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My confusion is along these lines because I don’t actually totally hate everything about being a guy; I look in the mirror, see a dude face, and go “eh, why not”. But then I dressed up like a girl and cried tears of joy for an hour straight. Literally the happiest I have ever been in my entire life. But now that feeling is fading and I can’t tell if maybe I’m just gender fluid or something or if it’s just because it’s becoming harder to convince myself I’m a girl.

Also is it normal to feel nervous about changing genders? Sometimes someone calls me she and it feels great, other times it makes me nervous, like I’m losing something. I never feel great about being a guy, and often I hate it, especially in a relationship, but a lot of the time it feels pretty okay. I want to just say I’m trans and be a girl, but it seems this isn’t entirely motivated by a desire to be a girl; maybe to avoid the embarrassment of having said that I was trans and renegging on this.

 

Also I’m terrible at understanding that my feelings change. Whatever I feel right now MUST be how I feel ultimately, according to my brain. This means when I’m feeling okay dressed like a guy for a couple hours I think “HOLY SHIT I MUST NOT BE TRANS IM LYING TO MYSELF”

 

I gather different people have different levels of dysphoria.  While I couldn't imagine much worse than being constantly mistaken for a guy, or having any of their dimorphic biological characteristics, I gather some women don't mind it as much.  Everyone's different.  Doctors used to think that you have to be particularly strongly dysphoric in order to be transgender, but they know better now.

 

I gather that crying tears of joy after finally being able to dress like your peers is something cis people don't do...  A trans woman finally being able to present as such will find it cathartic; a cis man presenting as a woman will find it sexy at best or weird at worst, never just comfortable or right.  But I have no firsthand experience of being anyone else, of course, this is just my best model of how people work.

 

It's one of the most normal things in the world to fear change.  People tend to quite often stick with something bad instead of take a risk for it to get possibly better or possibly worse, and that's before you factor in the societal pressure to fit in.

 

You needn't feel rushed, though.  For me, every day spent after the wrong puberty and before the right one was a day my body spent moving in the wrong direction, getting worse.  So once I found out how to fix it, I didn't hesitate.  But I come from a very bloody minded family.  Some people need to move at a slower pace, being more cautious.  That's just as valid.  And very rarely, some people turn out to be cis after all, and revert back.  Whatever you do, you're not obligated to continue doing it if it turns out to be worse for you.  And conversely, you can carry on if it turns out to be better.  After a few weeks on the other hormones, should you choose to switch them, you should be able to tell if you feel much worse or much better, and either stop taking them or carry on accordingly.  But that's more something to consult a doctor about.  If you do try them out and end up stopping, no-one will think any less of you, who's someone worth keeping in your life.  And you don't even have to tell anyone aside from your doctor.  (The same goes for sexuality.  People should feel comfortable having had gay sex on the way to working out they're straight, or straight sex on the way to working out they're gay.  Not everyone has known exactly who they are for as long as they can remember.)

 

It's also natural for dysphoria to wax and wane.  If your range is from neutrality to only one particular direction, though, that might well be a sign.  As they say, the most reliable test for whether you're trans consists of a single question: "did you look up a test to see whether you're trans?"  Cis people tend not to do that.  Be careful of the typical mind fallacy that way.  Similarly, I didn't realise I was depressed until I switched hormones and suddenly wasn't depressed anymore.  I was then able to see how the fact that previously everyone had been worried that I was suicidal wasn't, in fact, normal.  That's the thing about hindsight.  I didn't realise how bad things were until they stopped being bad.  Then, as my mother pointed out to my doctor, she "got her happy daughter back."  The one who held her head high.  So there's that.

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Lmao span I like u

 

^^ ZoeB/Sadie/others, good to see people feel comfortable enough to open up with one another here. Nasty shit bubbling up all the time on the forum but glad there's some good, honest, open feels too.

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But in all seriousness. If society’s ideas of gender are oppressive, why do something so drastic just to fit into that other category? I’ve never understood it.

 

This is a common misconception, so let's take this opportunity to dissect it.

 

First off, we don't want to argue semantics, so let's clarify the different things we might mean by the ambiguous word "gender":

 

We might mean gender orientation, our innate sense of whether we're a woman or a man or somewhere in between on that spectrum.

 

Or we might mean gender presentation, the way we dress and our mannerisms, which is often similar to how other people of our own gender orientation present.  This may or may not also be different based on your sexuality.  (See, for example, butch women and femme men, but not femme women and butch men.)  And may or may not also be different anyway.  (See, for example, a straight woman with short hair who gets mistaken for gay because she's a bit gender-non-conforming.)

 

Or we might mean gender roles, the stereotypes about what kinds of things we're supposed to do because of our gender orientation.

 

(This isn't even getting into the concept of gender identity, as that one always felt a bit superfluous to me.  I don't "identify" as a woman.  I'm a woman.  The same way I don't "identify" as a lesbian, I'm a lesbian.)

 

So, if, for instance, your gender orientation is that you're a woman, you probably (perhaps even by definition) will feel more comfortable in a hormonally female body than a male one.  If you're a man, you'll conversely likely feel more comfortable in a hormonally male body.  In other words, if you're a woman, you probably don't want hirsutism.  If you're a man, you probably don't want gynecomastia.  That's true for cis people, and it's also true for trans people.  So fixing any endocrinological issues to ensure you're comfortable in your own body is always a good idea.

 

So, if you're a cis man, and you can imagine that you wouldn't like having gynecomastia, and you can feel empathy for a fellow cis man who has it, then I'd urge you to extend that empathy to a trans man who essentially has an even worse hormonal imbalance.

 

So, next up we can look at gender presentation.  Say, for argument's sake, that you wear trousers instead of skirts, you don't wear make-up, and you walk with the gait of someone who assumes other people will move out of his way as needed, probably without consciously realising it.  Say that you have three or four friends who all do these things.  Maybe one has long hair, but even that's well within acceptable parameters of what men are allowed to do, according to other, less enlightened men, who feel obliged to provoke anyone who falls out of line.  Maybe one of your friends is gay and recognisably so with his mannerisms, but even then, in a way that would never get him mistaken for a woman.  All in all, it's a nice group of friends.  You go drinking together.

 

Then one of your friends (it could be any of them) confides in you that he's actually a trans man.  This surprises you, as he's a perfectly normal man, starting to bald, and he's always been able to grow a better beard than you in fact.  All of a sudden you're outraged!  Why did he change his hormonal sex?  He explains it was to feel comfortable in his own body.  Fine, but why does he dress like a man?  Because he is a man.  But why does he have a beard?  Why do you have one?

 

How come you're allowed to do all these things without feeling guilty that you're "upholding the gender binary", but he's not?  If you really think one of you two should feel obliged to shave his beard off on the general principle that beards are shamelessly upholding the gender binary, then shave off your own.  He likes his, he's keeping it thank you very much.

 

I believe the technical term for this is a double standard.  Cis people can present how they want without question.  But if a trans person... well, exists... then it's scrutinised.  I'm a trans woman, so some people online assume I'm ultra-femme and the reason I fixed my body was in order to always wear dresses.  Anyone who's met me, on the other hand, knows I usually just wear a t-shirt and jeans, all clothes that are a good size for my feminine body but pretty neutral.  Not especially butch, but not particularly femme either.  So you can't really accuse me of changing sex just for it to be socially acceptable for me to wear jeans and a t-shirt.  Which is when people switch to the opposite tactic: telling me I'm not trying hard enough!  "But what's even the point of being a woman if you're just going to be a lesbian?"  (Tip: do not say this to anyone.  Do not ask anyone what the point of their gender or sexuality is.  Don't ask a femme lesbian what the point of her being gay is, either.)

 

Yes, the kyriarchy should be disbanded.  No, me wearing lip balm isn't oppressing anyone.  If you want to demand that someone set aside their hard-won right to present as comes naturally to them for political purposes, then demand it of yourself.  No one else has to answer to you just for showing the world who they are.

 

In summary, this part of your question is the false assumption: "why do something so drastic just to fit into that other category"  I'm not gay just to fit in.  I'm not a woman just to fit in.  This is who I happen to be.  It's simply how I was born.

 

Bonus exercise: if you're a cis man, and you want to try picturing what it's like to be trans, picture yourself as a trans man, not a trans woman.  You'll probably find it much easier to fathom the inner workings of other men.  "Why on earth would you possibly prefer to have facial and body hair instead of breasts?" and "why would you rather be called sir instead of madam?" will likely seem more self-evident to you.

 

To get to the root of the issue, simply believe trans people are who they say they are.  The science backs us up on this.

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My dad wants to go hang out with me sometimes but won’t do so unless I’m not dressed like a girl but I feel like purposefully not dressing like a girl so he’s comfortable is giving something up. All in all I’m not suffering much for this living in Columbus, Ohio.

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I grew up in Columbus and found people generally accepting of gay culture, but I'm not sure how they feel about trans. Stay in the Short North/Victorian Village, I guess?

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I grew up in Columbus and found people generally accepting of gay culture, but I'm not sure how they feel about trans. Stay in the Short North/Victorian Village, I guess?

Central Columbus is one of the best places to be gay or trans. I’m afraid to travel too far in any one direction though. Especially south.

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^yes, I agree. But his dad has the same issue of social ostracism if he is seen with a transgender or at least he might perceive it that way. So maybe give in and dress like a girl that doesn't dress specifically girly instead of wearing tons of make-up and a pink dress. For your dad who probably never grappled with this topic as deeply as you it must be even harder to resist social pressure. I totally see why you feel you are giving something up when doing that but I think that's how diplomacy works. It sucks that you can't be yourself in every situation but sometimes it might be beneficial on longterm to approach things more slowly, even if it sucks and is against your nature. But I'm sure that way you can slowly get your dad to become used to it

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be very, very aware of tribalism

jesus christ is this really your response to what zoeB wrote? what a dork :facepalm:

 

anything that can be dumheadily reduced to an us/them issue.. them being whatever from "idiot cis-white trump-supporting men" to "libtard sjw cucks" I think is worth being weary of that's all

 

is very easy to fall into groupthink but solutions based on that sort of thinking can end up being counterproductive I think, is a important thing to have in mind.. I just don't see it mentioned often

 

don't wanna derail this thread if pos

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be very, very aware of tribalism

jesus christ is this really your response to what zoeB wrote? what a dork :facepalm:

anything that can be dumheadily reduced to an us/them issue.. them being whatever from "idiot cis-white trump-supporting men" to "libtard sjw cucks" I think is worth being weary of that's all

 

is very easy to fall into groupthink but solutions based on that sort of thinking can end up being counterproductive I think, is a important thing to have in mind.. I just don't see it mentioned often

 

don't wanna derail this thread if pos

you really are an idiot. you either didn't read what zoe wrote or you did and didn't comprehend a single idea expressed.

ffs man.. sure, whatever

 

edit: I see discussions like this devolving into that all the time.. if me pointing that out in this thread makes me an idiot then fine

Edited by MIXL2
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be very, very aware of tribalism

jesus christ is this really your response to what zoeB wrote? what a dork :facepalm:

anything that can be dumheadily reduced to an us/them issue.. them being whatever from "idiot cis-white trump-supporting men" to "libtard sjw cucks" I think is worth being weary of that's all

 

is very easy to fall into groupthink but solutions based on that sort of thinking can end up being counterproductive I think, is a important thing to have in mind.. I just don't see it mentioned often

 

don't wanna derail this thread if pos

 

you really are an idiot. you either didn't read what zoe wrote or you did and didn't comprehend a single idea expressed.

Are you as self righteously furious about 3rd world poverty?

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Ah, the good ol “others have it worse, so you shouldn’t complain” gambit.

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be very, very aware of tribalism

jesus christ is this really your response to what zoeB wrote? what a dork :facepalm:

anything that can be dumheadily reduced to an us/them issue.. them being whatever from "idiot cis-white trump-supporting men" to "libtard sjw cucks" I think is worth being weary of that's all

 

is very easy to fall into groupthink but solutions based on that sort of thinking can end up being counterproductive I think, is a important thing to have in mind.. I just don't see it mentioned often

 

don't wanna derail this thread if pos

you really are an idiot. you either didn't read what zoe wrote or you did and didn't comprehend a single idea expressed.

Are you as self righteously furious about 3rd world poverty?

yeah but are you as self righteous about eno/hassell fourth world vol 1: possible musics?

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Interestingly, there's more chance of you having autism if you are transgender

https://www.macmhb.org/sites/default/files/attachments/files/The%20Autism%20transgender%20connection.pdf

"One theory suggests that testosterone and androgen levels effect foetus leading to co-occurrence of autism and gender variance"

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Ah, the good ol “others have it worse, so you shouldn’t complain” gambit.

Gambit is a poor choice of words. I’m not playing some sort of game to win an argument.

Why aren’t you fucks as vociferous about people going without water, food and shelter?

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Ah, the good ol “others have it worse, so you shouldn’t complain” gambit.

Gambit is a poor choice of words. I’m not playing some sort of game to win an argument.

Why aren’t you fucks as vociferous about people going without water, food and shelter?

 

*looks at thread title*

 

:cerious: 

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There's always someone worse off somewhere, that doesn't mean we should halt progression until everyone is caught up to whatever is status quo.

Edited by Gocab
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There's always someone worse off somewhere, that doesn't mean we should halt progression until everyone is caught up to whatever is status quo.

Better to have a safe little crusade to prove how progressive you are while the rest of the world goes to shit.

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As auxien so eloquently pointed out - why would you talk about those sorts of things in a thread about transgender issues?

Transgender issues are also massive in developing nations - Thailand, Philippines, Myanmar, and India for example, all have transgender populations that face serious issues on top of the other problems their respective nations face.

 

So while the topic here might focus on North America and Europe transgender discrimination, that's a natural by-product of the representation of WATMM membership in terms of locale (and antipodeans - haven't forgotten about you).

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What would make you assume people who care about trans issues wouldn't also care about poverty?

Because I never hear a peep on this forum about it.

As auxien so eloquently pointed out - why would you talk about those sorts of things in a thread about transgender issues?

Transgender issues are also massive in developing nations - Thailand, Philippines, Myanmar, and India for example, all have transgender populations that face serious issues on top of the other problems their respective nations face.

 

So while the topic here might focus on North America and Europe transgender discrimination, that's a natural by-product of the representation of WATMM membership in terms of locale (and antipodeans - haven't forgotten about you).

Td:lr you love sound of your own spewings.

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