"Phloam", "Start As You Mean To Go On" MS-20/606 Sound Advice?

[Defn]

Hey people!

 

ok just a quick sound analysis post here, just trying to find out the signal source and processing of the 'open hi-hat' sounds in these two tracks.

 

The first is

The sound in question comes in @ 0.40

 

Second is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0d6S0TY7Jk

The sound here is the generel loop, with its filtering automation. But also that metallic snare and the running and open hi-hats?

 

My rough opinion is that it could be a 606 hat heavily distorted on 'Phloam' and on 'Start As You Mean To Go On' maybe its a drum loop fed into the ESP of a MS-20 + some extra distorted or just running an analogue desk into red. But maybe you guys can elaborate on the sound type and its processing?

 

I'm a bit adverse to plug-ins so if anyones got any hardware based suggestions that be great!

 

Cheers

headphuq

[mcbpete]

'Saturation' is the effect you're looking for

[Defn]

are you considering 'distortion' & 'saturation' as two different things? because if so what exactly do you mean by saturation?

 

ive tried running a 606 hi-hat through a desk and running it into the red, ive tried through a distortian pedal. I've even tried running it through a space echo with the echo turned off to get it saturated that way and still doesn't give the desired effect.

 

@mcbpete - u from London? me too! where is good to go in London thats not playing standard 4/4 deep boring house music.

Im usually just at home making tracks, then wasting my money on mediocre tech-house nights

[mcbpete]

You might want to look something to a waveshaper for a bit more control to the saturated signal -

 

(ffwd to ~ 4:15 to see it doing its thing)

 

Aye, I'm from London - The Ginglik used be ace but alas it closed down this summer. As yet I'm yet to find a decent replacement.

[Defn]

Yeah cheers ill look into it, but as stated hardware suggestions are always the best! :)

 

yeah no IDM 90s techno nights in London! such a shame :(

[mcbpete]

Aye it would've definitely been hardware yer man used. Alas I'm a software junkie so know little else !

[BCM]

thread should probably be moved to ekt...

 

i'm also in london, corsica studios still has some good nights

 

i belive the metallic hat sound is definitely a drum machine being run through the filter of an analgue synthesizer, very likely a Korg MS series synth. the Phloam distorted 606 hat sound to me like just that - a 606 open hat run through a distortion pedal, it's not actually too heavily distored, just a bit gritty...it could also very well be tape saturation (i.e. purposeful distortion using a tape recorder/reel-to-reel machine) as mcbpete said.

[Defn]

yeah i put a night on at corsica not that long ago!

 

u might know it? Reel-To-Real

 

so i guess all my suspicions of his process were somewhat correct then!

 

whats everyone listening to then, if not Aphex Twin, seeming hes not put out any new material!

[mcbpete]

a distortion pedal, it's not actually too heavily distored, just a bit gritty...it could also very well be tape saturation (i.e. purposeful distortion using a tape recorder/reel-to-reel machine) as mcbpete said.

I'm an idiot - of course a distortion pedal ! It'd be cheap and lofi & gritty enough to make that sort of sound

[BCM]

I like to listen to dave monolith, jody kendrick, mattias östling (aka trackermatte), my own stuff, eod, impakt, fah...all pretty much braindance as fuck

[Defn]

where can i listen to your stuff?

[Defn]

bit annoying that they moved my topic!

[mcbpete]

I moved it to where it should be man - It's a discussion of production techniques hence into EKT....

[Defn]

yeah its cool, i get it! just wanted the aphex heads to have a proper look

[mcbpete]

Hang on a sec.. I'll symlink it (well the forum equivalent of)

[ZoeB]

Ah, those drums. Have you noticed how the Start As You Mean to Go On drums are the same as the On drums? (And 73-Yips for that matter. Note also the track name similarity in those first two.) It sounds like in On, the kick's also played an octave or two up to make a sort of second snare drum, like how you might get extra mileage out of a sample in a tracker.

Anyway, I've got very similar sounds out of my A-106-1, which is based on the MS-20's filter, so I'd be very surprised if it wasn't either an MS-20 or something filtered through an MS-20, especially given his Future Music interview in 1993...

[bunyip]

I have run the 606 through the MS-20 and it does sound similar but I think he has sampled the hats and is running the samples through the filters. They are way more static than the 606 playing straight. There are a few occasions where similar hats are playing melodic patterns in tracks from around this era and albeit not an impossible mod on tr style drum machines they too sound sampled.

 

Try using a Studio 440 sampler which is clipping the MS-20 ESP with a little bit/lot of quadraverb. The clipping/distortion/saturation is most probably from it running hot between the sampler and the MS-20 and then between it and the mixer rather than a pedal.

[ZoeB]

That would make sense. If It Really Is Me has what sounds a lot like a sample of a TR-808 rimshot played back in an arpeggiated fashion, a sound I happened to recognise because my friend and I did that once back in our late teens, in Impulse Tracker. (Huh, I misremembered, ours sounds more like an acoustic rimshot sample.) So it looks very much like he's using equipment in unintended ways, sampling the result, and then using those samples in further unintended ways, which is a pretty good way of trying to get a unique sound. Not many people seem to like getting their own old analogue equipment and sampling it.

 

The clipping being accidental sounds likely, these early to mid eras of his are littered with clipping where it's either a hindrance or charming depending on your outlook, and whether you're a mixing engineer or not. :)

 

The sampler in question is probably his old Casio, I'd guess, but that's not important. The take home message here is to get creative in whichever medium you're working in, then import the results into another one with different advantages and possibilities, then push that creativity further still. Nice.

 

Maybe it's time to make a sample pack of the Tiptop Audio 808-style modules through the A-106-1... :)

 

Is anyone else reminded of Mr. Oizo's setup (MS-20, TR-606, S-1000, not much else)? You can do a lot with just a decent monosynth, sampler and sequencer...

[Defn]

Cheers people this all sounds bang on track to me!

 

i'm all up for sampling my analogue equipment!

 

im gonna try tape a 808 hi-hat sample it into a EMU E6400 ULTRA, then run it through a valve pre amp and saturate the signal, then output the signal into the MS-20's ESP and fuck about with the filters!

 

ill let you know how i get on?

 

Also just noticed on Analogue Solutions website that it states that one of their 'celeb customers' is Richard D.James and that he purchased a Oberkorn sequencer and Concusser drum modules.

 

anybody know how the concusser drum modules are??

[ZoeB]

anybody know how the concusser drum modules are??

 

They're more versatile than the originals they're modeled after, which is nice. You can get a nice, wide variety of decay lengths out of the TR-808 style snare drum, for instance, which you simply can't achieve with the real thing. (I used this all over the Melodies From Mars inspired Blast Off!, for instance.) They need something like +8V trigger input though, so if your trigger or gate output only has +5V out, you'll need to run it through an amp such as the Doepfer A-183-3.

 

By comparison, the Tiptop Audio modules are fine with even +5V in triggers. They're better designed and built, I'd say, in terms of their look and feel, and consistency. They use surface mount electronics so they're usually only 4HP or 8PH wide, compared to Analogue Solutions' 10HP wide modules. They have the same tweaking options as the originals, more often (sometimes a bit more), so they're not as versatile as the Concussor range. And, of course, there are far more Concussor modules available at the moment.

 

I'd recommend the Analogue Solutions modules if you wand a wide breadth of available sounds. I'd recommend the Tiptop Audio ones if you like everything neat and tidy, and just want to use them with a minimum of fuss. The Tiptop Audio modules were much later to the scene (they came out just as I'd bought some Concussor modules, and appealed to my sense of synth tidiness, hence my indecision). When I asked Tom (Analogue Solutions) what he thought about the competition, he didn't seem too worried. :)

 

So both sets are good. Then again, so is the (digital) Novation Drum Station, I'm just too lazy to rig up all those extra cables whenever I want some drum sounds. Samples are good too. They're less tweakable, but you can alternate between two different kick drums for instance, without having to record two separate passes.

 

Oh, and then there's Din Sync's DrumDokta. And the originals, of course. And making your own drum sounds! (Seriously, filtering white noise alone is fun fun fun, let alone making more intricate patches!) So many options... :)

[marf]

ever own an ms-20? those hats are def those filters. maybe some ring mod.

[ZoeB]

I've never used an MS-20. I'd be curious to discover just how similar my A-106-1 is. At any rate, filtering noise through the A-106-1's highpass filter makes for some pretty tasty hi-hats. I've been using those quite a lot lately. I can only imagine that MS-20 filtered noise sounds just as good.

[marf]

he used the pvc, and esp in interesting ways combined with the filters and ring mod. also used those guitar pedals like bit crushers and stuff. im also thinking you here ems vocoder with the ms-20. like that words and music promo.. .