Monitors.

[TubularCorporation]

VERY happy with them, I only wish my current living situation let me set them up better.  I only have space to put them about 20" apart, and because of that I have to keep them parallel instead of toe in or the stereo image collapses too much - I had them toed in 10 degrees for  awhile and it sounded nice but I had trouble with separation.  If my room was about 3 feet wider I'd be able to put them on stands and space them better but even as they are they work really well and are great to mix on - there's just a really small sweet spot.

 

I dont' think conventional two way designs would work nearly as well in this setup since the distance between the woofers and tweeters would be proportionally pretty big compared to the distance to the listening position, the coaxial thing takes that out of the equation at least.

 

Some day I'd love to have the matching subwoofer but it won't be happening any time soon.

[thawkins]

On 10/16/2019 at 2:58 PM, Enthusiast said:

https://musicandmiscellany.com

This is an interesting blog by a loudspeaker designer who also reviews monitors for Sound on Sound. Some really interesting stuff about speaker design, the difference between hifi speakers and monitors (if there is any), repurposing and modifying old B&W speakers for use in the studio etc.

I found this piece about the suitability of Q-Acoustics bookshelf speakers for studio monitoring interesting. I have some of their speakers in my Av setup, they are excellent for the money they cost.

He also likes these Neumann's

Damn, the bigger Neumanns look good. So good in fact that I keep thinking about "what if the KH120A but with no more worrying about bass", which is not good for GAS or mental health.

Thanks to you guys advice in the studio pics thread I now put my stuff in an equilateral triangle and re-did the calibration thing... and my first impression's not so good. I feel I liked the wider stereo image even though that is probably psychoacoustic bullshit I just liked to believe in, and the rearranging also destroyed my carefully set up desk feng shui.

I think the main reason I might still not be 100% decided to keep the KH120 is that I find a lot of my favorite stuff not so well sounding, especially in the low end department. I guess it's fair to say that maybe some of that material is not particularly well mixed/mastered either though.. Because I do notice that when listening to more mainstream label stuff, it does sound way better and more in place.

Let's see how it feels next week... I probably did a lot of my listening this week in feeling tired and aggravated at various things so that may color my impression of the speakers.

 

[thawkins]

Thinking of getting a Neumann KH 750 DSP sub to fix all the bottom end issues I keep complaining about in this thread. I wonder if this is a dumb decision or not? 

https://www.thomann.de/intl/neumann_kh_750_dsp.htm

Gearslutz seem to be mostly concerned with the lack of app/manual, both of which now exist. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/1258394-neumann-kh-750-read-before-you-buy.html

Looking back on the BM15A, the lowest their spec goes is 40Hz, which is 12Hz less than the KH120's 42Hz, or approx the notes E1 - G#1. This is a really silly 4 semitone difference which makes me think that if I am seeing such a huge difference between, it means that the BM15A must have boosted the low end considerably.

In any case it seems that getting the sub will resolve all bottom end issues once and for all.............. if I manage to set it up correctly and put bass traps properly. Free lunches don't exist, it can't be just a plug and play deal.

[Nil]

It's not about the quantity of low end information, but rather about the usefulness of how these frequencies are voiced by the monitors. In my experience, what we hear below 300Hz is equally as useful (if not more) than what happens under 50Hz.

[thawkins]

3 hours ago, Nil said:

It's not about the quantity of low end information, but rather about the usefulness of how these frequencies are voiced by the monitors. In my experience, what we hear below 300Hz is equally as useful (if not more) than what happens under 50Hz.

I think I care about the informational content as well as the sound, meaning that I want to hear that the bass is playing an A1 (which is information) and I want it to not sound weak compared to the rest of the bassline (which is more down to feeling and sound).

I wrote that earlier post while at work, then as I came home I listened to the exact same mixtape as I did in the office, and I got to say I was very happy with how all the bass solos sounded on both the Sennheiser HD280 and on the KH120s. Of course that was from Soundcloud but what mattered more to me is that both times I enjoyed listening to it - never felt that anything was missing frequency wise.

[xox]

@thawkins

if you can buy the 750 sub! it has fantastic features for correcting phase and frequency responses of satellite speakers; your monitors will sound even better/cleaner + you'll have the needed sub of excellent quality. it's the best buy for the money!  

Edited October 23, 2019 by xox

[thawkins]

8 minutes ago, xox said:

@thawkins

if you can buy the 750 sub! it has fantastic features for correcting phase and frequency response of satellite speakers; your monitors would sound even better + you'll have the needed sub of excellent quality. it's the best buy for the money!  

Yeah I am thinking about it definitely. I am also wondering what are the chances of messing my bass frequencies up by setting it up incorrectly though...

[xox]

48 minutes ago, thawkins said:

Yeah I am thinking about it definitely. I am also wondering what are the chances of messing my bass frequencies up by setting it up incorrectly though...

0,13%

[thawkins]

10 hours ago, xox said:

0,13%

[thawkins]

Actually @xox do you know if the 750DSP absolutely requires an app to use (because I read a lot of comments saying that the app does not exist). And even if the app does exist, I don't really have an ipad for messing around with it.

[xox]

@thawkins
Afaik no, it doesnt, the app is an option. 

also, you dont need to own an ipad, you only need it to set the sub once you measure everything, so you can barow it from a friend or someone, just set it and forget it; afaik speaker should store the settings in it self.

but send email to neumann hq with the question, they have an excelent support, quick and nice!

p.s. I dont know if the app exist for sure tho. That too you can ask in email to neumann

Edited October 24, 2019 by xox

[xox]

The app is on istore

[sweepstakes]

Finally picked up a pair of Klasiks. Still getting used to them but the level of detail is pretty stunning coming from my buzzy Rokits.

[BaggerMcGuirk]

So it's time to update my own Rokit setup.  It's between the A7x or the BM5a MKIIs I think.  I wonder if it's a situation where I should buy online, or is it worthwhile to find a place that has one or both of these to test.  I feel like I won't really know until I get them into the studio, but perhaps it's best to see what they sound like in a more optimal environment.  

[thawkins]

The BM5a MKII are rear ported, so if you are like me and you do not have huge amounts of space to put between the back wall and the speakers, then you got to go for front ported.

I was in a similar situation and I actually ended up going for Neumann KH120A with the IK ARC sound correction bundle off Thomann. I am happy. It's not perfect but I feel my mixing has really improved over these couple of months that I have had them.

[BaggerMcGuirk]

Thanks!  I hadn't even considered the ports.  Now leaning towards the A7x, but the Neumanns seem interesting as well.  I just picked up a room correction mic, and my current plan is to use REW to get the most out of my current setup for the next month or so, but hopefully this will help me set up the new monitors as well.  

[thawkins]

The ARC IK system comes with a MEMS measurement mic and it probably changes a lot of things for the better. Although it requires you to run everything through a VST to fix the sound, and (at least in my case) it shows that I need a lot of low end correction. I have no treatment in the room though, just running this thing on good faith and prayers basically.

I have realised though that a lot of music sounds really good through the monitors, which is nice.

[TubularCorporation]

So I tried this about a week ago:

 

 

 

Did half a dozen measurements per speaker plus four with both speakers on, and all of them ended up with essentially identical results.  Took maybe 8 minutes total to do all of the measurements.

 

I also spent a bunch of time measuring from my tweeters and fussing with stands and getting the mic lined up right in the theoretically perfect listening position and did 3 or 4 measurements per speaker and a few with both speakers that way, too.  Tone sweeps and pink noise.  The results from those weren't significantly different from the "waving the mic around like an idiot" method, but it sure took a lot longer.

 

Anyway, I'm trying monitoring through a compensation IR for a while but I haven't had enough time to decide if I like it better or not (things sound subjectively better on my monitors but I need more time before I know if they translate better), but the big takeaway for me was that even though it's a weird shape and the speakers are positioned a little poorly and the only treatment is shelves of stuff on the walls and empty cases stacked in the corners, somehow I lucked into a pretty flat room. Other than a moderate bump around 150-175Hz (which just happens to be where I always find myself cutting a lot) there really wasn't much going on.

 

EDIT: I'm just using Room EQ Wizard and loading the IR into Reaper's stock convolution plugin at the end of my monitoring chain (which is just a bunch of meters, a safety clipper, and an EQ set up so that if I take it out of bypass my monitor level drops about 10dB with a EL curve to compensate - but I almost never actually use that), right before the dither.

Edited May 17, 2020 by TubularCorporation

[kakapo]

What are people using as stands?  Finally decided on some HEDD type 20s, and need some floor standers, with as small a footprint as possible.  Initial research suggests either very cheap or very expensive with not much in between.

And no, I will not be using a washing machine before you braindance savages pipe up.  

[thawkins]

I have some books under my speakers.

(Don't ask what's under the books)

[sweepstakes]

Isoacoustics stands. They are ugly but adjustable and really do improve clarity.

[Nil]

Isolate-it sorbothane hemispheres, the softer (30 duro) the better. Much better than IsoAcoustics (I've owned 2 sets). Sandwich them between your speakers and anything that can raise them to ear level.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/920196-inexpensive-speaker-tweak-works.html

Edited July 23, 2020 by Nil

[user]

Got a pair of gravity 3202 stands a couple of weeks ago. Was also looking for something with a relatively small(ish) footprint. I think these were the best stands I could’ve gotten for the money I had, don’t see how the base could be much smaller without having to bolt something to the floor. They come with optional spikes. Can’t say anything sensible about the acoustic isolation as I monitor at ridiculously low levels. 

They seem quite well made, I’ve had my share of badly machined stands etc that were a pain to assemble, not the case with these. 

https://m.thomann.de/gb/gravity_sp_3202_studiomonitor_stand.htm

[TubularCorporation]

So I was just watching this Modern Talking video and I saw the most forward-thinking monitor placement I've ever seen:

 

[thawkins]

What is MacGyver doing to that console?