Alzado Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 The only difference between selling these tapes and selling a set of drum sticks from your favorite band that you caught at a concert is that you guys are projecting your own feelings about these tapes onto the physical items themselves. So you come away with some warped sense of ethics about them. When boc sent these tapes out (to a label nonetheless!), they abandoned their ownership of them. No different than a drummer hurling his sticks into the crowd at a concert. Your heart may tell you that these things shouldn't be treated that way, but your heart is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 you guys are projecting your own feelings about these tapes onto the physical items themselves. This, this so much. It's like rixxx it's trying to sell BoC's "magic" and identity itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakapo Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 You abandon ownership of the physical tape. You don't abandon ownership of the music contained within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 You abandon ownership of the physical tape. You don't abandon ownership of the music contained within. Fucking spot on, mate. The immaturity and arrogance of some of the posters in this thread makes me weep for this generation, and pity the stupid fucks who should know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 One might wonder how many complainer-boc-bronies have the mp3's of those tapes on their puters (with lots of love and respect). My guess: all of them. I really hope the Paradinas make lots and lots of money selling these tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieBees Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 boc should sue the paradinas family estate for hurting their feels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zupiclone Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 You abandon ownership of the physical tape. You don't abandon ownership of the music contained within. Fucking spot on, mate. The immaturity and arrogance of some of the posters in this thread makes me weep for this generation, and pity the stupid fucks who should know better. exactly, i've been reading the laymans approach to copyright on all these pages. from accusations of jealousy to protective fans all missing the point to suit their own agenda. copyright drumsticks. wow, total fucking wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I'm rather confused: From BoCPages: The tapes were private comps given out to closefriends a few years ago, long before the band imagined there would be this kind of interest,and long before the likes of Soulseek etc existed. From eBay: Sent to me along with 'A Few Old Tunes' (see other my auctions) as demo tapes when I worked at a record label in the nineties. so, are the old tunes cassettes demos for record labels or compilations for close friends? i think if we cleared up this confusion the situation would be clearer. if they were sent as demos, it's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Are these tapes being illegally reproduced? No. So what's the legal problem here? edit.: @ hoodie: i'm guessing, it's not an either/or thing. They prolly landed as demo's at Mike P's doorstep and as gifts at the early boc-friends doorsteps.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravedamage Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 You abandon ownership of the physical tape. You don't abandon ownership of the music contained within. Fucking spot on, mate. The immaturity and arrogance of some of the posters in this thread makes me weep for this generation, and pity the stupid fucks who should know better. This is no different to someone selling a Telephasic Workshop 10", which is also a 'promotional' item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerwolf Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Wow Joyrex, expected better decorum from yourself in regards to talking about artist's personal lives. As stated before, these are just collecting dust on a shelf we aren't dying for money but why not sell them? There's people out there that want them and as I mentioned before the tracks are in the public domain. I remember seeing several leaks on this forum from your beloved artists and you were all happy to download them even though they weren't ready for release or they were unwanted in the public domain at that time. Mike wouldn't leak stuff or be ungentlemanly towards his friends, he has these tracks digitally so it's not really necessary for him to have tapes (which are obsolete!). We aren't materialistic about bullshit like this because the music is whats important. Sorry - I personally think it's just a low/shitty thing to do - and NOT YOUR MUSIC to decide if you want to sell, since these are not commercially released tracks (well, not all of them). BoC owns the copyright to these tracks, and since they are not commercially released, you nor anyone else has the right to distribute, sell, or perform them publicly. You being the co-owner of a record label should know the law. And you're mis-informed regarding leaks on this forum - despite the (mis)named "Joyrex Tape", I did NOT leak them - at one point, Richard was even considering allowing me to release a few of the tracks, and had no problems with me putting up 30 second snippets for the fans to hear. And honestly, you're going to pull the "the music is what's important" bullshit, when you are SELLING the fucking things for a quick cash grab to capitalize on BoC's new album release? Give me a break. If it was just about "the music", then pull the fucking auctions, and since you have them digitally, DESTROY the tapes since you have no right to sell them (and hey, they're obsolete - let's smash old Ben Franklin wax cylinders too, since hey, they're obsolete) - I'm sure BoC didn't give out the Old Tunes with the expectation they'd be sold at a handsome profit. I'm sorry you need money, but capitalizing on the trust, generosity, and friendship of Mike's fellow contemporaries and friends (honestly I have no idea how well you know them) is inexcusable. I'm with you mate. All of this fucking sucks. And if you disagree? Then fuck you!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blir Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If you own something, you can do whatever you like with that thing. Regardless of how sensitive other people get over their feelings towards said thing. I wish that instead of selling the tapes, Rixx posted pictures of herself taking it to a clay pigeon shooting range and destroying it instead. Just to see how upset people got about their precious non-belonging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 The only difference between selling these tapes and selling a set of drum sticks from your favorite band that you caught at a concert is that you guys are projecting your own feelings about these tapes onto the physical items themselves. So you come away with some warped sense of ethics about them. When boc sent these tapes out (to a label nonetheless!), they abandoned their ownership of them. No different than a drummer hurling his sticks into the crowd at a concert. Your heart may tell you that these things shouldn't be treated that way, but your heart is irrelevant. it is not the same thing alzado. those drum sticks were randomly thrown out with no regard to who received them. the tapes were mailed to specific people with an intention behind the private act of giving away those tapes (versus the public act of throwing drum sticks into a crowd). if boc had given out the tapes randomly, like the promo record from record store day, then i would see no problem in selling it. but these tapes were given to friends for some specific purpose and to have friends selling them is in poor taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If you own something, you can do whatever you like with that thing. Regardless of how sensitive other people get over their feelings towards said thing. I wish that instead of selling the tapes, Rixx posted pictures of herself taking it to a clay pigeon shooting range and destroying it instead. Just to see how upset people got about their precious non-belonging. i would rather see the owners (who are supposedly creative people) do something unique and artistic with the cassettes than simply selling them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 BoC watmm subforum and Twoism = are becoming one in the same lol seriously i don't think its a big deal. If BoC feels strongly about not having this passed around, they will probably intervene. Besides, to my knowledge, BoC doesn't even own these anymore as the rights are sold to Warp no? So really it's Warp's decision whether or not to intervene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 http://forum.watmm.com/topic/67517-the-downloads-are-in-here/ Who's to say Aphex decides to release a live performance boxset in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I can see the BOC-brothers at BOC-headquarters being furious about these people selling these tapes out of their own personal considerations. "How could they. This is not in our interests....aaaargh! We wish these people to be executed". In reality, they might not even care, or better, send them some extra baby clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 This has to be the most stupid first world problem in History Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skept Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Those tapes look to have been sent to Mu as a demo at some point... the annotations have things like "a side"/"b side" marked out so whoever was listening and making these notes was planning a release(s) - It doesn't appear very gift like, and TBH even if it was a gift i still dont see the big deal. For future reference - Mike P and Rixxx should have done this anonymously to avoid this shit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 This has to be the most stupid first world problem in History The problem is that this should have never been a problem, some guy is selling a colector's item? who gives a shit, this happens all the time, nobody loses, the artists is not losing any money, the buyer is happy because he bought a one of a kind item of his favorite band and the seller makes some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I guess some people have become weird by a week without an episode of Game Of Thrones. King Joffrey might be the missing third Sandison brother, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alzado Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 You abandon ownership of the physical tape. You don't abandon ownership of the music contained within. sure you retain the copyright to the music, but you abandoned that particular recording of the copyrighted work. if these demos were stolen from them or copied and released by a studio engineer, that would be different. But there's nothing illegal about somebody selling a band's demo tape so long as they rightfully acquired it. Ripping the tapes and releasing the high quality mp3s that you all are begging for would, on the other hand, be a copyright violation. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hQgSWk5G8HC4QFRso4f_BgYIpt7g?docId=CNG.bc4fddf42af222304e0d2cd7ee9a52ef.361 Beatles demo tape, rejected by Decca, resurfaces (AFP) – Nov 26, 2012 LONDON — The Beatles demo tape that record label Decca overlooked -- a decision branded the biggest mistake in music history -- has resurfaced and is up for auction, according to newspapers. Recorded on New Year's Day 1961, Decca artists and repertoire man Dick Rowe passed over the Liverpool group and signed The Tremeloes instead. The Beatles went on to sign for EMI and became world stars. Bootleg copies exist but few have heard the original "pristine" master tape, containing 10 cover versions. It is being auctioned in London on Tuesday by the Fame Bureau, with an asking price of £30,000 ($48,000, 37,000 euros). It does not, however, come with the rights to the tracks. "Apple, the company set up by The Beatles, holds the copyright to their voices and if anyone tried to release the material without their permission they would certainly be sued," said Fame Bureau managing director Ted Owen, according to The Times. "This has never officially been released. It is unique and the sound quality is crystal clear. We have spoken to various experts and this is the best quality recording of this session there is." Bassist Paul McCartney, lead guitarist George Harrison, rhythm guitarist John Lennon and drummer Pete Best -- later sacked and replaced by Ringo Starr -- appear on the demo tape, recorded at the Decca studios in West Hampstead, north London. It is marked as the "Silver Beatles" -- the group's former name -- and comes with a hand-written track list and a black-and-white image of the band, wearing leather jackets and posing with their instruments. The tracks include "Money (That's What I Want)", "Take Good Care Of My Baby" and "Till There Was You". The Beatles' manager Brian Epstein held onto the tape and later gave it to an executive associated with EMI. That person auctioned it privately in 2002 but it has now resurfaced. Though Rowe rejected The Beatles, he went on to sign The Rolling Stones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 This has to be the most stupid first world problem in History The problem is that this should have never been a problem, some guy is selling a colector's item? who gives a shit, this happens all the time, nobody loses, the artists is not losing any money, the buyer is happy because he bought a one of a kind item of his favorite band and the seller makes some money. B.. but... BoC's wishes man! And copyright and stuff! I mean, it's not illegal, but... you're just an arrogant cunt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 1. Those who are proclaiming that this is against the wishes of the band, you have no idea. You don't speak with the band. At best, you speak to a proxy of the band and thusly their words are not authoritative. At worst, you just think you know what the band want. 2. What the band wishes for these tapes is completely fucking irrelevant, for reasons that have already been mentioned. The tapes / records / beanie hats / whatever have been given to someone else, be it as a demo tape, or even if it was a gift from a friend to a friend. Either way, that item is now for the current owner to decide what they do with it. It is Mike P and Lara's choice to do with them as they please. And I find it abhorrent that there are people dissecting their justification for selling. For the record, they didn't even need to justify it. They didn't even need to sell 'anonymously' as someone has suggested - why should they have to hide behind anonymity to sell something that they own?! Fucking cult-like behaviour from all who oppose this sale is ludicrous. Good point made by Brisk regarding those who are complaining about this sale would very likely also complain about the recent xbone vidya game stuff. Welcome to capitalism. You've been part of it for a while, but maybe you'll pick up the rules eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 ^ epitome of arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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