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Why is it that everytime someone says such-and-such music is totally awesome, and you go and listen to it, and it sucks?


CharlesWatkins
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here's the atomic bomb of controversial opinions on this board: i can't stand kraftwerk. cheesiest, most obvious "robot" electronic music ever. fucking terrible group. every asshole who recommends them to me can die in a fire.

No YOU die in a fire!

 

I've gotta say that Kraftwerk are probably my favourite band.

 

So, like, opinions yeah.

 

 

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who would you cite as a major force in electronic music development round from the same era as Kraftwerk, if not Kraftwerk?

 

YMO, the Japanese Kraftwerk!

 

http://youtu.be/aHhYbVVDuoA

 

Seriously though, both groups were huge influences on an array of more popular synth based music later on, as well as hip-hop and electro. The context of the song above is itself more remarkable than it sounds - it samples arcade games (this is pre-chiptune AND pre-console VGM) and has a tongue-in-cheek melody that evokes exotica and orientalist music that was popular in the U.S. and the West in the 1950s and 60s.

Edited by joshuatx
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i agree on Kraftwerk, it was revolutionary pop music at the time that led to the creation of techno at least (Derrick May describing techno as Kraftwerk and George Clinton stuck together in elevator), but as any pop music it aged not well. They didn't help by doing the same cartoony shit for decades after its fame.

 

edit: besides obvious hip-hop/electro references

Edited by Amen Lare
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Computerwelt is very good if you like techno at all, I don't know what you're talking about. They also invented a way of working that is kind of different to what pop bands had been up to that point. As for YMO, to me BGM and Technodelic are incredibly beautiful in many ways. That they could release them both in the same year is just amazing.

 

Oh and Sonic Youth? They have plenty of bad albums but I've always loved EVOL.

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yeah, i dunno about kraftwerk. haven't heard all of their albums but the major ones i've heard are cheesy as fuck. the whole "man/machine" aesthetic is cheesy as fuck. i feel like that set back electronic music by at least a decade. i don't visualize cyborgs making the music i listen to, sorry. i find the best electronic music to be very human. everything about this is just...no thanks:

 

[youtubehd]VXa9tXcMhXQ[/youtubehd]

 

it's got nothing to do with xenophobia or their being german, either. it's just....i can't take it seriously at all. man, didn't mean to turn this into a kraftwerk hate thread, but they're the one band that i've had recommended over and over when i say i like afx or autechre or whoever else. i literally can't comprehend how anyone could like this music in earnest.

i think an appreciation of kraftwerk can really be helped by approaching their work with a finer sense of irony. trying to take them seriously seems to kinda miss the point imo. i think kraftwerk, as one of the first bands to make purely electronic pop music, they couched their interest in technology and humanity in an obviously humorous way. for instance, they made an entire album around the theme of computers and yet years later bartos confessed that they didn't even have computers at that time (lol). so in that instance taking them at face value is expressly missing the point.

 

that being said, i think one can find their message genuinely moving at times, especially tracks like "computer love" or "telephone call" which deal with feelings of alienation in the face of all this technology that's supposedly keeping people connected. these feelings are quite relevant today of course, just as they were 30 years ago. i think the idea that their music isn't "human" is something i don't really understand. for all their interest in technological aesthetic, every one of their albums expresses their humanity in a variety of ways and not just lyrically. for example, their employing two drummers rather than using drum machines, their sparse use of sequencers until the 90s, the abundance of sweet melancholic melodies, their employment of nostalgia (especially on "radioactivity" and "tee"), etc. I've always found them to be a perfectly normal, "human" band playing with various themes. i certainly have never been like "omg, he's programming his home computer and BEAMING HIMSELF INTO THE FUTURE!! cyborgs!"

 

considering they were one of the first electronic bands, a band that made purely electronic music that was oriented around dancing and pop structure rather than the heavier experimental realms in which electronic music tends to stray, i think saying that they "set back electronic music at least a decade" is laughably inaccurate. especially so from some one who claims to like afx since his work very obviously partakes in the "tradition" established by kraftwerk: lush pads, melancholic synths melodies over mechanistic beats, and so on. furthermore, to find yourself incapable of comprehending how anyone could like kraftwerk in earnest is pretty ridiculous. i presume that's just a zaph' tm hyperbole but seriously, it's pop music. with break beats. and catchy melodies and vocals. and incredibly refined sound design. and humor. and groovy bass riffs. i don't think i need to go on to convey how easily their music lends itself to enjoyment.

 

but yeah man, when i look at that video I'm just so fucking paralyzed by my awe at how futuristic and cyborgian it is. it looks like it was made at least one thousand years from now.

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Kraftwerk is not really about technology per se, it's rather about a (maybe romantic) idea of Europe which you can find in Constructivist art, city symphony films, etc. I'd even say their basic message is "lol jeans are for cowboys" rather than "lol robots are the future". As great as it was, early Detroit techno was much sillier about technology - remote control and microcassettes? My cosmic car?

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Kraftwerk is not really about technology per se, it's rather about a (maybe romantic) idea of Europe which you can find in Constructivist art, city symphony films, etc. I'd even say their basic message is "lol jeans are for cowboys" rather than "lol robots are the future". As great as it was, early Detroit techno was much sillier about technology - remote control and microcassettes? My cosmic car?

 

Yeah, their image was clearly retro-futurist, pro 1920s if anything. In a sense, they were poets of the future as it was seen in modernist utopias far away from the now. It was an idea of alternate state of now, how it could have been seen from the past, rather than vision of upcoming future. German tradition of romantism, sure.

 

Anyway, their message gave them success but it was the least interesting aspect of the phenomena. They were going for retro and made a joke out of this music aesthetics, but the joke became the actual reality.

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ugh i want to write out a kraftwerk is the greatest band in history post but I don't have the time. shit

 

I was about to say Dr Lopez might have a thing or two to say about this, before scrolling down and seeing your post and I'm slightly dissapointed with your lack of effort lol.

 

You wrote a nice little essay about them about a year ago on one thread, maybe you should fish that out the vaults, I'm sure you remember which post I refer to.

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it's important but mostly dull. This is what I do when I listen to Sgt Pepper:

 

1. "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" McCartney 2:02

2. "With a Little Help from My Friends" Starr 2:44

3. "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" Lennon 3:28

 

flip record or skip ahead

 

1. "Within You Without You" (George Harrison) Harrison

5:04

 

skip ahead or use the restroom or grab something from the kitchen

 

5. "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)" Lennon, McCartney and Harrison

6. A Day in the Life" Lennon and McCartney 5:39

Also, McCartney has his moments, but his contribution to Sgt Pepper is mostly his quintessential "granny music" tracks

 

 

Heh I'm almost exactly the same, but I'd also skip LSD, I've always hated that track. Within You, Without You is easily my favorite. Harrisons tracks usually are my favorites....

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http://vimeo.com/49165789

 

how could you not like this? super flat aesthetics in sound, i mean kraftwerk leads directly to drexciya.

blaming kraftwerk for being "obviously electronic" is like blaming J.S.Bach for being so obviously baroque.

also, they did evolve their sound, just compare the old tracks with their "kling-klang"remastered versions.

 

listen to this, it's way more modern, not a bit cheesy, and an absolute killer track.

 

 

 

 

 

people that hate kraftwerk should sign up to WEARETHEMUSICHATERS.

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some of us don't like silly joke music

 

By joke that became reality i meant electronic music in its current form. That's why Kraftwerk didn't know what to do next when their method won, they didn't expect it.

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Even if you don't particularly enjoy Kraftwerk's music, you must surely enjoy hearing the influence they have had on today's electronic music? As a big fan of Kompakt, it was amazing to hear those early versions of what I thought were trademark Kompakt style bass-lines, so many years ago.

 

I got The Catalogue last year for my birthday, without ever "properly" hearing any Kraftwerk prior to that (I'm 27) and it was every bit as good as I'd hoped. Of course, some of it sounds dated, but at 40+ years old - how couldn't it?

 

 

 

i can't stand kraftwerk. cheesiest, most obvious "robot" electronic music ever. fucking terrible group.

 

It's obvious now because people have been copying from them for 40 years, it probably wasn't so obvious at the time. This was a silly comment.

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