Guest Iain C Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Yet these killers no doubt would like to see the UK adopt a similar legal system to that found in Saudi Arabia. With lashings, hangings, beheadings, stoning and removal of hands handed out by the state. I hear your point and it's a good one, but actually the killers haven't explicitly called for anything of the sort. They said, actually said, that their problem was with British soldiers killing people in Afghanistan and other Muslim nations. There's a clear distinction between the two positions and I don't think they should be muddled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 why are they saying he was beheaded, when he wasnt. help clear up my confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesomeperson Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 This happened just down the road from where I live. Interesting that when a white guy gets stabbed in the street by muslims, it's an existential threat to "our way of life," the PM drops everything and chairs a meeting of "COBRA", the news coverage is relentless and hyperbolic; but when one black teenager stabs another (as happened on a bus in the same area a few months back) it doesn't even make the national news. The media's response has been predictably awful through-and-through, last night I had something like 100 fascists wearing balaclavas marching and rioting 20 minutes down the road from my house, some nazi was arrested for bursting into a mosque with a knife and an "incendiary device," and it seems that life for some of the people I love most is about to become a lot more difficult. This morning a black colleague of mine (not a muslim) told me he was seriously considering claiming his Jamaican passport and leaving this country for good and honestly, I wouldn't blame him. Here we go... at least your black colleague has a home country to fall back to, others don't have the same opportunity. [youtubehd]hfEoCEKIaNE[/youtubehd] A guy getting beheaded (?) in broad daylight by two foreigners shouldn't happen, this shit doesn't happen in Canada. Even Swedes are getting a taste with the ongoing riots happening in Stockholm, it's exactly the same thing everywhere. Canada works because it's mostly East Asians and Indians, if they got West Africans instead of all the Chinese the story would be very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 why are they saying he was beheaded, when he wasnt. help clear up my confusion The confusions of the initial reports, I assume, along with the fact that beheadings are far scarier and more alien than ordinary stabbings-to-death, which are quotidian and carried out by normal people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 again, iain are you suggesting the media made it up? eye witnesses described it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 This happened just down the road from where I live. Interesting that when a white guy gets stabbed in the street by muslims, it's an existential threat to "our way of life," the PM drops everything and chairs a meeting of "COBRA", the news coverage is relentless and hyperbolic; but when one black teenager stabs another (as happened on a bus in the same area a few months back) it doesn't even make the national news. The media's response has been predictably awful through-and-through, last night I had something like 100 fascists wearing balaclavas marching and rioting 20 minutes down the road from my house, some nazi was arrested for bursting into a mosque with a knife and an "incendiary device," and it seems that life for some of the people I love most is about to become a lot more difficult. This morning a black colleague of mine (not a muslim) told me he was seriously considering claiming his Jamaican passport and leaving this country for good and honestly, I wouldn't blame him. Here we go... at least your black colleague has a home country to fall back to, others don't have the same opportunity. [youtubehd]hfEoCEKIaNE[/youtubehd] A guy getting beheaded (?) in broad daylight by two foreigners shouldn't happen, this shit doesn't happen in Canada. Even Swedes are getting a taste with the ongoing riots happening in Stockholm, it's exactly the same thing everywhere. Canada works because it's mostly East Asians and Indians, if they got West Africans instead of all the Chinese the story would be very different. You do understand that my colleague wants to leave the country because he's scared of the EDL and other fash, not of Muslims? again, iain are you suggesting the media made it up? eye witnesses described it. I'm saying it's the sort of detail that is seized upon and widely reported (whether for sensational or ideological reasons) before it can be verified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 why are they saying he was beheaded, when he wasnt. help clear up my confusion because in the heat of things there is confusion. eye witnesses described them trying to hack his head off with machetes. it's now come out they were known by security services and sworn jihadists. also the victim served in afghanistan. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/23/woolwich-latest-developments-live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkaholic Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 wait, that was supposed to be in a quotes box, a friend wrote it on fb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 read this brave lady's account... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/22/woolwich-first-person-account I was just on my way home after a trip to France. I was visiting my children in Plumstead and I had taken a 53 bus to get to Parliament Square where I was going to meet my children and walk to Victoria coach station before getting the coach to Helston in Cornwall. "I was sitting on the lower deck and the bus stopped. I could clearly see a body in the road and a crashed car. I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help. I went over to the body where there was a lady sitting there and she said he was dead. She had comforted him by putting something under his back and a jacket over his head. I took his pulse and there was none. I couldn't see the man's face but I could see no evidence that suggested someone had tried to cut off his head. I could see nothing on him to suggest that he was a soldier. Then a black guy with a black hat and a revolver in one hand and a cleaver in the other came over. He was very excited and he told me not to get close to the body. I didn't really feel anything. I was not scared because he was not drunk, he was not on drugs. He was normal. I could speak to him and he wanted to speak and that's what we did. I spoke to him for more than five minutes. I asked him why he had done what he had done. He said he had killed the man because he [the victim] was a British soldier who killed Muslim women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was furious about the British army being over there. "There was blood on the pavement by the car where the man on the ground had been hit by it. At first there was no blood by the body but as I talked to the man it began to flow which worried me because blood needs a beating heart to flow. But I didn't want to annoy the man by going back to the body. "I asked him what he was going to do next because the police were going to arrive soon. He said it was a war and if the police were coming, he was going to kill them. I asked him if that was a reasonable thing to do but it was clear that he really wanted to do that. He talked about war but he did not talk about dying and then he left to speak to someone else. "I went to speak to the other man who was quieter and more shy. I asked him if he wanted to give me what he was holding in his hand, which was a knife but I didn't want to say that. He didn't agree and I asked him: 'Do you want to carry on?' He said: 'No, no, no.' I didn't want to upset him and then the other man came back to me. I asked him what he wanted to do next. "At that point, there were so many people around that I didn't want him to get scared or agitated. I kept talking to him to keep him occupied. "Then I saw my bus was moving and I knew that the police would arrive very soon. I asked him if there was anything else I could do for him because my bus was about to leave and he said no. "I got on the bus and, after 10 seconds, someone came on and told everyone to get down. I saw a police car pulling up and a police man and policewoman getting out. The two black men ran towards the car and the officers shot them in the legs, I think. "When the shooting started, I was not scared. There weres so many women screaming and crying on the bus, it took me a minute to calm them down. I didn't have a moment to think of myself. "I could see the man with the black hat on was badly hurt as he was being operated on but both were still moving. "The bus then started to move away. They dropped us in the middle of Lewisham which really annoyed me because I had no idea how to get from there to Parliament Square. "I am just happy that I managed to do something that might have prevented more trouble. I feel fine at the moment but I suppose the shock could hit me later." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I know you like to be contrarian Iain, but I'm a bit surprised you aren't more pissed at Islamic extremists. I've completely lost patience with their wankery. That doesn't somehow prevent me from also thinking that white supremacists/ultranationalists are wankers, or obnoxious zionists, or what have you... Basically everyone should join the 21st Century and listen to Autechre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chunky Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 They never should have left their home country and gone to a country whose culture they completely reject. Plenty of muslims were well settled in the UK and got on alright in general? These Nigerian lunatics never should have been able to enter in the first place. Israel has a pretty strict immigration policy, quite sensible really to secure your own nations borders where possible. Wish Britain could have a similar policy. Seeing as we're a tiny little island, it's easier and more suitable for us than a country like Germany or France. The thing is, a handful of influential British jews fear that they will be expelled from our island again, because we kicked them out for hundreds of years once before. So they force multiculturalism on us to protect themselves, without considering the consequences for others. To convince them, we'd need to guarantee that we wouldn't expel jews again, and jews don't really believe people's promises, they believe in hard evidence and reality (you have to really when most of the world can change mood and try to exterminate you at a moment's notice). The only thing to do would be to force the riffraffy types of muslims back to nigeria and other backwaters. We could do a deal and borrow some money from the jews to pay for all the first class return flights. Then we could let the marrano catholics in parliament and the press come out and openly be jews in public as full citizens. We got on with jews pretty well with the British empire etc so there's proof we can get on, maybe help them go steal the land from all the muslims Moshe Dayan-style, but we need to have more say in how they go about it. No more of these lies or sneaking around like pussies. No more stitching up innocent people to be fake terrorists like in Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 They never should have left their home country and gone to a country whose culture they completely reject. Plenty of muslims were well settled in the UK and got on alright in general? These Nigerian lunatics never should have been able to enter in the first place. Israel has a pretty strict immigration policy, quite sensible really to secure your own nations borders where possible. Wish Britain could have a similar policy. Seeing as we're a tiny little island, it's easier and more suitable for us than a country like Germany or France. The thing is, a handful of influential British jews fear that they will be expelled from our island again, because we kicked them out for hundreds of years once before. So they force multiculturalism on us to protect themselves, without considering the consequences for others. To convince them, we'd need to guarantee that we wouldn't expel jews again, and jews don't really believe people's promises, they believe in hard evidence and reality (you have to really when most of the world can change mood and try to exterminate you at a moment's notice). The only thing to do would be to force the riffraffy types of muslims back to nigeria and other backwaters. We could do a deal and borrow some money from the jews to pay for all the first class return flights. Then we could let the marrano catholics in parliament and the press come out and openly be jews in public as full citizens. We got on with jews pretty well with the British empire etc so there's proof we can get on, maybe help them go steal the land from all the muslims Moshe Dayan-style, but we need to have more say in how they go about it. No more of these lies or sneaking around like pussies. No more stitching up innocent people to be fake terrorists like in Boston. I don't even know where to start with this, but for a start there are very few Muslims in Nigeria. It is by and large a Christian country. These attackers, if the reports are to be believed, were raised here as Christians (perhaps they were even born here, it's unclear, they certainly spoke with London accents) and converted relatively recently. Likewise the 7/7 bombers - raised in Britain, British accents, the works. So a tighter immigration policy would have done precisely nothing to prevent these attacks. As for your stuff about jews - change the record, or better yet just fuck off. I'm constantly astonished that you'll find a way to blame them for literally anything. (As an aside, I discovered the other week that my mother's mother's mother was probably Jewish, but converted when she got married and never spoke about it due to the rampant antisemitism of the time. So this time it's personal.) And lumpenprole - I don't like Islamic extremists. I don't have any "patience" for them. But I'm realistic about the threat they face (which is vanishingly small) their prevalence (which is tiny) and disgusted by the racist, divisive and reactionary coverage and political rhetoric and actions that they are used to justify. The EDL and the rest of the fascists in our midst, and their views, represent a far graver threat, not least because they are stoked, appeased and justified by politicians and the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 it's a shame the facepalm is no longer de riguer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Actually I should correct my last post - the proportion of Muslims to Christians in Nigeria is roughly equal, with slightly more Christians. Nevertheless, reports suggest that these guys were recent converts from Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 i have no jewish heritage and i find chunky's anti semitic nonsense offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 i have no jewish heritage and i find chunky's anti semitic nonsense offensive. Every single time, as well. And to be honest the whole "suddenly Jewish" thing is a little surprising, I mean in terms of simple genetics I'm barely Jewish at all (and don't look it, although I was circumcised for medical reasons) but religiously, it passes through the mother so I probably count in the eyes of the faithful. I've never been particularly close to my family but now I'm eager to find out more. The real question is, can I claim Israeli citizenship and start eating the good houmous every day (I wouldn't). Sorry for the derail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 The real question is, can I claim Israeli citizenship and start eating the good houmous every day (I wouldn't). Sorry for the derail you can if you prove the jeweshness of your moms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 new longer video here... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4938719/muslim-fanatics-evil-rant-after-beheading-soldier.html#ooid=NsYnl0YjpAihnTQKlOXYP0AuMGHftw00 The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are dying daily by British soldiers, and this British soldier is one, and it’s an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. By Allah, we swear by the Almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. So what if we want to live by the sharia in Muslim lands. Why does that mean you must follow us and chase us and call us extremists and kill us? Rather, you are extreme. You are the ones. When you talk of bombs, do you think it hits one person? Or rather your bomb wipes out a whole family. This is the reality. By Allah, if I saw your mother today with a buggy, I would help her up the stairs. This is my nature. But we are forced by … many many [sections] throughout the Koran that we must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women had to see this today but in our lands our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your governments. They don't care about you. Do you think David Cameron is gonna get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? Do you think the politicians are gonna die? No, it's gonna be the average guy – like you, and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so you can all live in peace. Leave our lands and you will live in peace. That’s all I have to say. Allah’s peace and blessings be upon you. Salaam alaikum. it's clear from the above that the media actually edited out any reference to religion, muslims or islam for the initial airing of the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Nonsense, the BBC were all over it straight away. Nick Robinson said in an initial report that the men were of "Muslim appearance" (which he has today apologised for, because it's bullshit, they look like average black guys). And when I was watching it unfold on Sky News they were reporting, within about an hour, Met sources speaking about a "link to Islamic extremism" or a similar phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 i'm telling you that early reports had the longer vid cos i saw one of them, then subsequent news reports only showed a heavily edited version which removed all reference to islam. take that however you please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieBees Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 They never should have left their home country and gone to a country whose culture they completely reject. Plenty of muslims were well settled in the UK and got on alright in general? These Nigerian lunatics never should have been able to enter in the first place. Israel has a pretty strict immigration policy, quite sensible really to secure your own nations borders where possible. Wish Britain could have a similar policy. Seeing as we're a tiny little island, it's easier and more suitable for us than a country like Germany or France. The thing is, a handful of influential British jews fear that they will be expelled from our island again, because we kicked them out for hundreds of years once before. So they force multiculturalism on us to protect themselves, without considering the consequences for others. To convince them, we'd need to guarantee that we wouldn't expel jews again, and jews don't really believe people's promises, they believe in hard evidence and reality (you have to really when most of the world can change mood and try to exterminate you at a moment's notice). The only thing to do would be to force the riffraffy types of muslims back to nigeria and other backwaters. We could do a deal and borrow some money from the jews to pay for all the first class return flights. Then we could let the marrano catholics in parliament and the press come out and openly be jews in public as full citizens. We got on with jews pretty well with the British empire etc so there's proof we can get on, maybe help them go steal the land from all the muslims Moshe Dayan-style, but we need to have more say in how they go about it. No more of these lies or sneaking around like pussies. No more stitching up innocent people to be fake terrorists like in Boston. did u fucking hear him he sounded like a london mandem not some fuckin immigrant dude whos just come over why dont you fuck off chunky i hope somehitng horrible happens to u irl so i guess iv been trolled good job watmm: dont post about poo or feet or anyting that reminds people of sexual acts but u can be a complete lunatic racist prick and not get banned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 i'm telling you that early reports had the longer vid cos i saw one of them, then subsequent news reports only showed a heavily edited version which removed all reference to islam. take that however you please. I don't take it as anything, and certainly not any indication of restraint or responsibility on the part of the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 whatever. i have no axe to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 what a bizarre situation this is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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