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I just scrolled up and read the kind words, cheers Sadie and Salvatorin!  Glad I helped in some small way, congrats on discovering yourself!

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Well I didn't know whether there was any point carrying on a 5 year old post... Thank the necromancers. I am not really interested in gender politics, I'm concerned with the government funding aspect of it. I believe it should be a case for private clinics.

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i internally think of myself as a non-binary person but outwardly identify as male bcuz it felt rly weird during the brief period where i was openly presenting as a "they". felt like ppl kept projecting shit onto me - either that i must be some kind of asexual space being, or that i must be rly sexually adventurous & down for whatever whenever with whoever

 

of course identifying as a man i also feel like i'm constantly having roles projected on me that i don't feel inclined to play along with. but at the same time most things commonly associated with higher testosterone levels also feel physically enjoyable & "natural" to me

 

it's all very confusing rly. i feel like a vague cloud of energy & emotions in a human body, thus my trax often feel more like "me" than this physical being

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To be honest, after a decade and a half of having this conversation with cis people, it's a bit boring... why not mix things up a bit?  Why not tell me how your valuable taxpayer dollars/euros/pounds/etc shouldn't have been spent on removing my keloids?  About how you think I'm immoral for letting doctors trim them down a bit at their insistence, even though in my case they're purely an itchy annoyance, not even particularly depressing, let alone life threatening.

 

You can argue that national health insurance shouldn't pay for anything other than immediately life threatening conditions if you really want to.  You can say chemotherapy patients should buy their own wigs, that women who have had mastectomies should buy their own reconstructive surgery, that men with gynecomastia and women with hirsutism should pay for fixing their own endocrinological systems.  But to me, that seems kind of heartless, especially when the people in question are from a minority group still legally discriminated against enough that they often have trouble getting housing and employement despite being qualified, leading to them being particularly poor (especially black visibly trans women, who get arrested just for standing on the street or booking into a hotel, things which I would like to note are not crimes).  But that's just me, I guess.

 

As for that guy turning out to be a neo-Nazi, it shouldn't be too surprising how often someone who falls into the trap of transphobia, homophobia, sexism, or racism, then doubles down and gets caught up in all the others too, in increasingly extreme ways.

 

It has not been a good two years, politically.

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Well I didn't know whether there was any point carrying on a 5 year old post... Thank the necromancers. I am not really interested in gender politics, I'm concerned with the government funding aspect of it. I believe it should be a case for private clinics.

I agree

 

edit: keyword balance

Edited by MIXL2
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To be honest, after a decade and a half of having this conversation with cis people, it's a bit boring... why not mix things up a bit?  Why not tell me how your valuable taxpayer dollars/euros/pounds/etc shouldn't have been spent on removing my keloids?  About how you think I'm immoral for letting doctors trim them down a bit at their insistence, even though in my case they're purely an itchy annoyance, not even particularly depressing, let alone life threatening.

 

You can argue that national health insurance shouldn't pay for anything other than immediately life threatening conditions if you really want to.  You can say chemotherapy patients should buy their own wigs, that women who have had mastectomies should buy their own reconstructive surgery, that men with gynecomastia and women with hirsutism should pay for fixing their own endocrinological systems.  But to me, that seems kind of heartless, especially when the people in question are from a minority group still legally discriminated against enough that they often have trouble getting housing and employement despite being qualified, leading to them being particularly poor (especially black visibly trans women, who get arrested just for standing on the street or booking into a hotel, things which I would like to note are not crimes).  But that's just me, I guess.

 

As for that guy turning out to be a neo-Nazi, it shouldn't be too surprising how often someone who falls into the trap of transphobia, homophobia, sexism, or racism, then doubles down and gets caught up in all the others too, in increasingly extreme ways.

 

It has not been a good two years, politically.

A lot of things could be financed through a financial transaction tax of around 0,5%. Means a tax of 0,5% on every transaction that is done. It would mostly affect people who do financial speculation and do hundreds of transactions operated by computers everyday. This could enable societies to establish an unconditional basic income and a very good national health insurance that could cover all kinds of stuff such as sex transformations, also it could partly replace income tax. 

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ZoeB was very kind and measured in this thread in response to Lumpy, who funny enough came out as a white nationalist jagoff since then.

 

Kind of funny for a guy that grew up clearly affluent in San Francisco and then moved to China and married a prostitute.

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As for that guy turning out to be a neo-Nazi, it shouldn't be too surprising how often someone who falls into the trap of transphobia, homophobia, sexism, or racism, then doubles down and gets caught up in all the others too, in increasingly extreme ways.

 

It has not been a good two years, politically.

 

I watched it happen gradually in his posts over on Fred's Island for Misfit Toys™ (oldschool wattm graveyard forum), it was really disappointing because I enjoyed reading his stories and commentary but eventually it became to noxious to put up with.

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i internally think of myself as a non-binary person but outwardly identify as male bcuz it felt rly weird during the brief period where i was openly presenting as a "they". felt like ppl kept projecting shit onto me - either that i must be some kind of asexual space being, or that i must be rly sexually adventurous & down for whatever whenever with whoever

 

of course identifying as a man i also feel like i'm constantly having roles projected on me that i don't feel inclined to play along with. but at the same time most things commonly associated with higher testosterone levels also feel physically enjoyable & "natural" to me

 

it's all very confusing rly. i feel like a vague cloud of energy & emotions in a human body, thus my trax often feel more like "me" than this physical being

 

that's cool, like the asexual thing, I bet the Autechre fanbase would be way more likely to be kind of asexual at least at times more than "wants to marry their TI calculator", there's probably subconscious societal pressure that people have to have sexy thoughts or something, but yeah sure asexual people exist

 

the internet porn comment wasn't meant to be insulting, I just wonder at times how much hypocritical behavior, again the 'virtue signalling' type stuff would be revealed through Pornhub statistics/actual demographics attached to users. How many transphobic people would be having it both ways with their porn habits. Also I swear knowing industry stuff would be hecking interesting, is "twink" stuff specifically marketed to 172-year old German men who are ostensibly happily married and are gonna carry the gay feelings to their deathbed

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I just scrolled up and read the kind words, cheers Sadie and Salvatorin! Glad I helped in some small way, congrats on discovering yourself!

Cheers! Thanks for your posts in the thread. I have all sorts of doubts still since I just came out and like others I wasn’t DIRECTLY thinking about being trans for long before I started to dressing like a woman. Let me know if you’re down to answer questions or whatever, I’ve got tons and only really one trans woman to talk to whose experience is waaaaay different from mine.

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but yeah sorry, I should just say I support anyone on here who wants to be trans. It's 2018 and plenty of things should be accepted by now, I keep ranking on conspiracy videos on Youtube but it's disheartening how many people are turning into their own granpas in their private lives/thoughts

 

I don't want to say much but certain scenes seem to have plenty of trans people (even trans men) in spite of their getting trolled it seems pretty tolerant about those things

Edited by Ragnar
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At first I felt nostalgic seeing Lumpenprol\s avatar but after reading this thread again all that's left is the sour and salty taste of his personality and the thought "what a fucking dick".

 

lol yeah he pretty much buried himself alive in this thread.  His half of the convo was quite painful to read.  But it lead to a lot of very eye opening and insightful responses from ZoeB.  It actually broadened my perspective quite a bit.  So thanks Zoe! (...and Lumpy too, in a weird way...) 

 

Also, congrats to Sadie for coming out!

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Congrats Sadie for finding your true identity!

 

And Zoe, you're a champion as always.

 

i internally think of myself as a non-binary person but outwardly identify as male bcuz it felt rly weird during the brief period where i was openly presenting as a "they". felt like ppl kept projecting shit onto me - either that i must be some kind of asexual space being, or that i must be rly sexually adventurous & down for whatever whenever with whoever

of course identifying as a man i also feel like i'm constantly having roles projected on me that i don't feel inclined to play along with. but at the same time most things commonly associated with higher testosterone levels also feel physically enjoyable & "natural" to me

Honestly this is pretty close to my experience. I had a brief phase of wanting to be a girl when I was around 5 years old; I think I either forgot about it or my parents pushed the "don't be silly, you're a boy" enough that it passed. 

 

Since then I never really had any feelings of gender dysphoria, but have had phases of wearing light makeup, nail polish etc.. I largely gave that up a while ago though as I kept attracting unwanted attention (even harmless stuff like colleagues noticing my painted nails etc makes me feel uncomfortable). I've come to the conclusion that I'm still fine presenting as a man but just hope someday society as a whole will catch up and be ok with men not absolutely requiring typical masculine traits.. then again wouldn't it be cool to one day be able to simply get in a machine and emerge as a fully functional person of the opposite sex.. sign me up if that is ever the case.

 

I still do kinda wonder what would have happened if I were born 15–20 years later to more open-minded parents and had the same "phase" at age 5..

 

 

As an aside, I'm still getting used to the whole agender/non-binary thing and still feel uncomfortable using neutral pronouns. I'm sure this will pass someday though; at least I hope so. I have tons of trans and enby friends now and don't want to come across as some kind of ignorant douchebag.

Edited by modey
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Let me know if you’re down to answer questions or whatever

 

I'm always down to answer sincere questions.  Feel free to PM me.

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ummmm again about online 'scenes', people don't understand past the weird triggering stuff, that people on that community are sometimes inclined to form an identity around orientation and transgender stuff which is both common. About the agender/non-binary thing, somebody might be inclined to like play a frog or something because it's sort of smooth, not strong gender characteristics without being child like necessarily? It's still weird but you can see where it's tied into what they want to identify as in real life

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I've come to the conclusion that I'm still fine presenting as a man but just hope someday society as a whole will catch up and be ok with men not absolutely requiring typical masculine traits

yeah that's about where i'm at. i don't dislike being male, i just want to be able to engage in certain behaviours that come naturally to me without my entire life thus then being perceived as a political statement. and i want to be able to not engage in certain other behaviours that feel weird & foreign to me without being labelled as someone who's failing at "being a man".
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i was convinced your username was 'cryptwomen' for years, dunno if that helps

lol a few weeks ago a friend was doing a trick with a pendulum where it would sway side to side over things with [redominantly "male" energy, and in a circle over predominantly "female" energy, and i was the only person over where it didn't sway in agreeance with the biological gender when placed over the palm

 

i mean it's crystals & pendulums so pretty scientifically accurate imo

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I had been hating being a guy for ages and I wanted to go all “fuck gender” and be referred to as whatever pronouns. Then I realized I just wanted to be a girl.

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tbh I'm not a terribly masculine looking guy, I like my hair long but some of that is like Aphex worship or something. I don't particularly care how I come across but never felt compelled to dress that way really, but I'd definitely go into androgyny just naturally/by accident

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yeah that's about where i'm at. i don't dislike being male, i just want to be able to engage in certain behaviours that come naturally to me without my entire life thus then being perceived as a political statement. and i want to be able to not engage in certain other behaviours that feel weird & foreign to me without being labelled as someone who's failing at "being a man".

 

To be honest, that sounds perfectly normal to me, and it's toxic masculinity that's weird.  Just do what you want and don't worry about the haters, you know?  If you're confident (or can fake it), you'll be more secure in yourself than certain men, and their problem with that is just that, their problem.

 

Also, welcome to the world of being seen as anything other than a cishet white guy and your presentation and actions being scrutinised as if you're constantly making a political statement on behalf of whole groups of people.

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yeah that's about where i'm at. i don't dislike being male, i just want to be able to engage in certain behaviours that come naturally to me without my entire life thus then being perceived as a political statement. and i want to be able to not engage in certain other behaviours that feel weird & foreign to me without being labelled as someone who's failing at "being a man".

To be honest, that sounds perfectly normal to me, and it's toxic masculinity that's weird. Just do what you want and don't worry about the haters, you know? If you're confident (or can fake it), you'll be more secure in yourself than certain men, and their problem with that is just that, their problem.

 

Also, welcome to the world of being seen as anything other than a cishet white guy and your presentation and actions being scrutinised as if you're constantly making a political statement on behalf of whole groups of people.

My confusion is along these lines because I don’t actually totally hate everything about being a guy; I look in the mirror, see a dude face, and go “eh, why not”. But then I dressed up like a girl and cried tears of joy for an hour straight. Literally the happiest I have ever been in my entire life. But now that feeling is fading and I can’t tell if maybe I’m just gender fluid or something or if it’s just because it’s becoming harder to convince myself I’m a girl.

 

Also is it normal to feel nervous about changing genders? Sometimes someone calls me she and it feels great, other times it makes me nervous, like I’m losing something. I never feel great about being a guy, and often I hate it, especially in a relationship, but a lot of the time it feels pretty okay. I want to just say I’m trans and be a girl, but it seems this isn’t entirely motivated by a desire to be a girl; maybe to avoid the embarrassment of having said that I was trans and renegging on this.

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