So which watmmer's still dislike TCH?

[Nebraska]

you know what's funny: without the stories, the music is actually even more boring. when you think there are hidden messages or a special 1 second sound created with an expensive and very secret instrument it might make you pick up the album again and again.

 

remember when the 12 second soundclip vinyl surfaced. lots of people thought it was a joke. a fake by maybe warp or the shop that sold it. this is because there was no story. the (little) music itself didn't really have enough substance to assure people that it was indeed boc. but what did they do after people realized it was them? they fed them another myth: 5 of these wonderful records exist and they hold some secret code that will help you unlock the magic secret website. and suddenly, people get excited about a random sequence of numbers and the record sells for $6000.

[AJW]

It seems you're very privvy to all the hype and maybe take it too seriously? But then again if you simply don't like the music that's fair play.

 

Just saying it's possible to like BoC or any other myth enshrouded band for that matter, without getting caught up in the surrounding hype. Though aware of the stories regarding secret messages and whatnot, it's never anything I've indulged in, and I still very much enjoy BoCs output.

[Nebraska]

actually, i don't take it seriously. i just find it sloppy like the music. real mysteries are interesting because they have a kind of absurdity that gives them a life of their own. this is just two guys not telling you anything- just enough to keep you guessing though. a

 

also, when i discovered this band, i completely ignored the whole myth about them (for whatever reason, it just didn't interest me) and just listened to the music. my initial thoughts were "yes. good music. but not great. what am i missing?"

 

when i started to put the whole myth (red-moon gatherings, hexagon sun mystery members, talking about cults etc.) i found it kind of interesting - or rather, i actually wanted to listen to it more to try and put it in context with the story. somewhere around trans-whatever highway, i lost interest. it seemed as though, after ditching the backstory, the music itself was... forgettable. so we're back to the story- and since the marketing campaign website, video and 12 second vinyl weren't enough, they're also harping a few limited interviews carefully revealing just enough details to keep you hooked.

[joshuatxuk]

To be fair, I can't imagine being in such a lauded music group and maintaining at least some of the same ethos and style without completely imploding in self-awareness. They've avoided that, and avoided the "safe" sound of TCH, and I find that impressive. It doesn't matter if it will never match MHTRTC or Geogaddi.

[Fredd-E]

i really dislike it. from the moment i heard it the first time i thought "this is it? this is what we've been waiting for for all these years?" it almost seemed like a joke. to wait 8 years just to hear some ambient project that wasn't even that interesting.

 

You should really give this album at least 10 listens. And preferably on a decent sound system or some really good headphones. The immense layering and sound design deserves nothing less.

 

 

i really dislike this kind of advice. if i cannot afford "a decent sound system or some really good headphones" does that mean then i will be incapable of enjoying the album? if these things are required to fully appreciate the album, then why isn't it sold with them included and instructions on how to use them?

 

if it requires technology to sell it's sound, then maybe it's not that great of an album.

 

Allow me to elaborate a bit on my statement and give you some context first. A friend of mine, who definitely has liked BoC a lot too in the past, only listened to the new album once on his laptop speakers and told me he thinks there are no real memorable tracks on this album.

 

To be honest that kinda infuriated me on so many different levels.

• BoC's music is hardly music you will appreciate on your very first listen. Of course there are tracks that immediately tickle your senses, but a lot of them are definitely growers. You really need more listening sessions.
• How on earth can you judge an album on crappy laptop speakers? You neglect all the fine details (remember the devil?) that way.

 

BoC's music as we all very well know is not just plain music based on for instance only two or three layers. Take for instance the song Watch It by Robert Armani ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWt1M4rq9kU ) - that's a retro house classic. It consists of only a couple of very distinctive layers. It sounds really simple but very catchy. A track like that is definitely easier to judge on laptop speakers because it can be more accurately reproduced on a laptop speaker.

 

Now with BoC's music there are so many subtleties to take into account. The insane amount of layering they provide in their music is not something you should throw overboard by listening on crappy laptop speakers. They don't even produce bass! BoC without basslines?! And what about all the tiny little details which sink away in a muddled pool of "sound".

 

That's why I think that anyone should at the very least listen to this album on a decent sound system. Preferably on headphones so you can let all the fine details sink in. So you can hear the music like they meant it to be heard. They have said in interviews before they think their music is music for personal use on headphones. Immerse yourself on your own.

[pyramidpanes]

you know what's funny: without the stories, the music is actually even more boring. when you think there are hidden messages or a special 1 second sound created with an expensive and very secret instrument it might make you pick up the album again and again.

 

remember when the 12 second soundclip vinyl surfaced. lots of people thought it was a joke. a fake by maybe warp or the shop that sold it. this is because there was no story. the (little) music itself didn't really have enough substance to assure people that it was indeed boc. but what did they do after people realized it was them? they fed them another myth: 5 of these wonderful records exist and they hold some secret code that will help you unlock the magic secret website. and suddenly, people get excited about a random sequence of numbers and the record sells for $6000.

 

 

ermm i think most people thought the 12 sec clip it was authentic which was soon clarified... i think the initial marketing strategy was really exciting, (when it wasn't known as a marketing strategy) but in the end i didn't really care, i was excited there was a new lp coming, & it also soon turned quite conventional 4 better or worse, just look at their website now.

 

 

for instance when a track was played live at concerts in between artists i thought this failed as boc doesn't really fit that kind of vibe. but the desert party thinking back on it was really cool, the record selling for $5000 doesn't really matter. people pay ridiculous amounts of money for art limited editions etc and i think those records are quite limited.

 

 

Im not sure there is anything wrong with doing 2 interviews in 2 very large international newspapers, plus smaller press, when you have an lp out. keep it short & sweet. what else do you want to know? you want free hugs?

 

BOC are far more exposed now then say in the early 2000's so i guess they might have trouble dealing & adapting to that. on a personal level i've been listening to them since school so for 15 years or something & not really comfortable with all the chat around them these days & the mystique created around them by others, if that happened to me i would freak out especially if your trying to live away from society in some respect.

 

 

To call the music sloppy is just naive in it self, i think TH is a really tight reflection of the vibes of today (surveillance, economic collapses, climate extremities perhaps leading to a mass extinction event, over population etc, social collective memories & amnesia the list goes on)

 

BOC has never been super euphoric, have a few lines, get your rocks off, tunes, albeit there are glimpses of that but most of the time they are meditative & deeply melancholic, its music for thinking & doing, creating.

 

someone described it earlier by saying 'pared down boc' which is a great description. the simpler it is at times the stronger it gets. & TH is really potent & strong.

[pyramidpanes]

you know what's funny: without the stories, the music is actually even more boring.

 

 

 

 

 

Also what are the stories, other than going on their wikipedia page & jotting down notes, would love to know. Is there a new book with the stories or something?

[Terpentintollwut]

As much fun as it is to argue about this, I don't think BoC or their music needs to be defended by anyone ... it's not like they'd be upset about Nebraska having a different opinion and thus stop producing music. So let's not go overboard here ... however, for fun's sake:

 

that's because i don't think they do either well (the music is nothing special and their presentation of themselves and their work is also somewhat childish).

 

here is an example: in one of their interviews they said they were watching a lot of films and that influenced some of their songs- but they're also reluctant in mentioning the movies. so why mention movies influenced you at all? they obviously needed to implant that idea into the brains of everyone for a very specific purpose- because they see their own music as being visually inspired. but if they told you what they themselves see- they know it loses some mystery.

 

the reason i have such a negative view of this is because they seem like the type of people who'd read or hear rumors about them or something so fantastically fabricated, but as long as it builds the mythos of BoC they quietly ignore it causes people to believe it because "if it wasn't true. boc would clear it up"

 

 

childish - they'd probably take that as a compliment ...

 

I think you just have a different interpretation of their reasons than I do. I've created a few "hypes" myself, on smaller scale of course, I've got this one video on youtube for example that is just a montage I put together in After Effects, but it got adapted onto and is being discussed on several U.F.O. Alien Believer websites, the majority of people seem to think it's legit, hence it got re-uploaded multiple times by people I don't even know, one of the re-uploads has half a million views even ... and frankly I'm quite enjoying this, why would I spoil the mystery now ...

 

I think I recall BoC even saying at some point they're being intentionally sparse on the details as they don't wanna spoil the mystery for other people, which is totally understandable imo ... like with this Alien-vid (and other projects and hoaxes I shouldn't take credit for now, some even BoC-related ... ), I LOVE to see how people come up with their own interpretation of my work. I'd never blame anyone for doing the same.

 

remember when the 12 second soundclip vinyl surfaced. lots of people thought it was a joke. a fake by maybe warp or the shop that sold it. this is because there was no story. the (little) music itself didn't really have enough substance to assure people that it was indeed boc. but what did they do after people realized it was them? they fed them another myth: 5 of these wonderful records exist and they hold some secret code that will help you unlock the magic secret website. and suddenly, people get excited about a random sequence of numbers and the record sells for $6000.

 

Oh and don't forget they charged about 20$ for that vinyl, it was the "fans" who were selling it for 6000$, the profit goes to the lucky son of a bitch who picked it up ... which is probably something BoC and Warp anticipated, hence the rather high price of 20$ for only 12 seconds of music, since they knew it would most likely be a worthwhile investment (for the buyer, not for them), and to prevent some random person from picking it up from the 1$ bin and never playing it, of course.

 

Personally, I'd never pay so much money for a 12 second melody. I wouldn't even pay the 20 bucks for it. The melody is a nice little melody but that's it, anyone who says they'd buy this Promo for the music alone and that it could only have been made by BoC is indeed riding the hype-train. Even the bro's are probably facepalming about this.

 

 

actually, i don't take it seriously. i just find it sloppy like the music. real mysteries are interesting because they have a kind of absurdity that gives them a life of their own. this is just two guys not telling you anything- just enough to keep you guessing though. a

 

also, when i discovered this band, i completely ignored the whole myth about them (for whatever reason, it just didn't interest me) and just listened to the music. my initial thoughts were "yes. good music. but not great. what am i missing?"

 

when i started to put the whole myth (red-moon gatherings, hexagon sun mystery members, talking about cults etc.) i found it kind of interesting - or rather, i actually wanted to listen to it more to try and put it in context with the story. somewhere around trans-whatever highway, i lost interest. it seemed as though, after ditching the backstory, the music itself was... forgettable. so we're back to the story- and since the marketing campaign website, video and 12 second vinyl weren't enough, they're also harping a few limited interviews carefully revealing just enough details to keep you hooked.

 

I got introduced to them via a friend who said "Check them out, they're quite good!", the first album I heard was TCH which had just come out and which I thought was alright. I then got a hold of MHTRTC a bit later which I thought was absolutely amazing, and that's when I first started dwelling into their backstory. I knew absolutely nothing about the hype before listening to these.

 

Once I had read a bit about the way they do things, I gave TCH another chance, and another, and another ... and actually did notice a few things I didn't the first few times which made some tracks more enjoyable. It's still not going to turn into my favorite album, but I can put it into context a bit more, since they said they wanted to make "a pop album that sounds like it's been lying in the sun for a couple years", I can respect that decision of theirs and move on, since they actually succeeded at that quite well. Hence, my "personal goal"-theory - they could have easily produced Geogaddi 2 from Geogaddi-outtakes alone and probably sell way more copies, but they chose not to go down the safe route, which again, I find pretty respectable. (I still think "Hey Saturday Sun" is the most cringeworthy thing they ever did though )

 

 

 

Allow me to elaborate a bit on my statement and give you some context first. A friend of mine, who definitely has liked BoC a lot too in the past, only listened to the new album once on his laptop speakers and told me he thinks there are no real memorable tracks on this album.

 

To be honest that kinda infuriated me on so many different levels.

 

I've got a story for you, an even better one (which I may have told before):

 

My friend borrowed the DVD of "The Fall" from somebody (that movie by Tarsem Singh, the guy who made The Cell..), and I told him it may not be the best film I've ever seen, but it's got some amazing shots of interesting areas from around the world, and that he should definitely watch it using his projector. The next day, he told me he hated the film. I asked him why, and here's what he did:

 

He couldn't be arsed to connect his speaker system OR the projector (which both were readily available right next to him!!!) to his PC, so he decided to watch the film on his laptop screen, using the build-in speakers, of course. He also watched the German dub which I told him he should avoid because it is horrible. He then fell asleep about 20 minutes into the film and read the rest of the plot on wikipedia the next day. He thinks it's the worst film he's ever seen.

 

[Fredd-E]

He couldn't be arsed to connect his speaker system OR the projector (which both were readily available right next to him!!!) to his PC, so he decided to watch the film on his laptop screen, using the build-in speakers, of course. He also watched the German dub which I told him he should avoid because it is horrible. He then fell asleep about 20 minutes into the film and read the rest of the plot on wikipedia the next day. He thinks it's the worst film he's ever seen.

 

 

Oh snap. Do we even need friends like these? :)

[Terpentintollwut]

Absolutely yes, he is my best friend in the world! That's what they do, they're being dicks and you still love them.

 

(But I yelled at him for a bit)

[SR4]

Ive listened to the new album on decent speakers. If I have to invest in 5k speakers to get how good an album is, I give up on music altogether.

 

Who listens to IDM/ambient/techno music on cellphone speakers? That's fucking retarded.

[Terpentintollwut]

People at the back of the bus do ... I think ... could have been Vengaboys as well.

[Nebraska]

Allow me to elaborate a bit on my statement and give you some context first. A friend of mine, who definitely has liked BoC a lot too in the past, only listened to the new album once on his laptop speakers and told me he thinks there are no real memorable tracks on this album.

 

To be honest that kinda infuriated me on so many different levels.

• BoC's music is hardly music you will appreciate on your very first listen. Of course there are tracks that immediately tickle your senses, but a lot of them are definitely growers. You really need more listening sessions.
• How on earth can you judge an album on crappy laptop speakers? You neglect all the fine details (remember the devil?) that way.

BoC's music as we all very well know is not just plain music based on for instance only two or three layers. Take for instance the song Watch It by Robert Armani ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWt1M4rq9kU ) - that's a retro house classic. It consists of only a couple of very distinctive layers. It sounds really simple but very catchy. A track like that is definitely easier to judge on laptop speakers because it can be more accurately reproduced on a laptop speaker.

 

Now with BoC's music there are so many subtleties to take into account. The insane amount of layering they provide in their music is not something you should throw overboard by listening on crappy laptop speakers. They don't even produce bass! BoC without basslines?! And what about all the tiny little details which sink away in a muddled pool of "sound".

 

That's why I think that anyone should at the very least listen to this album on a decent sound system. Preferably on headphones so you can let all the fine details sink in. So you can hear the music like they meant it to be heard. They have said in interviews before they think their music is music for personal use on headphones. Immerse yourself on your own.

 

here's my problem with that mindset and statement. is there any music that doesn't require a good set of headphones or a decent sound system/speakers to appreciate? would you watch a film like 'the matrix' or even 'the godfather' and say "you know, you can even watch it on a 6 inch portable black and white tv screen with shitty speakers and you'll still love all the great cinematography etc" or do you still recommend the finest cinema screen experience one can afford?

 

so technology aside, the album should still hold water despite what the end-user is choosing to listen to it as. because it's possible some people might discover boc playing at their local record store on the overhead speakers or even on a student radio channel whilst doing their homework via the "crappy laptop speakers".

 

at my work, when we do screentests or even watch dailies, we never do it at a dolby studio with excellent sound. we've watched dailies on a small old tube screen (not even a flat-screen). and the reason is simple: you're always considering the worst case scenario. not everyone is going to watch or listen to your product on the best high end monitor or record player. in fact, the average end user doesn't even have the appreciation of quality craftsmanship and only depends on technology to tell him what sounds good.

 

so, if you still maintain this record sounds good only when heard through quality speakers, i'd maintain that as a flaw in the production.

[Nebraska]

Oh and don't forget they charged about 20$ for that vinyl, it was the "fans" who were selling it for 6000$, the profit goes to the lucky son of a bitch who picked it up ... which is probably something BoC and Warp anticipated, hence the rather high price of 20$ for only 12 seconds of music, since they knew it would most likely be a worthwhile investment (for the buyer, not for them), and to prevent some random person from picking it up from the 1$ bin and never playing it, of course.

 

yes, i'm well aware it's the fans that were selling it for that price, my point was that it's pretty "ballsy" of boc to issue that a limited 12inch 12 second vinyl knowing full well that people would sell it for that much especially after a what? 8 year hiatus?

 

it's like if justin beiber disappeared for 6 years then issued 6 limited edition 5 second cds through wallmart for $20. you know 12 year old girls would probably be killing one another for it then if some guy found one he'd probably auction it for about $50,000. on one hand you have to think "hey nice going justin. you got your fans running around like headless chickens for 5 seconds of you mumbling" but one the other, you have to think "what a dick to treat his fellow human being like that when he knows full well the cutthroat competition to get those cds"

[Nebraska]

 

you know what's funny: without the stories, the music is actually even more boring.

 

 

 

 

 

Also what are the stories, other than going on their wikipedia page & jotting down notes, would love to know. Is there a new book with the stories or something?

 

 

i think my reply to your other commentary is in my reply to someone else's commentary. if you wish a personalized commentary i can do that for you.

 

the stories i was referring to were all the number counting samples (what do they mean? where are they from?) the supposed movies that inspired them. all the stories they drop in their interviews hinting at some kind of bigger concept that people are trying to figure out.

[Ivan Ooze]

you fucking leave justin beiber out of this you filthy scumguppy

[hello spiral]

As an aside I'd just like to add, I've played Untilted on pound shop portable speakers and it still sounded good.

 

Also, I like TH but it's not an AMAZING album.

Kinda reminds me of the first GY!BE LP; doomy but pretty, apocalyptic little vignettes.

[Guest wza]

actually, i don't take it seriously. i just find it sloppy like the music. real mysteries are interesting because they have a kind of absurdity that gives them a life of their own. this is just two guys not telling you anything- just enough to keep you guessing though. a

 

also, when i discovered this band, i completely ignored the whole myth about them (for whatever reason, it just didn't interest me) and just listened to the music. my initial thoughts were "yes. good music. but not great. what am i missing?"

 

when i started to put the whole myth (red-moon gatherings, hexagon sun mystery members, talking about cults etc.) i found it kind of interesting - or rather, i actually wanted to listen to it more to try and put it in context with the story. somewhere around trans-whatever highway, i lost interest. it seemed as though, after ditching the backstory, the music itself was... forgettable. so we're back to the story- and since the marketing campaign website, video and 12 second vinyl weren't enough, they're also harping a few limited interviews carefully revealing just enough details to keep you hooked.

 

As artistic efforts go, I don't think there's a band quite like BoC that does what they do, but it's more art than some strange puzzle that needs to be solved (for me at least). The absurdity that gives things a life of their own as you mentioned is totally present in most of their work, this combined with the melancholic feel of the old vintage sound creates a very addictive atmosphere, and the more you listen to them the more you start to wonder about certain details and what they mean. But as much as I enjoyed seeing a band set up a really exciting campaign (that would lead only to the TH pre-order page, so that was marketing and nothing more) the insane buzz kinda killed it for me. It took me a couple of weeks till everything calmed down and I was able to clear my head from all distracting context that was pushed around the time of the relase that I could finally sit down and have a good time with my favorite band. As much as I enjoy reading sites likes bocpages or boc dedicated forums for the documentation of this bands talent for detail, for me personally they're best to listen to without any context at all, the magic is all between ones own ears imho.

[Candiru]

The Marcel Duchamp analogy is pretty accurate. This album was leaked a couple of days before Bleep made it available, so of course I pounced on that leak with the quickness. I honestly thought it was a "fake" sort of like what fans do when a new Autechre album comes out. I was really convinced it wasn't actually the album.

[AJW]

much ado about nothing. watmm. shitmm. fuckmm.

[Ivan Ooze]

*types a thousand words*

[Candiru]

much ado about nothing.

 

Yeah, that about sums it up. I mean it's an okay album, but what if there were no easter eggs or hidden subtext that the band had to tell you about?

[Ivan Ooze]

conclusion, tommorow's harvest is a hyundai

[Nebraska]

As much as I enjoy reading sites likes bocpages or boc dedicated forums for the documentation of this bands talent for detail, for me personally they're best to listen to without any context at all, the magic is all between ones own ears imho.

 

 

this is where i disagree (together with the part where you said it's more art than a puzzle). boc's music is made in such a way that the end-user is left to fill in some part of the detail. so it becomes personal to each individual because it's tugging at certain emotions. also their packaging is carefully constructed to hint at a narrative- but the pictures are cropped and composed in such a way that only half the story is told by the band and the rest is yours to recreate (an example being the film like montage on the inside sleeve of tomorrow's harvest with cropped desert shots or a close up of boots). it's fuels your imagination- together with the music instrumental music that's treated with a vhs texture (again) to scrub at old memories.

 

all these qualities by themselves are great- they're just executed terribly. 2 years ago a user posted the question on boc's facebook whether "rumors are rife that boc are working on new material. is there any truth to this?" to which an answer of "yes" was given. that was 2 years ago.

if it's true- and this is the result of 2 years work, then they've actually managed to make it sounds more like 2 weeks of work. i'm personally more inclined to believe they actually started working on this a few weeks ago and maybe spent the other 8 years chilling around san francisco looking for a suitable location to get that front cover.

[Candiru]

I bet they spent a lot of time chipping away at it and refining it, which makes it sound unfinished to a lot of people. They probably made a ton of music (much of which probably should have been included) but spent a while whittling it down into what we have today. It sounds like they whittled off too much.