I learn some music theory - a question about musical scale!

[Guest]

Ha, I learned to play the clarinet 2 years ago, at the age of a methusalem (40!), learnt to read sheet music - and now, finally! I understood about the major/minor scale/key and what it is about. Also circle of fifth, etc. It's all so easy to understand - with the piano :) A clarinet is, visually, not helpful.

 

Honestly, it's really interesting. It all works so well. And you once again come to the conclusion: Music is maths.

 

2 questions, guys!

1) I like the sound of the harmonic minor (harmonisch Moll) - which has a halftone step between notes 2/3, 5/6 and then note 7 is increased one half tone - what does this sound remind me of? It's in some specific music genre I think? Which? As for explanation, here's c minor melodic: C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C

 

2) Well, this one may be easier to reply.

The C major scale works: C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

WHY doesn't this work as a circle? I mean I know D major works different, but why does it sound wrong, if you simply start D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D? Is it due to frequencies? Maybe there needs to be a specific frequency difference between the notes, and its wrong in my false D major?

[LimpyLoo]

Ha, I learned to play the clarinet 2 years ago, at the age of a methusalem (40!), learnt to read sheet music - and now, finally! I understood about the major/minor scale/key and what it is about. Also circle of fifth, etc. It's all so easy to understand - with the piano :) A clarinet is, visually, not helpful.

 

Honestly, it's really interesting. It all works so well. And you once again come to the conclusion: Music is maths.

 

2 questions, guys!

1) I like the sound of the harmonic minor (harmonisch Moll) - which has a halftone step between notes 2/3, 5/6 and then note 7 is increased one half tone - what does this sound remind me of? It's in some specific music genre I think? Which? As for explanation, here's c minor melodic: C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C

 

2) Well, this one may be easier to reply.

The C major scale works: C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

WHY doesn't this work as a circle? I mean I know D major works different, but why does it sound wrong, if you simply start D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D? Is it due to frequencies? Maybe there needs to be a specific frequency difference between the notes, and its wrong in my false D major?

 

1) Klezmer music is based heavily on harmonic minor.

 

2) Don't diss dorian; it's the basis of Miles Davis' "So What" and lots of other modal music

[Guest Rulohead32]

2: The semitones are always between the same notes, so in scale of C (Do) the semitones are in the third/fourth note (do re MI FA) and in the seventh/eight note (do re mi fa sol la SI DO). But if you start at D (Re) the semitones are still between MI FA and SI DO but as you started one place upper, they sound in the second/third and sixth/seventh note played.

 

If you play Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do Re it won't sound the same way as Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do cause the semitones sound in the "wrong place" of the major scale.

That's where the flat and sharp notes enter (the black keys in the piano).

[Cryptowen]

I like the sound of the harmonic minor (harmonisch Moll) - which has a halftone step between notes 2/3, 5/6 and then note 7 is increased one half tone - what does this sound remind me of? It's in some specific music genre I think? Which? As for explanation, here's c minor melodic: C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C

I suspect that musical associations develop early on in life, & vary from person to person. To me harmonic minor has a grandiose vibe to it, compared to the more emotional natural minor, & the bittersweet melodic minor (note how slight changes in pitch affect perception like that). Makes me think Russian symphonies, east european classical, stuff like that. No idea if those sorts of music actually utilize harmonic minor to any great degree, but probably I heard something in that style & that scale as some point in my early childhood.

[mcbpete]

2) Well, this one may be easier to reply.

The C major scale works: C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

WHY doesn't this work as a circle? I mean I know D major works different, but why does it sound wrong, if you simply start D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D? Is it due to frequencies? Maybe there needs to be a specific frequency difference between the notes, and its wrong in my false D major?

T T S T T T S

[Guest Rulohead32]

 

2) Well, this one may be easier to reply.

The C major scale works: C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

WHY doesn't this work as a circle? I mean I know D major works different, but why does it sound wrong, if you simply start D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D? Is it due to frequencies? Maybe there needs to be a specific frequency difference between the notes, and its wrong in my false D major?

T T S T T T S

 

C T D T E S F T G T A T B S C

[psn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(music)

[mcbpete]

 

T T S T T T S

C T D T E S F T G T A T B S C

 

Pwetty - Sorry yeah I was being a tad cryptic with my response there !

[Guest]

Thanks guys, 2) is clear now. As for harmonic minor and all those different scales - it's interesting how some specific moods are linked with those. Basically what everybody feels is that minor scales sound not as happy as the major scale. Well the 3rd note is decreased in all minors. But "Decrease note or play descending"="negative feelings" is probably a too simple equation?

 

Also it's interesting, there are so many scales which sound just wrong... so this is a question of our musical socialization, right?

So Klezmer often uses harmonic minor? Maybe thats why I like that specific mood of it...? I read that Schubert Death and the Maiden first movement also makes use of it, but descending. Need to listen if I can recognize it.

[Guest]

Dorian mode OMG. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Dorian_mode_C.mid - So this sounds like melodic minor with the 7th note lowered a half? It sounds so wrong!

[LimpyLoo]

 

Also it's interesting, there are so many scales which sound just wrong... so this is a question of our musical socialization, right?

So Klezmer often uses harmonic minor? Maybe thats why I like that specific mood of it...?

 

Personally, I enjoy dissonance. And for musicians, I think dissonance is a very expressive,overlooked tool. And ye I think one's ear warm up to dissonance with exposure. And I find the more I delve into dissonance the less I am inclined to simply use normal diatonic scales. Listening to Brad Mehldau really kinda sealed the deal for me about dissonance.

[granty]

Just popped in to say Howard Goodall's BBC series, 'How Music Works' is a very accessible and interesting way of learning some music theory - I think the first one overs melody and scales, and interestingly, how they originated.

 

[psn]

Dorian mode OMG. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Dorian_mode_C.mid - So this sounds like melodic minor with the 7th note lowered a half? It sounds so wrong!

 

I think it sound very correct, haha. As Limpy pointed out:

 

 

All modes can be explained in relation to either the major or minor scales.

Ionian - major

Dorian - minor with raised sixth

Frygian - minor with lowered second

Lydian - major with raised fourth

Mixolydian - major with lowered seventh

Aeolian - minor

Locrian - minor with lowered second and lowered fifth

 

Also - look out for the octatonic scales (whole-half):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octatonic_scale

 

And the whole tone scale (of which there are only two):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_tone_scale

[mcbpete]

Just popped in to say Howard Goodall's BBC series, 'How Music Works' is a very accessible and interesting way of learning some music theory - I think the first one overs melody and scales, and interestingly, how they originated.

 

aCE, THANKS MAN !

 

(oOPS cAPS lOCK IS ON - oH WELL TOO LATE NOW)