.

[Guest theSun]

well put delet. as i said, i used to be more on joyrex's line of reasoning but the consolidation of wealth is a serious problem that DC needs to address but won't. the problem isn't with those making 250k, it's with those who have already amassed millions.

 

re:education - one problem is that a college degree only means something if you know what to do with it. everyone knows the liberal arts major who is 50K in debt because they got a BS/BA from a big name 4-year school and never found a job in their field.

 

the biggest problem among my peers in middle class suburban america are overexcited high school counselors and teachers. they convince joe smith that even though he doesn't have a clue what he wants to do for the next 20+ years (who does at 17/18?), he should fork over the 5-30k tuition per semester to figure things out based on the reputation of the institution. it's an extension of the philosophy of throwing money at a problem. you can't just spend yourself up the income ladder, which is something a lot of people believe, if only subconsciously.

[RichieBees]

is it true that americans are brainwashed to hate unions and workers rights etc etc and is this relevant to the discussion?

also this thread is awesome im watching intently