Boc Old Tunes 1 + 2 / Boc Maxima / orig Twosim etc

[Adieu]

Why has no one bidded on the BOC Gareth Pugh Women's black leather ankle boots?

 

The BOC leather jacket flew off the shelves.

[goDel]

 

But it was a copy of the real deal, right? That's the reason it was taken down, I think.

No, they were authentic weren't they? The guy who was originally given them posted on discogs about it. He confirmed they were real.

 

Not sure where you're getting that... The auction was shuttered out of respect for the band's wishes.

Mark from HS' comments suggested to me that the 'forthcoming' release with Warp was the main reason the auction was closed.

If my reading/ logic abilities are still correct the prince murat auction was about a copy of the real deal:

 

there's no difference between this kind of profiteering

and someone trying to sell a bootleg CDR of Beck's new album months prior to release.)

A bootleg cdr is a copy, right?

 

And this is also partially confirmed by datathiefs 2011 posting about the existence of those tapes.

 

To wind up the authenticity issues, yes, myself and another producer received old tunes one and 2 as christmas presents from Mike and Marcus, and we made copies of each one, so we had a cassette of both each. The images that were seen on the now slightly legendary $900 Ebay auction were of my 1 original and a copy, with my handwriting in blue paint pen. The stories vary from the wildy inaccurate to the half true, how the tapes wound up on EBAY. Here`s what happened. While living in the USA, I used to visit my then girlfriend,a known ex moderator of the WATMM forum, Joanna Balsamo, AKA octavekitten in south florida, and after breaking up with her, she agreed to send back my belongings I had left at her house including the 2 OLD TUNES cassettes. I never recieved the package. I was told it was lost in the mail with no tracking or return address. Having no way of the tapes ever being returned to sender with no tracking info etc, they strangely then found their way into the hands of her next live -in boyfriend, who, after being told she was leaving town without him, tried to auction them off on Ebay to get rid of `parts of a past life` or some other post break up catharsis. Ms. Balsamo never re-appeared on WATMM forum to attempt to clear her name, and proceeded to reinvent herself a scenester in an unrelated music genre in another city. this procedure of bailing and reinvention is a repeating pattern with Ms. B as drama is a forte of hers according to numerous victims. I was told the tapes that had been seen on ebay were copies of the originals and were not my property, but the large photographs that the auctioneer had posted in loving detail showing handwriting on the copied cassette, in blue paint pen proved this to be untrue. The intervening party that got them off ebay was myself, and possibly BOC, I intervened simply out of respect for BOC having an item given in trust to someone ending up being ausctioned for an extortionate amount of money. The guy in question to my knowledge, still has them.. I called him at work once, he said hed send them back, but never did. Hopefully that will finally clear up the story. - datathief, Jul 12, 2011

So at least one of the tapes from the 2005 auction was a copy. And possibly, both were copies because that'd be the smart thing to do if you're in it for the money ( even though the pics did show datathiefs handwriting).

[SR4]

lol fucking OctaveKitten.

 

 

that lady was crazy.

[mcbpete]

Ah I knew there was an Octavekitten element to this whole old tunes saga (though I remembered it as being Boc Maxima). Looks like her livejournal is still there but a huge majority of it (like 10 years worth) is marked as private

[Guest Ron Manager]

 

 

But it was a copy of the real deal, right? That's the reason it was taken down, I think.

No, they were authentic weren't they? The guy who was originally given them posted on discogs about it. He confirmed they were real.

 

Not sure where you're getting that... The auction was shuttered out of respect for the band's wishes.

Mark from HS' comments suggested to me that the 'forthcoming' release with Warp was the main reason the auction was closed.

If my reading/ logic abilities are still correct the prince murat auction was about a copy of the real deal:

 

there's no difference between this kind of profiteering

and someone trying to sell a bootleg CDR of Beck's new album months prior to release.)

A bootleg cdr is a copy, right?

 

And this is also partially confirmed by datathiefs 2011 posting about the existence of those tapes.

 

To wind up the authenticity issues, yes, myself and another producer received old tunes one and 2 as christmas presents from Mike and Marcus, and we made copies of each one, so we had a cassette of both each. The images that were seen on the now slightly legendary $900 Ebay auction were of my 1 original and a copy, with my handwriting in blue paint pen. The stories vary from the wildy inaccurate to the half true, how the tapes wound up on EBAY. Here`s what happened. While living in the USA, I used to visit my then girlfriend,a known ex moderator of the WATMM forum, Joanna Balsamo, AKA octavekitten in south florida, and after breaking up with her, she agreed to send back my belongings I had left at her house including the 2 OLD TUNES cassettes. I never recieved the package. I was told it was lost in the mail with no tracking or return address. Having no way of the tapes ever being returned to sender with no tracking info etc, they strangely then found their way into the hands of her next live -in boyfriend, who, after being told she was leaving town without him, tried to auction them off on Ebay to get rid of `parts of a past life` or some other post break up catharsis. Ms. Balsamo never re-appeared on WATMM forum to attempt to clear her name, and proceeded to reinvent herself a scenester in an unrelated music genre in another city. this procedure of bailing and reinvention is a repeating pattern with Ms. B as drama is a forte of hers according to numerous victims. I was told the tapes that had been seen on ebay were copies of the originals and were not my property, but the large photographs that the auctioneer had posted in loving detail showing handwriting on the copied cassette, in blue paint pen proved this to be untrue. The intervening party that got them off ebay was myself, and possibly BOC, I intervened simply out of respect for BOC having an item given in trust to someone ending up being ausctioned for an extortionate amount of money. The guy in question to my knowledge, still has them.. I called him at work once, he said hed send them back, but never did. Hopefully that will finally clear up the story. - datathief, Jul 12, 2011

So at least one of the tapes from the 2005 auction was a copy. And possibly, both were copies because that'd be the smart thing to do if you're in it for the money ( even though the pics did show datathiefs handwriting).

 

 

Well I'm personally willing to trust datathief (and Prince Murat) that the original one was going to be sold, and I personally believe that this was the reason for the closure, rather than the fact that a copy was also going to be included... but, internets, opinions

 

What I'm trying to get at, as I mentioned way back in this thread, and as I think SR4 noted above somewhere, is that (on the proviso that Prince Murat had a legitimate tape) it's hard to see why the present sale hasn't been closed yet. And if the difference is that these auctions have been created with permission, then I'm surprised that none of the involved parties have come out and said so to quell the fuss.

[th555]

If the files are readily available on the ´net, what would be the point of closing this auction?

[mcglockers]

Maybe they don't care that a bunch of dorks on the internet have got their knickers in a twist about it. It's a couple of tapes, everyone already has the content...

[goDel]

....uuh ok.

 

I hope it is clear what i'm trying to get at: namely the official spokesperson of the hexagon specifically mentioning the CDR bootleg analogy. Which basically is a direct reference to their motivations. So whether or not the tapes were real or copies isn't relevant at this point in time. At that point in time their perception was "similar to CDR bootlegs".

[goDel]

If the files are readily available on the ´net, what would be the point of closing this auction?

 

Well, it's just sad really. You could trust on the BOC brothers being able to get hold of Mike P if they really do see a problem. And if that had happened, it is pretty obvious the auction would have been cancelled.

 

Fact at this point in time: it hasn't been cancelled. So with a tiny bit of logical deduction, the brothers are OK with it.

 

Deal with it people! Please stop white knighting BOC. It's pretty ridiculous and hypocritical at the same time. If you really had the utmost respect for them, you'd just allow them to handle their own business the way they themselves think is right.

[th555]

Which wasn't entirely true, because there was no actual release, just a very limited privately distributed tape. Which seems like a good reason to close the auction.

[goDel]

Which wasn't entirely true, because there was no actual release, just a very limited privately distributed tape. Which seems like a good reason to close the auction.

?

 

There were plans to release it. From their point of view....again FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW - AT THAT SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME - it was true. Or are you saying the BOC-official intentionally wrote some bullshit?

[mcbpete]

I doubt legally the tapes would've gotten a public release in their current form - there's quite a lot of commercial samples in there ...

[th555]

 

Which wasn't entirely true, because there was no actual release, just a very limited privately distributed tape. Which seems like a good reason to close the auction.

?

 

There were plans to release it. From their point of view....again FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW - AT THAT SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME - it was true. Or are you saying the BOC-official intentionally wrote some bullshit?

 

Maybe yes, maybe no. I think the main point they were trying to get across was "that music is ours, don't sell it on the internet".

 

Btw, the fact that no bocset was ever released does speak in favour of our little prince. He could've easily said "well, there's never gonna be no release", and he'd've been right.

[goDel]

Your logic is just.....

 

 

At that point in time our lovely prince had no leg to stand on. Even if he would have been right, looking back from our point of view (which isn't relevant).

 

And what you think they were trying to get across, or what anyone thinks they were getting across, is irrelevant. It's your opinion. The most factual one could get is a quote:

"there's no difference between this kind of profiteering and someone trying to sell a bootleg CDR of Beck's new album months prior to release."

 

Are you people in love with your own opinions, or something? Narcissism is the new internet disease, it seems.

 

Also note the possible implications of "months prior to release". Take a guess at how close they were (or thought they were...) to officially releasing the tapes (at that point in time).

[th555]

At that point in time our lovely prince had no leg to stand on. Even if he would have been right, looking back from our point of view (which isn't relevant).

BoC was just as secretive and scarce with releases back then as they are now, weren't they? But yes, you're right, back then it wouldn't have been a strong argument :P Still speaks for him in retrospect, though.

 

And what you think they were trying to get across, or what anyone thinks they were getting across, is irrelevant. It's your opinion. The most factual one could get is a quote:

"there's no difference between this kind of profiteering and someone trying to sell a bootleg CDR of Beck's new album months prior to release."

I don't think you should take that quote too literally. Because it's not the same.

 

Are you people in love with your own opinions, or something? Narcissism is the new internet disease, it seems.

Why, because we don't agree with you? (I have no idea which side I'm on btw, I just read the last page and wanted to say a few things)

 

Also note the possible implications of "months prior to release". Take a guess at how close they were (or thought they were...) to officially releasing the tapes (at that point in time).

I have no idea, I can't go back in time and look at what they were doing and thinking, can I? Fact is they never got released. But not AT THAT SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME, of course.

 

I don't know much about this whole story, so help me out here. Did they decide not to release it because the unfinished tapes were leaked? Any "official" comments on this?

[goDel]

Look, there was a statement at the time which is considered official. Read it and read it good. And good reading is something different to "Maybe yes, maybe no. I think the main point they were trying to get across was "that music is ours, don't sell it on the internet"."

 

That statement is the only fact in this entire discussion. As soon as someone starts to " yeah, but what they were trying to say is..." or some nonsense like that, he's basically distorting the facts with his opinions. Kinda like in US politics where facts are sold as lies and opinions as truths.

 

That statement is not some half-truth, but a fact (saying something about their opinion). And anyone's opinion about it is just that; their opinion about what the opinion of boc might be.

 

So again, for your pleasure, here's a fact:

 

OK The reason it was jumped on was this: Warp and BOC have been in talks for a long while about
putting out a box set of old tracks from these tapes and others, with new packaging and art, to
be released sometime after the forthcoming record. The tapes were private comps given out to close
friends a few years ago, long before the band imagined there would be this kind of interest,
and long before the likes of Soulseek etc existed.
The tracks are out there now, nothing can be done about that, they've been circulating for a while
and fans have them, so the decision was taken to at least consider tidying them up and repackaging
them with decent exclusive artwork & more rarities. BOC never wanted these tracks presented this
way, mislabelled and as poor-quality MP3 files.
There's no 'hype', these comps were never listed on any old discogs as they were never intended
for mass release in the first place.
Now the intention is still to get round to scheduling a release of these tunes and other rare
comps, but unscrupulous people like 'prince murat' are obviously stealing the thunder of the
proposed releases, whilst trying to make a tidy profit in the process (a starting price of $799
speaks volumes about 'prince murat's true intentions. who is trying to profit from hype here?
if any money is going to be involved, surely the artist who wrote those tracks should be receiving
the royalties, and not this person? there's no difference between this kind of profiteering
and someone trying to sell a bootleg CDR of Beck's new album months prior to release.)
Anyway, now you know, we hope the intervention hasn't caused too much negative feeling,
after all the concern that Warp and BOC have is that basically it's going to spoil the
impact of a nice release that hopefully will be enjoyed by the fans.

 

Obviously, we all can put our own priorities in this text. I put mine at a specific quote which, IMO, speaks volumes about their ideas. I mean, "there's no difference...." says a lot about their perceptions. In the most unambiguous way possible.

[goDel]

Also note the if's and questions beforehand. Those are uncertainties. The "there's no difference..." is a certainty. Now take a wild guess why I put my focus at that specific sentence.

[th555]

Obviously, prince murat selling old tunes was similar to a pre-release cdr bootleg in the way that he is profiting from the sale and taking away the profit from the actual release. I don't see why my opinion on that matter is something to get hung up on.

 

Thanks for digging that up though. But do I get this right? The files were already out there, and they were planning an old tunes release, but then prince murat tried to sell a tape, and then because of that they didn't want to put out an old tunes release? Even though it wouldn't've made a difference at all?

[goDel]

Thanks for digging that up though. But do I get this right? The files were already out there, and they were planning an old tunes release, but then prince murat tried to sell a tape, and then because of that they didn't want to put out an old tunes release? Even though it wouldn't've made a difference at all?

 

No. Why the bocset hasn't been released is another story. Not going to speculate on that one. My only speculation which could be relevant is that the reason would be completely independent of some cancelled ebay auction.

[th555]

That's good :P what are the common speculations here on wattem then?

edit: guess I'll just read that boc wiki :P

[apriorion]

 

If the files are readily available on the ´net, what would be the point of closing this auction?

 

 

Fact at this point in time: it hasn't been cancelled. So with a tiny bit of logical deduction, the brothers are OK with it.

 

 

 

That's not logical deduction. That's inductive reasoning.

[goDel]

Doesn't take away any of the brilliance of the logic.

 

Becomes deduction if you add the assumptions you left out of your quote, btw. Whatever floats your boat though.

[manmower]

Obviously, prince murat selling old tunes was similar to a pre-release cdr bootleg in the way that he is profiting from the sale and taking away the profit from the actual release. I don't see why my opinion on that matter is something to get hung up on.

We don't know for a fact that he would be taking away profit from any box set, real or imagined. It's just selling one legit copy of a collector's item that's a different item entirely than the planned release, nothing to do with piracy.

 

Two things seem sketchy about the 2005 auction to me:

 

- One of the tapes was a copy

- If Discogs' datathief is indeed the real original owner, the tapes weren't Prince Murat's to sell

 

Other than that I see nothing wrong with it and don't understand HexSun's stance at the time.

[SR4]

anyone willing to help me out? i need to go to the next town over to find more people. We need help pulling the brooms out of peoples' asses. Stock up on sex lube, mayo if out of other options. 17 pages. This needs to be done.

 

Are you people in love with your own opinions, or something? Narcissism is the new internet disease, it seems.

 

 

 

is there an irono-smiley here?

[goDel]

Now there is.

 

You can use broomsticks, but from my experience wooden table legs are fine as well. With or without lube. Depends on your and their preferences, I guess.