FM Synthesis (techniques, anecdotes)

[rst]

one problem i have with fm is how to draw envelopes. the numbers dont seem to correspond to time in a way i understand. need spec sheets for the envelopes or the envelopes make no sense. then add the timescale controls. i mean what do the manuals for any of the yamaha fm synths say anything about how time is treated on these envelopes?

(at least on the tg/sy77) it's not time but rate of change or the speed at which the envelope changes from one to the next level, thats why the env's length changes both when you change the rates and the env levels; i.e. at the same rate it takes twice as long for the env to go from 63 to 0 then from 63 to 31!

 

edit: maybe it's helpful to think of the rate parameters as the slope of the env. from one level to the next; i.e. 63 = 90°, 31 = 45°, 0 = 0°?!

Edited November 11, 2014 by rst

[rst]

ok, am at a real keyboard now rather than my so called smartphone.

 

so, i 'm not too sure about one aspect of what i said before, i.e. the scaling is most probably not linear; however i'm sure that the following is true:

 

rate max = immediate change from level x to y.

 

rate .... = env. changes from level x to y at rate r => faster at high values

slower at low values.

 

rate min = infinitely slow change from level x to y, i.e. no change at all.

 

however, rate here does NOT mean a certain time interval; the greater the difference between x and y is, the more time it takes to reach y! for linear scaling see above; however the scaling of the tg/sy 77 is not explained in the manual...

 

oh, i'm crap at explaining this stuff, esp. in english...

[Lucas]

hi ppl I'm lost in Sysex right now and maybe one of you can help with his science. I want to recover a DX9 voice (which means "preset" or "sound" in Yamaha's language but the FM scientists out there probably already know). I used this sound on a couple of tracks when I first got the synth but at some point I get rid of it (making room on the synth for a band project). I still have this sound in a bank sysex file (I mean a sysex file containing a full set of 20 presets), which is one of the six factory banks provided with the synth. The thing is, I just want to load this specific voice (which happens to be the first one of the set) into my DX9.

 

The other thing is, I think there's something broken because the last time I tried to back up my current set of voices as a sysex file (so from DX9 to computer with MIDI-OX) I really couldn't manage to do it (I made several posts over the internets for example here - don't need to read though it's not important let's just say I can't backup my current voices). If I could do that I could then load the factory set of voices in which the sound I'm looking for is, note on paper how this preset is made (OP algo, ratios etc), load my current set back and finally recover the sound by programming it.

 

But I cannot do that. So basically my question is, do you guys know if there's a way to make a single voice sysex file out of the whole set (20 voices) sysex file I have (precisely to extract the very first voice from it). I tried to read the sysex data and look how it's made but I definitely can't understand it.

 

Alternatively, I have a couple of recordings from this sound and could export some examples in case someone here wants to try mimicking it. So far I can't I'm still too much Fmoob for that (FM noob).

 

Would be awesome if someone can help I have a couple of tracks with it that I paused and that I'd like to finish some day.

[psn]

A DX9 librarian might help you?

 

http://www.squest.com/Products/MidiQuest11/Instruments/YamahaDX9/index.html

[Guest skibby]

[kanarie]

hi ppl I'm lost in Sysex right now and maybe one of you can help with his science. I want to recover a DX9 voice (which means "preset" or "sound" in Yamaha's language but the FM scientists out there probably already know). I used this sound on a couple of tracks when I first got the synth but at some point I get rid of it (making room on the synth for a band project). I still have this sound in a bank sysex file (I mean a sysex file containing a full set of 20 presets), which is one of the six factory banks provided with the synth. The thing is, I just want to load this specific voice (which happens to be the first one of the set) into my DX9.

 

The other thing is, I think there's something broken because the last time I tried to back up my current set of voices as a sysex file (so from DX9 to computer with MIDI-OX) I really couldn't manage to do it (I made several posts over the internets for example here - don't need to read though it's not important let's just say I can't backup my current voices). If I could do that I could then load the factory set of voices in which the sound I'm looking for is, note on paper how this preset is made (OP algo, ratios etc), load my current set back and finally recover the sound by programming it.

 

But I cannot do that. So basically my question is, do you guys know if there's a way to make a single voice sysex file out of the whole set (20 voices) sysex file I have (precisely to extract the very first voice from it). I tried to read the sysex data and look how it's made but I definitely can't understand it.

 

Alternatively, I have a couple of recordings from this sound and could export some examples in case someone here wants to try mimicking it. So far I can't I'm still too much Fmoob for that (FM noob).

 

Would be awesome if someone can help I have a couple of tracks with it that I paused and that I'd like to finish some day.

I don't know about the dx9 but the tx81z manual contains tables of the memory layout of the voice banks. Some bytes contain more than one parameter, so you really need that info, which is probably in the manual.

The first thing i did when decoding the voice bank layout was looking for the patch names (ascii chars, 41h to 7Ah).

I wrote the sysex bank as hex string, threw it into Excel and made a map for each voice like this (each colour represents a parameter group, yellow = op1, orange=op2, and so on) just to get my head around it..

 

[Lucas]

 

hi ppl I'm lost in Sysex right now and maybe one of you can help with his science. I want to recover a DX9 voice (which means "preset" or "sound" in Yamaha's language but the FM scientists out there probably already know). I used this sound on a couple of tracks when I first got the synth but at some point I get rid of it (making room on the synth for a band project). I still have this sound in a bank sysex file (I mean a sysex file containing a full set of 20 presets), which is one of the six factory banks provided with the synth. The thing is, I just want to load this specific voice (which happens to be the first one of the set) into my DX9.

 

The other thing is, I think there's something broken because the last time I tried to back up my current set of voices as a sysex file (so from DX9 to computer with MIDI-OX) I really couldn't manage to do it (I made several posts over the internets for example here - don't need to read though it's not important let's just say I can't backup my current voices). If I could do that I could then load the factory set of voices in which the sound I'm looking for is, note on paper how this preset is made (OP algo, ratios etc), load my current set back and finally recover the sound by programming it.

 

But I cannot do that. So basically my question is, do you guys know if there's a way to make a single voice sysex file out of the whole set (20 voices) sysex file I have (precisely to extract the very first voice from it). I tried to read the sysex data and look how it's made but I definitely can't understand it.

 

Alternatively, I have a couple of recordings from this sound and could export some examples in case someone here wants to try mimicking it. So far I can't I'm still too much Fmoob for that (FM noob).

 

Would be awesome if someone can help I have a couple of tracks with it that I paused and that I'd like to finish some day.

I don't know about the dx9 but the tx81z manual contains tables of the memory layout of the voice banks. Some bytes contain more than one parameter, so you really need that info, which is probably in the manual.

The first thing i did when decoding the voice bank layout was looking for the patch names (ascii chars, 41h to 7Ah).

I wrote the sysex bank as hex string, threw it into Excel and made a map for each voice like this (each colour represents a parameter group, yellow = op1, orange=op2, and so on) just to get my head around it..

 

Clipboard01.jpg

 

 

great, thanks for that. I don't feel like putting my head into that right now but I'll look later.

 

i wonder if "Lately Bass" refers to Massive Attack?

 

edit: oh just saw it's an original preset so that's a no, the synth was released before Blue Lines. nevermind

Edited November 12, 2014 by Antape

[sweepstakes]

also it would be cool to use an lfo instead of an envelope on a modulator operator if one wanted to.

I think the TX can do this using the same "amplitude modulation sensitivity" you can use with CC#2.

[kausto]

Interesting, thanks!

[Guest skibby]

hm, it would be cool if operators could be switched off the envelope thing and become LFOs and their rate go all the way to zero, that would be cool.

 

and also to lose the algorithm thing and use a matrix instead like fm8

 

and also apply for grants for me 24/7

Edited November 13, 2014 by skibby

[sun drugs]

been meaning to put together a samplepack of dx100 sounds for ages, might get around to it this weekend if some of you guys are keen??

 

 

A large part of how i work is do the sound design in some synths then sample the patch into my sampler and fuck it some more so i make these sample banks..

[Guest skibby]

yeah i guess the algo switcher is like a random button, especially with 88 of them..

 

i just wish i could get a quick grip on the envelopes. hard to figure out what to do with a hold,attack,decay,attack,decay,sustain,release on 8 operators.

[mcbpete]

New tutorial from Dubspot:

 

[Lucas]

could get a TX81Z for 120€, it's not my top priority right now but I'm itching to buy it...

[Guest skibby]

could get a TX81Z for 120€, it's not my top priority right now but I'm itching to buy it...

 

they're fun. i recently got one but theres a couple things that are irritating about it from an electrical engineering standpoint. one is that it hums loudly (the case itself) unless someone modifies it by adding an iron shroud to the power transformer, (which i fixed on mine) also, its not grounded right so if you plug it in at the wrong polarity the chassis buzzes to the touch, just like the macbook pro.

 

think will you buy it locally?

[Lucas]

ah good to know about the TX81Z. I might fix it like you did if I bother about that.

 

I would buy it on ebay in Germany, I don't think I'll find a good offer close enough or directly in Leipzig. But I don't know, if I find a good offer for a DX7 or a DX11 I might buy that instead. DX11 seems to be great but it's a lot more expensive than I thought.

 

TX81Z looks great as well, I'm just wondering how I would integrate it into my current hardware setup because the MIDI master is a MPC - I definitely want to program the synth so I would have to plug it to the computer and to use a MIDI merger (which would merge the MIDI sequences from the MPC and the MIDI info from the librarian). And this merger would add itself to the list of the things I want to buy for that hardware setup, which keeps growing at a worrying rate since I started making tracks in this new setup .

 

btw TX7 looks very ugly but it also seems to be cheap and is probably good

 

PS : do you use this programmer for your TX81Z? any comment on it, or the one you're using?

Edited November 24, 2014 by Antape

[Guest skibby]

yeah i would use that programmer if i had more time :)

[Guest skibby]

i forgot to add the tx81z has this well known problem that the rear output has a bad SNR compared to the headphone jack which isnt super optimal.

[Lucas]

 

never had these probs. imo go for it antape. if you can get a tx for $100 cheaper than the dx11 i'd go for it.

 

 

more or less consciously I was waiting for that kind of advice ;-) just messaged the seller to clear up a couple of details and if his response is positive well I guess I should have in next week or something. Definitely not reasonable but it makes me happy

[Guest chunky]

tg 77 is the king

dont bother with tx 7

you can make whole songs on a tg 77

cheap, loads of outs, a rompler that can do subtractive synthesis, drums, full featured fm, multitimbral.

kicks the arse of elektron, rolands, korgs.

Edited November 25, 2014 by chunky

[mcbpete]

Just picked up FM Drive for the very respectable price of €10 ( http://www.alyjameslab.com/alyjameslabfmdrive.html) which supposedly does a bit for bit recreation of the YM2612 chip

 

 

So much so you can even buy a card to get the Megadrive/Genesis to play the thing:

 

[rst]

ha. was checking that out a couple weeks ago, inspired by this thread and megadrive nostalgia. do you like it?

 

i should never have sold my megadrive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

btw this reminds me of the genesis bending compilation i still have to listen to!

[mcbpete]

ha. was checking that out a couple weeks ago, inspired by this thread and megadrive nostalgia. do you like it?

Not really had enough time to properly delve deep into it, but from what I have played with so far I've really liked. Unlike VOPM which I've had for years and still haven't really got a clue how to use it - this seems quite instinctive to get a nice sound from it. Although I did have a little trouble at the start with using the GUI (you have to press the Power LED to 'open it up') the author got back to me within the hour to help me through it !

[Lucas]

ok TX81Z should arrive today. started to do my homework yesterday and went through the manual before to go to bed. Still need to find a good programmer program. The TX81Z programmer looks good but I didn't see you have to pay after one month (not a lot though, 20$). There's also Ctrlr which looks good, but not dedicated to the synth.

[psn]

I'd like to try that.