Transgender

[auxien]

Lmao span I like u

 

^^ ZoeB/Sadie/others, good to see people feel comfortable enough to open up with one another here. Nasty shit bubbling up all the time on the forum but glad there's some good, honest, open feels too.

[ZoeB]

But in all seriousness. If society’s ideas of gender are oppressive, why do something so drastic just to fit into that other category? I’ve never understood it.

 

This is a common misconception, so let's take this opportunity to dissect it.

 

First off, we don't want to argue semantics, so let's clarify the different things we might mean by the ambiguous word "gender":

 

We might mean gender orientation, our innate sense of whether we're a woman or a man or somewhere in between on that spectrum.

 

Or we might mean gender presentation, the way we dress and our mannerisms, which is often similar to how other people of our own gender orientation present.  This may or may not also be different based on your sexuality.  (See, for example, butch women and femme men, but not femme women and butch men.)  And may or may not also be different anyway.  (See, for example, a straight woman with short hair who gets mistaken for gay because she's a bit gender-non-conforming.)

 

Or we might mean gender roles, the stereotypes about what kinds of things we're supposed to do because of our gender orientation.

 

(This isn't even getting into the concept of gender identity, as that one always felt a bit superfluous to me.  I don't "identify" as a woman.  I'm a woman.  The same way I don't "identify" as a lesbian, I'm a lesbian.)

 

So, if, for instance, your gender orientation is that you're a woman, you probably (perhaps even by definition) will feel more comfortable in a hormonally female body than a male one.  If you're a man, you'll conversely likely feel more comfortable in a hormonally male body.  In other words, if you're a woman, you probably don't want hirsutism.  If you're a man, you probably don't want gynecomastia.  That's true for cis people, and it's also true for trans people.  So fixing any endocrinological issues to ensure you're comfortable in your own body is always a good idea.

 

So, if you're a cis man, and you can imagine that you wouldn't like having gynecomastia, and you can feel empathy for a fellow cis man who has it, then I'd urge you to extend that empathy to a trans man who essentially has an even worse hormonal imbalance.

 

So, next up we can look at gender presentation.  Say, for argument's sake, that you wear trousers instead of skirts, you don't wear make-up, and you walk with the gait of someone who assumes other people will move out of his way as needed, probably without consciously realising it.  Say that you have three or four friends who all do these things.  Maybe one has long hair, but even that's well within acceptable parameters of what men are allowed to do, according to other, less enlightened men, who feel obliged to provoke anyone who falls out of line.  Maybe one of your friends is gay and recognisably so with his mannerisms, but even then, in a way that would never get him mistaken for a woman.  All in all, it's a nice group of friends.  You go drinking together.

 

Then one of your friends (it could be any of them) confides in you that he's actually a trans man.  This surprises you, as he's a perfectly normal man, starting to bald, and he's always been able to grow a better beard than you in fact.  All of a sudden you're outraged!  Why did he change his hormonal sex?  He explains it was to feel comfortable in his own body.  Fine, but why does he dress like a man?  Because he is a man.  But why does he have a beard?  Why do you have one?

 

How come you're allowed to do all these things without feeling guilty that you're "upholding the gender binary", but he's not?  If you really think one of you two should feel obliged to shave his beard off on the general principle that beards are shamelessly upholding the gender binary, then shave off your own.  He likes his, he's keeping it thank you very much.

 

I believe the technical term for this is a double standard.  Cis people can present how they want without question.  But if a trans person... well, exists... then it's scrutinised.  I'm a trans woman, so some people online assume I'm ultra-femme and the reason I fixed my body was in order to always wear dresses.  Anyone who's met me, on the other hand, knows I usually just wear a t-shirt and jeans, all clothes that are a good size for my feminine body but pretty neutral.  Not especially butch, but not particularly femme either.  So you can't really accuse me of changing sex just for it to be socially acceptable for me to wear jeans and a t-shirt.  Which is when people switch to the opposite tactic: telling me I'm not trying hard enough!  "But what's even the point of being a woman if you're just going to be a lesbian?"  (Tip: do not say this to anyone.  Do not ask anyone what the point of their gender or sexuality is.  Don't ask a femme lesbian what the point of her being gay is, either.)

 

Yes, the kyriarchy should be disbanded.  No, me wearing lip balm isn't oppressing anyone.  If you want to demand that someone set aside their hard-won right to present as comes naturally to them for political purposes, then demand it of yourself.  No one else has to answer to you just for showing the world who they are.

 

In summary, this part of your question is the false assumption: "why do something so drastic just to fit into that other category"  I'm not gay just to fit in.  I'm not a woman just to fit in.  This is who I happen to be.  It's simply how I was born.

 

Bonus exercise: if you're a cis man, and you want to try picturing what it's like to be trans, picture yourself as a trans man, not a trans woman.  You'll probably find it much easier to fathom the inner workings of other men.  "Why on earth would you possibly prefer to have facial and body hair instead of breasts?" and "why would you rather be called sir instead of madam?" will likely seem more self-evident to you.

 

To get to the root of the issue, simply believe trans people are who they say they are.  The science backs us up on this.

[YangYing]

be very, very aware of tribalism

[gmanyo]

My dad wants to go hang out with me sometimes but won’t do so unless I’m not dressed like a girl but I feel like purposefully not dressing like a girl so he’s comfortable is giving something up. All in all I’m not suffering much for this living in Columbus, Ohio.

[Braintree]

I grew up in Columbus and found people generally accepting of gay culture, but I'm not sure how they feel about trans. Stay in the Short North/Victorian Village, I guess?

[gmanyo]

I grew up in Columbus and found people generally accepting of gay culture, but I'm not sure how they feel about trans. Stay in the Short North/Victorian Village, I guess?

Central Columbus is one of the best places to be gay or trans. I’m afraid to travel too far in any one direction though. Especially south.

[dingformung]

^yes, I agree. But his dad has the same issue of social ostracism if he is seen with a transgender or at least he might perceive it that way. So maybe give in and dress like a girl that doesn't dress specifically girly instead of wearing tons of make-up and a pink dress. For your dad who probably never grappled with this topic as deeply as you it must be even harder to resist social pressure. I totally see why you feel you are giving something up when doing that but I think that's how diplomacy works. It sucks that you can't be yourself in every situation but sometimes it might be beneficial on longterm to approach things more slowly, even if it sucks and is against your nature. But I'm sure that way you can slowly get your dad to become used to it

[YangYing]

 

be very, very aware of tribalism

jesus christ is this really your response to what zoeB wrote? what a dork

 

anything that can be dumheadily reduced to an us/them issue.. them being whatever from "idiot cis-white trump-supporting men" to "libtard sjw cucks" I think is worth being weary of that's all

 

is very easy to fall into groupthink but solutions based on that sort of thinking can end up being counterproductive I think, is a important thing to have in mind.. I just don't see it mentioned often

 

don't wanna derail this thread if pos

[Echolalia]

I learnt something new today. Cheers ZoeB.

[YangYing]

 

 

 

be very, very aware of tribalism

jesus christ is this really your response to what zoeB wrote? what a dork

anything that can be dumheadily reduced to an us/them issue.. them being whatever from "idiot cis-white trump-supporting men" to "libtard sjw cucks" I think is worth being weary of that's all

 

is very easy to fall into groupthink but solutions based on that sort of thinking can end up being counterproductive I think, is a important thing to have in mind.. I just don't see it mentioned often

 

don't wanna derail this thread if pos

you really are an idiot. you either didn't read what zoe wrote or you did and didn't comprehend a single idea expressed.

ffs man.. sure, whatever

 

edit: I see discussions like this devolving into that all the time.. if me pointing that out in this thread makes me an idiot then fine

[sheatheman]

I recommend downloading “a Normal lost phone” from the AppStore. Spoiler alert.

[drome]

 

 

 

be very, very aware of tribalism

jesus christ is this really your response to what zoeB wrote? what a dork

anything that can be dumheadily reduced to an us/them issue.. them being whatever from "idiot cis-white trump-supporting men" to "libtard sjw cucks" I think is worth being weary of that's all

 

is very easy to fall into groupthink but solutions based on that sort of thinking can end up being counterproductive I think, is a important thing to have in mind.. I just don't see it mentioned often

 

don't wanna derail this thread if pos

 

you really are an idiot. you either didn't read what zoe wrote or you did and didn't comprehend a single idea expressed.

Are you as self righteously furious about 3rd world poverty?

[chenGOD]

Ah, the good ol “others have it worse, so you shouldn’t complain” gambit.

[Alcofribas]

 

 

 

 

be very, very aware of tribalism

jesus christ is this really your response to what zoeB wrote? what a dork

anything that can be dumheadily reduced to an us/them issue.. them being whatever from "idiot cis-white trump-supporting men" to "libtard sjw cucks" I think is worth being weary of that's all

 

is very easy to fall into groupthink but solutions based on that sort of thinking can end up being counterproductive I think, is a important thing to have in mind.. I just don't see it mentioned often

 

don't wanna derail this thread if pos

you really are an idiot. you either didn't read what zoe wrote or you did and didn't comprehend a single idea expressed.

Are you as self righteously furious about 3rd world poverty?

yeah but are you as self righteous about eno/hassell fourth world vol 1: possible musics?

[rixxx]

Interestingly, there's more chance of you having autism if you are transgender

https://www.macmhb.org/sites/default/files/attachments/files/The%20Autism%20transgender%20connection.pdf

"One theory suggests that testosterone and androgen levels effect foetus leading to co-occurrence of autism and gender variance"

[drome]

Ah, the good ol “others have it worse, so you shouldn’t complain” gambit.

Gambit is a poor choice of words. I’m not playing some sort of game to win an argument.

Why aren’t you fucks as vociferous about people going without water, food and shelter?

[auxien]

 

Ah, the good ol “others have it worse, so you shouldn’t complain” gambit.

Gambit is a poor choice of words. I’m not playing some sort of game to win an argument.

Why aren’t you fucks as vociferous about people going without water, food and shelter?

 

*looks at thread title*

 

 

[Silent Member]

There's always someone worse off somewhere, that doesn't mean we should halt progression until everyone is caught up to whatever is status quo.

[drome]

There's always someone worse off somewhere, that doesn't mean we should halt progression until everyone is caught up to whatever is status quo.

Better to have a safe little crusade to prove how progressive you are while the rest of the world goes to shit.

[Zephyr_Nova]

What would make you assume people who care about trans issues wouldn't also care about poverty?

[chenGOD]

As auxien so eloquently pointed out - why would you talk about those sorts of things in a thread about transgender issues?

Transgender issues are also massive in developing nations - Thailand, Philippines, Myanmar, and India for example, all have transgender populations that face serious issues on top of the other problems their respective nations face.

 

So while the topic here might focus on North America and Europe transgender discrimination, that's a natural by-product of the representation of WATMM membership in terms of locale (and antipodeans - haven't forgotten about you).

[drome]

What would make you assume people who care about trans issues wouldn't also care about poverty?

Because I never hear a peep on this forum about it.

As auxien so eloquently pointed out - why would you talk about those sorts of things in a thread about transgender issues?

Transgender issues are also massive in developing nations - Thailand, Philippines, Myanmar, and India for example, all have transgender populations that face serious issues on top of the other problems their respective nations face.

 

So while the topic here might focus on North America and Europe transgender discrimination, that's a natural by-product of the representation of WATMM membership in terms of locale (and antipodeans - haven't forgotten about you).

Td:lr you love sound of your own spewings.

[auxien]

 

What would make you assume people who care about trans issues wouldn't also care about poverty?

Because I never hear a peep on this forum about it.

As auxien so eloquently pointed out - why would you talk about those sorts of things in a thread about transgender issues?

Transgender issues are also massive in developing nations - Thailand, Philippines, Myanmar, and India for example, all have transgender populations that face serious issues on top of the other problems their respective nations face.

 

So while the topic here might focus on North America and Europe transgender discrimination, that's a natural by-product of the representation of WATMM membership in terms of locale (and antipodeans - haven't forgotten about you).

Td:lr you love sound of your own spewings.

 

Start a thread about poverty then, genius. 

[drome]

 

 

What would make you assume people who care about trans issues wouldn't also care about poverty?

Because I never hear a peep on this forum about it.

As auxien so eloquently pointed out - why would you talk about those sorts of things in a thread about transgender issues?

Transgender issues are also massive in developing nations - Thailand, Philippines, Myanmar, and India for example, all have transgender populations that face serious issues on top of the other problems their respective nations face.

 

So while the topic here might focus on North America and Europe transgender discrimination, that's a natural by-product of the representation of WATMM membership in terms of locale (and antipodeans - haven't forgotten about you).

Td:lr you love sound of your own spewings.

Start a thread about poverty then, genius.

I wish I’d started the transgender thread to prove how progressive I am, numpty.

All pile in while your at it as you haven’t got one iota of free thought in your pompous construsts you call sentience.

[Silent Member]

Poverty is bad, and there needs to be a redistribution of wealth and ownership of resources. Fucksake, it's not something we can fix in watmm.

 

Also, save the environment.

 

Ps. End racism.