Transgender

[Salvatorin]

it's defo easier to just ditch the binary if you already know society will probably always regard one's self as an oddity

[dingformung]

Also I’m terrible at understanding that my feelings change. Whatever I feel right now MUST be how I feel ultimately, according to my brain. This means when I’m feeling okay dressed like a guy for a couple hours I think “HOLY SHIT I MUST NOT BE TRANS IM LYING TO MYSELF”

 How does a guy dress? And if a guy dresses unlike a guy dresses is he still a guy and if not why?

[KovalainenFanBoy]

 

Also I’m terrible at understanding that my feelings change. Whatever I feel right now MUST be how I feel ultimately, according to my brain. This means when I’m feeling okay dressed like a guy for a couple hours I think “HOLY SHIT I MUST NOT BE TRANS IM LYING TO MYSELF”

 How does a guy dress? And if a guy dresses unlike a guy dresses is he still a guy and if not why? Justify your answers [2 points]

 

[dingformung]

2/2

[chenGOD]

 

I've come to the conclusion that I'm still fine presenting as a man but just hope someday society as a whole will catch up and be ok with men not absolutely requiring typical masculine traits

yeah that's about where i'm at. i don't dislike being male, i just want to be able to engage in certain behaviours that come naturally to me without my entire life thus then being perceived as a political statement. and i want to be able to not engage in certain other behaviours that feel weird & foreign to me without being labelled as someone who's failing at "being a man".

I’m very curious about what roles you are expected to perform as men that you dislike and that you get shit for? Honestly curious not trolling.

 

I had a vague experience where my gf had painted my toenails in advance of an ultimate tournament (competitive, not a hippy fest) and one of the guys on my team said something along the lines of “Jesus do you even date”. It was really weird that even that small difference triggered him.

 

Anyways so yeah, what expected male performative roles do you guys dislike?

[chenGOD]

the internet porn comment wasn't meant to be insulting, I just wonder at times how much hypocritical behavior, again the 'virtue signalling' type stuff would be revealed through Pornhub statistics/actual demographics attached to users. How many transphobic people would be having it both ways with their porn habits. Also I swear knowing industry stuff would be hecking interesting, is "twink" stuff specifically marketed to 172-year old German men who are ostensibly happily married and are gonna carry the gay feelings to their deathbed

Porn is the most highly niche targeted demographic out there for sure.

Speaking on the hypocritical thing, I remember reading the comment on some Japanese video along the lines of “I hate Japanese porn cause the cocks are so small, but love the women blah blah blah...” and thinking “why do you, as a guy who clearly wants to represent as a heterosexual male, care at all about the aesthetic of the cocks?”

[Ragnar]

 

the internet porn comment wasn't meant to be insulting, I just wonder at times how much hypocritical behavior, again the 'virtue signalling' type stuff would be revealed through Pornhub statistics/actual demographics attached to users. How many transphobic people would be having it both ways with their porn habits. Also I swear knowing industry stuff would be hecking interesting, is "twink" stuff specifically marketed to 172-year old German men who are ostensibly happily married and are gonna carry the gay feelings to their deathbed

Porn is the most highly niche targeted demographic out there for sure.

Speaking on the hypocritical thing, I remember reading the comment on some Japanese video along the lines of “I hate Japanese porn cause the cocks are so small, but love the women blah blah blah...” and thinking “why do you, as a guy who clearly wants to represent as a heterosexual male, care at all about the aesthetic of the cocks?”

 

 

the hetero porn industry is almost entirely propped up by the BBC (I mean the British network)

 

also was one of the comments I wanted to make, how much of that particular porn usage would be....... red states

 

 

 

cocks are important in porn mang even hetero porn, it is about the aesthetic, porn is the whole 'package' (lol package)

[gmanyo]

 

the internet porn comment wasn't meant to be insulting, I just wonder at times how much hypocritical behavior, again the 'virtue signalling' type stuff would be revealed through Pornhub statistics/actual demographics attached to users. How many transphobic people would be having it both ways with their porn habits. Also I swear knowing industry stuff would be hecking interesting, is "twink" stuff specifically marketed to 172-year old German men who are ostensibly happily married and are gonna carry the gay feelings to their deathbed

Porn is the most highly niche targeted demographic out there for sure.

Speaking on the hypocritical thing, I remember reading the comment on some Japanese video along the lines of “I hate Japanese porn cause the cocks are so small, but love the women blah blah blah...” and thinking “why do you, as a guy who clearly wants to represent as a heterosexual male, care at all about the aesthetic of the cocks?”

Funny how I always hated cocks in porn even though later I found out I was bi and loved em. Turns out I just hated guys and couldn’t stand their presence in hetero porn, but both gay and lesbian porn were great.

 

Also found out that while I love lesbian porn, I don’t think of it like guys do at all. I like lesbian porn made for lesbians, not for guys.

[Ragnar]

no but it's hilarious that genre is all abbreviated, like 'the words that must not be spoken, to preserve our feelings of total hetero"

[Ragnar]

um while we're talking about ultra specific niche porn genres

 

https://melmagazine.com/models-motors-and-mud-23324d1530c1

 

Germany

 

holy lol the guys name is Goebbels

 

I think there is like another site like this also based out of Germany, lol

[Candiru]

 

Modern gender studies tend to deconstruct gender in a way that there aren't only two but infinite genders which are not in any form related to biological sex. So why is changing your body in a way that it imitates the appearance of a body of the opposite sex helping with feeling more "male" or "female" when "male" and "female" are genders of which in fact infinite exist? It seems that trans* people believe in a binary gender order in which sex goes along with gender identity and gender role and therefore hold onto a heteronormative idea which is the basis for their own discrimination.

lol

But in all seriousness. If society’s ideas of gender are oppressive, why do something so drastic just to fit into that other category? I’ve never understood it.

[dingformung]

Also this: https://lithub.com/do-we-even-need-men/ 

 

 

[gmanyo]

 

 

Modern gender studies tend to deconstruct gender in a way that there aren't only two but infinite genders which are not in any form related to biological sex. So why is changing your body in a way that it imitates the appearance of a body of the opposite sex helping with feeling more "male" or "female" when "male" and "female" are genders of which in fact infinite exist? It seems that trans* people believe in a binary gender order in which sex goes along with gender identity and gender role and therefore hold onto a heteronormative idea which is the basis for their own discrimination.

lol

But in all seriousness. If society’s ideas of gender are oppressive, why do something so drastic just to fit into that other category? I’ve never understood it.

My view is this, though I don’t know much. As someone oppressed by the system, taking action that adheres to a component of said system is a legitimate way of dealing with being oppressed, even if it does “follow the rules” in some way. Like I said before, I had wanted to just go fuck gender, but then I realized my insecurities could be helped by actually identifying as the other binary gender. This is, in one sense, actually a rebellion since it is fighting against a system which tries to keep one in a certain position, even if that’s by adhering to another part of the system. The system tries to keep trans folk down, so many do something the system didn’t expect.

 

I’m timid about using analogies to people of color, so someone call me out if I’m wrong here. It kind of reminds me of women of color getting weaves. Why should they have to change their hair to feel beautiful by making it like white hair? And yet I support any woman (or even man) of color getting a weave in order to beat the system and feel beautiful.

 

Don’t blame the oppressed here. Blame the system.

[Ragnar]

Also this: https://lithub.com/do-we-even-need-men/ 

 

I mean maybe it's true, but the author is a man, maybe he's watching bear dudes behind the scenes and more "virtue signalling" like not only does /he/ "need men" it's like Guy Fieri fanfics

[Ragnar]

no seriously curious if the guy is gay or not, if he was ostensibly hetero and like obsessed with reproduction and 'men not needing to exist' that could be fucking horrifying denial situation, lol

 

it might be a good point but possibly horrible motivations for writing about it lol

[dingformung]

I don't know, maybe he has a lot of misandrist lesbian friends

[dingformung]

 

 

 

Modern gender studies tend to deconstruct gender in a way that there aren't only two but infinite genders which are not in any form related to biological sex. So why is changing your body in a way that it imitates the appearance of a body of the opposite sex helping with feeling more "male" or "female" when "male" and "female" are genders of which in fact infinite exist? It seems that trans* people believe in a binary gender order in which sex goes along with gender identity and gender role and therefore hold onto a heteronormative idea which is the basis for their own discrimination.

lol

But in all seriousness. If society’s ideas of gender are oppressive, why do something so drastic just to fit into that other category? I’ve never understood it.

My view is this, though I don’t know much. As someone oppressed by the system, taking action that adheres to a component of said system is a legitimate way of dealing with being oppressed, even if it does “follow the rules” in some way. Like I said before, I had wanted to just go fuck gender, but then I realized my insecurities could be helped by actually identifying as the other binary gender. This is, in one sense, actually a rebellion since it is fighting against a system which tries to keep one in a certain position, even if that’s by adhering to another part of the system. The system tries to keep trans folk down, so many do something the system didn’t expect.

 

I’m timid about using analogies to people of color, so someone call me out if I’m wrong here. It kind of reminds me of women of color getting weaves. Why should they have to change their hair to feel beautiful by making it like white hair? And yet I support any woman (or even man) of color getting a weave in order to beat the system and feel beautiful.

 

Don’t blame the oppressed here. Blame the system.

 

I was mostly taking the piss with that comment but in a way transitioning (in the sense of attempting to change sex) really mildly contradicts a non-binary view on gender and supports the heteronormative idea of connectedness of sex and gender. "The system" is a relatively vague term. If you mean traditional gender roles, yes, screw them. If you mean Western societies' view on gender, well, I don't know. Most people I came across with accept trans* people, even the political right might dislike trans* humans but don't really want to harm them anymore. But that's just the West. Might be wrong

[xox]

does term ipsigender exist?

[gmanyo]

 

 

 

 

Modern gender studies tend to deconstruct gender in a way that there aren't only two but infinite genders which are not in any form related to biological sex. So why is changing your body in a way that it imitates the appearance of a body of the opposite sex helping with feeling more "male" or "female" when "male" and "female" are genders of which in fact infinite exist? It seems that trans* people believe in a binary gender order in which sex goes along with gender identity and gender role and therefore hold onto a heteronormative idea which is the basis for their own discrimination.

lol

But in all seriousness. If society’s ideas of gender are oppressive, why do something so drastic just to fit into that other category? I’ve never understood it.

My view is this, though I don’t know much. As someone oppressed by the system, taking action that adheres to a component of said system is a legitimate way of dealing with being oppressed, even if it does “follow the rules” in some way. Like I said before, I had wanted to just go fuck gender, but then I realized my insecurities could be helped by actually identifying as the other binary gender. This is, in one sense, actually a rebellion since it is fighting against a system which tries to keep one in a certain position, even if that’s by adhering to another part of the system. The system tries to keep trans folk down, so many do something the system didn’t expect.

 

I’m timid about using analogies to people of color, so someone call me out if I’m wrong here. It kind of reminds me of women of color getting weaves. Why should they have to change their hair to feel beautiful by making it like white hair? And yet I support any woman (or even man) of color getting a weave in order to beat the system and feel beautiful.

 

Don’t blame the oppressed here. Blame the system.

I was mostly taking the piss with that comment but in a way transitioning (in the sense of attempting to change sex) really mildly contradicts a non-binary view on gender and supports the heteronormative idea of connectedness of sex and gender. "The system" is a relatively vague term. If you mean traditional gender roles, yes, screw them. If you mean Western societies' view on gender, well, I don't know. Most people I came across with accept trans* people, even the political right might dislike trans* humans but don't really want to harm them anymore. But that's just the West. Might be wrong

I meant the heteropatriarchy but didn’t want to sound like an sjw asshole.

[Candiru]

I have no ill will, but at the same time, I don’t understand what’s it’s like to have gender dysphoria, how you know what the opposite gender feels like to be, which is very subjective and I honestly think is impossible for someone born male to know at all. I can’t even say I know what other men feel like. I’m just myself.

 

But also, the Lana Wachowski speech doesn’t help. It comes across as a gamergate guy in drag portraying a woman in the misguided way he’s always seen them. It seems more than a little odd that she was chosen as an example, nevermind Caitlyn Jenner. I know there are more sincere trans people than that, like Contra Points and random people in my area who seem like they’re just going about their lives.

[Ragnar]

 

 

 

 

 

Modern gender studies tend to deconstruct gender in a way that there aren't only two but infinite genders which are not in any form related to biological sex. So why is changing your body in a way that it imitates the appearance of a body of the opposite sex helping with feeling more "male" or "female" when "male" and "female" are genders of which in fact infinite exist? It seems that trans* people believe in a binary gender order in which sex goes along with gender identity and gender role and therefore hold onto a heteronormative idea which is the basis for their own discrimination.

lol

But in all seriousness. If society’s ideas of gender are oppressive, why do something so drastic just to fit into that other category? I’ve never understood it.

My view is this, though I don’t know much. As someone oppressed by the system, taking action that adheres to a component of said system is a legitimate way of dealing with being oppressed, even if it does “follow the rules” in some way. Like I said before, I had wanted to just go fuck gender, but then I realized my insecurities could be helped by actually identifying as the other binary gender. This is, in one sense, actually a rebellion since it is fighting against a system which tries to keep one in a certain position, even if that’s by adhering to another part of the system. The system tries to keep trans folk down, so many do something the system didn’t expect.

 

I’m timid about using analogies to people of color, so someone call me out if I’m wrong here. It kind of reminds me of women of color getting weaves. Why should they have to change their hair to feel beautiful by making it like white hair? And yet I support any woman (or even man) of color getting a weave in order to beat the system and feel beautiful.

 

Don’t blame the oppressed here. Blame the system.

I was mostly taking the piss with that comment but in a way transitioning (in the sense of attempting to change sex) really mildly contradicts a non-binary view on gender and supports the heteronormative idea of connectedness of sex and gender. "The system" is a relatively vague term. If you mean traditional gender roles, yes, screw them. If you mean Western societies' view on gender, well, I don't know. Most people I came across with accept trans* people, even the political right might dislike trans* humans but don't really want to harm them anymore. But that's just the West. Might be wrong

I meant the heteropatriarchy but didn’t want to sound like an sjw asshole.

 

 

ha the post before but seriously, maybe it would be more interesting for a gay guy to say "men don't need to exist"

[dingformung]

 

ha the post before but seriously, maybe it would be more interesting for a gay guy to say "men don't need to exist"

 Yeah, Freud'd have fun

[Ragnar]

 

 

ha the post before but seriously, maybe it would be more interesting for a gay guy to say "men don't need to exist"

 Yeah, Freud'd have fun

 

 

and then like I said, if it was nohomo motivated, "men don't need to exist.......... REALLY THEY DON'T (blarg help it's raining men in my brain constantly)"

[dingformung]

so many dix argh

[modey]

Also, welcome to the world of being seen as anything other than a cishet white guy and your presentation and actions being scrutinised as if you're constantly making a political statement on behalf of whole groups of people.

 

 

fkn spot on. My brief phases of my presentation being different to the "norm" have given me so much more respect for enby and trans people, as well as cis women who largely are judged on the way they present themselves. I gave up where other people have kept going, and I respect that level of bravery/don't-give-a-fuck-ness even in situations where it isn't a choice.

 

And for the record, I didn't intend for my experience to compare to actual trans people, so sorry if that sounded ignorant.

 

 How does a guy dress? And if a guy dresses unlike a guy dresses is he still a guy and if not why?

 

 

Boringly. Have you seen men's corporate attire lately? It's fkn horribly bland.

 

It's expected that men don't give a fuck about how they dress. Either that, or put effort into looking like you don't give a fuck. Either way, I've found that the expectation is for men to dress boring and utilitarian; anything more than that and they are labeled as gay/trans, or in the early 2000s, "metrosexual" which is a term I fucking hate.

 

Fortunately I didn't get quite as much negative attention as some of my friends have, but I have definitely had strangers tell me/assume I'm gay multiple times in public. 

 

I once had a guy come up to me while I was wearing a fairly muted/dark teal blazer + teal jeans with a black band t-shirt and bright blue shoes and say something like "I hope my kids don't end up dressing like you". wtf man

 

I’m very curious about what roles you are expected to perform as men that you dislike and that you get shit for? Honestly curious not trolling.

I had a vague experience where my gf had painted my toenails in advance of an ultimate tournament (competitive, not a hippy fest) and one of the guys on my team said something along the lines of “Jesus do you even date”. It was really weird that even that small difference triggered him.

 

Anyways so yeah, what expected male performative roles do you guys dislike?

 

Beyond physical presentation, for me it's largely to do with outdated stereotypes, which unfortunately a lot of people still believe in ("what do you mean you don't like sports? you must be some kind of queer" etc). And I would admit as well, that a lot of it is probably in my head, and mostly surfaces when we have to get an electrician or other "tradie" in to fix something in the house lol—I feel like I have to justify my "man-ness" around them. It's silly I know but I feel like society in general is at least partly to blame.