Tomorrows Harvest - Today

[Terpentintollwut]

Even though I am on the exact same page and totally agree with Lump, Lyst, Candiru and Bordie, it's nice to see how this discussion is going rather maturely despite totally opposite viewpoints.

 

It seems the opinion on the quality of an album is mostly just a matter of ones personal impression of the "artistic integrity" involved in the making. The question is ... is there someone who "got it right" or is this just a manifestation of different views on music and life in general, hence utterly subjective? I'm not sure. But still agree with the guys I mentioned.

[beerwolf]

it's nice to see how this discussion is going rather maturely despite totally opposite viewpoints.

 

Agreed, prior to the release of TH the BoC watmm forum was like an (i)DMZ. Flack and shrapnel flying everywhere. And at least the new material was like a dampner on all that. I remember things get to boiling point lol. Almost all threads were locked or descended into farce. I'd admit through going through some weird fucking twilight zone myself, consuming loads of drugs and drink and dreaming loads of weird shit about this band. I remember one dream where me and BoC were living in some log cabin out on an ice floe, hunting for giant polar bears with crossbows! Wtf?

 

Sometimes I believe that although they reject almost everything that comes with being famous, and think they behave like hermetical Obi Wans out in the tundra. They are probably more fine tuned and conscious of their image than Autechre, who will just have a few beers and just do a AAA, and still retain their allure and composure. BOC would brick themselves at such a prospect. Way too vain. I think its a bit ironic how they say they take no notice of all the elements of being well known, it seems the opposite to me.

 

I have also come to the view that I am drunk on fine ale and need to get of the laptop pronto......fuck it, I'm pressing 'post'

Edited November 15, 2014 by beerwolf

[lumpenprol]

no it's a good post, I think you're on point re: their rather laughable "we hate exposure and the media but by the way we have whole album's worth of unreleased material, are never going to give you the boxed set we teased multiple times, or the film projects, or the acoustic MHTRTC, or anything else really. In fact we're as uptight as a mosquito's asshole...but we LOVE the attention! Peace from Hexsun". I've gotten over my anger about this but it does make them laughable in my eyes. Some of their last interviews (for TH) made this really blatantly obvious and ridiculous (can't bother finding the quotes).

 

I also used to have dreams about BoC, they were always very vivid and hyper-real. It was actually quite odd, as I've never dreamed about any other act that I can recall. It sounds a bit fanboyish but there it is; it surprised me too.

 

I have my own pet theory, which is that Mike used to be the prime mover in the band - as evidenced by the brilliant drums on their earlier work - but fried his noodle on drugs (you can see this progression through their band photos) partway through the process of Geogaddi, and from then on it's been more of a Marcus project - more emphasis on production, but less originality. Mike is seemingly back to earth but I think the genius has left. I don't have much of anything to substantiate this, and it'd take a long time to gather together all the bits and pieces that led me to this (admittedly conjectural) theory. But anyway that's my guess.

 

Btw I think the same dynamic applies to Orbital and to a much lesser degree Ae. In both cases I think there was a special dynamic between the partners that kind of got lost a bit due to the drug use of one of the members. In Orbital's case it was obvious that although Paul Hartnoll was probably the more musically gifted, Phil added some special dynamic that disappeared when he monged his brain out on drugs somewhere around the time of Middle of Nowhere. With Ae I don't think it's been quite as evident, but I think Sean does quite a bit of drugs and there was a point around Quaristice where he started looking pretty monged out in a lot of photos, certainly different from his previous laser intensity. He's still managed to keep up his love of making music which is great, but their stuff has been more terrestrial, more loose and jammy, and more hit-and-miss since then, though I still love it and they are my favorite act. What can you say, drugs giveth and they taketh away. And you never know which dose is going to be "one too many" until it's already happened and you're picking up the pieces on the other side. In the end it's usually the more stable but less inspired of the two - Paul Hartnoll, Rob Brown, Marcus Sandison - who ends up having more influence over the group. This has been repeated time and again, see Pink Floyd etc.

[markedone]

Quality use of the phrase 'monged out', lol

Of course part of the fun here is speculation, but your post jumps to a lot of conclusions about the band's personal matters. Like, I think its pretty natural that creative peaks, and interests, of any long music career will ebb and flow. We can have hints and theories about who does what, but not in any deep sense, and I think that the dynamic of making music as a duo is more about a deeper, more intuitive relationship. I'd like to think Mike and Marcus have both contributed to some lush drumwork, production, melodies, etc.

Also, while I could be wrong here, I have a hunch that your'e overstating the drug influence thing. For instance, I could confidently suggest that autechre are recently at their most rigorous and sober phase, and that an album like chiastic slide is more spaced out than Quaristice (in which they were simply more interested in banging out the creative essence of their current studio setup)

It also seems out of place to compare them with something like pink floyd, who are big-time public rock and roll type stuff. The more boc interviews, AAA threads, richard d james noyzelab type stuff we've been graced with, the more I start to see them as just dedicated, normal blokes who are pursuing their own interests; and doing such interviews as sort of a reluctant favor to their fans, not to play out any sort of rockstardom.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Marked x 0ne

[jules]

Even though I am on the exact same page and totally agree with Lump, Lyst, Candiru and Bordie, it's nice to see how this discussion is going rather maturely despite totally opposite viewpoints.

 

It seems the opinion on the quality of this album is mostly just a matter of ones personal impression of the "artistic integrity" involved in the making of it. The question is ... is there someone who "got it right" or is this just a manifestation of different views on music and life in general, hence utterly subjective? I'm not sure. But still agree with the guys I mentioned.

these guys are obviously aware of their own legacy. because of that, I'm positive they approach their shit very seriously. anyone questioning their 'integrity' needs to really check themself. they are not cashing in on anything. I'm sure they stressed and stressed about delivering a concise and quality piece. and they did.

 

lumpy, you shoukd know best about pre and post fatherhood. they went through many changes as a group, and as individuals over the decade in between releases. whether you have kids, or lose a family member, or get married, etc. major life events occur over that long of a timeline. that will be reflected in any artistic output, be it a painter, musician, scientist or whatever. holding an artist to your own preconceived notions is doing a disservice to the artist imo.

 

not sure how to end this post.

[Guest transmisiones ferox]

omg that lumpenprol post

 

[Candiru]

I don't do drugs. I do love and I got nothin but it for y'all.

[beerwolf]

beer = stupor in a glass

[sunshine recorder]

i think you could be right about the influence of drugs/stimulants tho, the more recent output has definitely lost some of that that druggy/haziness that earlier stuff had,but thats life,people change,the nostalgia is definitely still there tho,my lost boys avatar was created after watching the film for the 1st time in ages,and it was the track SUNDOWN which reminded me of a couple of scenes/soundtrack in the film,and the sunset artwork on the album also triggered childhood memories of the film,thats just me tho. their earlier releases had a strong hip-hop/beats vibe to me as well and that slowly faded from most of their work

[Guest transmisiones ferox]

yeah I really enjoy this album, I can't imagine boc without it, I think it's a new way for them, also for what lumpenprol have said, I think that people get together and still making music anyway

Edited November 16, 2014 by arvy Ictal

[Joyrex]

How about the production? I think this is one thing they really have pushed forward with Tomorrow's harvest. You have to play it loud to hear it tho. It has a little extra something that their previous albums didn't.

 

 

Obviously I'm not that guy, but I feel like I have to respond

 

 

Anyway, the reason why I'm writing this is because something Friendly Stranger said made me realize something: I really like "Tomorrow's Harvest", but I'm not nearly as obsessed with the band anymore. They're still one of my top bands--don't get me wrong--but it feels like this release has allowed me to move on a bit and stop wondering, for example, "What's up with BOC?!", which was a daily question for me for a long while.

same, but for me the reason is the album, track titles, and interviews from the time all seem to broadcast "the world is doomed, we're tired, and fuck you." That cured me of my fandom like a splash of cold water in the face. I think it's actually their most boring album, message-wise - it beats you over the head with the doom scenario

 

It's funny that it took up to TH for you to see BOC's message has always been bleak - even parts of TCH, while generally a "happy" album, have wistful, dark overtones.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say that their albums were always sad. I think that it all boils down to balance and good taste (of the band). Music Has The Right To Children does have some sad tracks, but it's not Tomorrow's Harvest sad- it's more about leaving your precious years behind, all your friends and places you've been to for something new. Geogaddi? Well, it's very trippy. It's definitely a screwed up album- but it's not 100% bleak like Tomorrow's Harvest. Oh and you just can't convince me that TCH (EP&LP) are as dark as TH! And then Tomorrow's Harvest comes along, its message completely clear, just like its setting.

 

 

 

I think TH is just more overt about it, due to the theme of the album.

 

And that lack of subtlety makes me feel weird about TH

Well, I'd say Geogaddi is much darker than TH, and much more overt about it's message, even though that message isn't as explicitly stated compared to TH.

 

no it's a good post, I think you're on point re: their rather laughable "we hate exposure and the media but by the way we have whole album's worth of unreleased material, are never going to give you the boxed set we teased multiple times, or the film projects, or the acoustic MHTRTC, or anything else really. In fact we're as uptight as a mosquito's asshole...but we LOVE the attention! Peace from Hexsun". I've gotten over my anger about this but it does make them laughable in my eyes. Some of their last interviews (for TH) made this really blatantly obvious and ridiculous (can't bother finding the quotes).

 

I also used to have dreams about BoC, they were always very vivid and hyper-real. It was actually quite odd, as I've never dreamed about any other act that I can recall. It sounds a bit fanboyish but there it is; it surprised me too.

 

I have my own pet theory, which is that Mike used to be the prime mover in the band - as evidenced by the brilliant drums on their earlier work - but fried his noodle on drugs (you can see this progression through their band photos) partway through the process of Geogaddi, and from then on it's been more of a Marcus project - more emphasis on production, but less originality. Mike is seemingly back to earth but I think the genius has left. I don't have much of anything to substantiate this, and it'd take a long time to gather together all the bits and pieces that led me to this (admittedly conjectural) theory. But anyway that's my guess.

 

Btw I think the same dynamic applies to Orbital and to a much lesser degree Ae. In both cases I think there was a special dynamic between the partners that kind of got lost a bit due to the drug use of one of the members. In Orbital's case it was obvious that although Paul Hartnoll was probably the more musically gifted, Phil added some special dynamic that disappeared when he monged his brain out on drugs somewhere around the time of Middle of Nowhere. With Ae I don't think it's been quite as evident, but I think Sean does quite a bit of drugs and there was a point around Quaristice where he started looking pretty monged out in a lot of photos, certainly different from his previous laser intensity. He's still managed to keep up his love of making music which is great, but their stuff has been more terrestrial, more loose and jammy, and more hit-and-miss since then, though I still love it and they are my favorite act. What can you say, drugs giveth and they taketh away. And you never know which dose is going to be "one too many" until it's already happened and you're picking up the pieces on the other side. In the end it's usually the more stable but less inspired of the two - Paul Hartnoll, Rob Brown, Marcus Sandison - who ends up having more influence over the group. This has been repeated time and again, see Pink Floyd etc.

LOL, you are so off base with those assumptions/statements... you know nothing about these guys' personal lives, and to assume that drugs are the reason why the album didn't meet your lofty expectations... your post is bordering on insulting, really - I know if I read that assumption about myself, I'd be pretty furious (even it was closer to the mark than I'd want to admit) for some fan to assume they have even an inkling about my personal life and how it affects my professional work.

 

 

Even though I am on the exact same page and totally agree with Lump, Lyst, Candiru and Bordie, it's nice to see how this discussion is going rather maturely despite totally opposite viewpoints.

 

It seems the opinion on the quality of this album is mostly just a matter of ones personal impression of the "artistic integrity" involved in the making of it. The question is ... is there someone who "got it right" or is this just a manifestation of different views on music and life in general, hence utterly subjective? I'm not sure. But still agree with the guys I mentioned.

these guys are obviously aware of their own legacy. because of that, I'm positive they approach their shit very seriously. anyone questioning their 'integrity' needs to really check themself. they are not cashing in on anything. I'm sure they stressed and stressed about delivering a concise and quality piece. and they did.

 

lumpy, you shoukd know best about pre and post fatherhood. they went through many changes as a group, and as individuals over the decade in between releases. whether you have kids, or lose a family member, or get married, etc. major life events occur over that long of a timeline. that will be reflected in any artistic output, be it a painter, musician, scientist or whatever. holding an artist to your own preconceived notions is doing a disservice to the artist imo.

 

not sure how to end this post.

 

Finally, the voice of reason! These guys (all of them) take their work very seriously - anyone to assume for instance that Richard just does stuff for a laugh really needs to re-examine his work, and the amount of care put into it. Raising kids is a huge, time-consuming endeavour, and it is very difficult to balance that with a craft like music making that requires hours and hours of attention - you can't just bang a track out in 20 minutes and then go back to changing nappies.

 

Music is a hugely personal and creative process - even if an artist releases something I hate, I can still appreciate the amount of effort they put into it. Music is a lot like lighting too - sometimes, it only strikes once, and will NEVER strike in the same place or with the same intensity twice.

[Goiter Sanchez]

While lumpenprol is concocting theories to corroborate his disappointment and Candiru spews (admittedly entertaining) metaphors/similes to describe his disappointment I am enjoying the living shit out of Palace Posy... It just perfectly captures the feeling of trouncing through a Montane forest on a sunny day.

[melancholera]

I'm still mixed on my feelings about TH. Right now I rate it around the same as TCH. Very, very good work that's at times transcendent (and overall better than 90% of electronic or otherwise music that I've listened to) . I must say this though. I feel that Jacquard Causeway is a total masterpiece that's overlooked by many or totally dismissed. I've seen it referred to sarcastically as an "epic" track. Thing is, it's some sort of anti-epic song. By the time the sustained chords come in at the end after this build up of transient synth lines, it's like it's saying that the best is over. This happens with a charged melancholy and sublime acceptance. [/musiccritcinmyself]

 

 

I think the snare could have been mixed a little lower.

 

Edited November 18, 2014 by melancholera

[Goiter Sanchez]

I'm still mixed on my feelings about TH. Right now I rate it around the same as TCH. Very, very good work that's at times transcendent (and overall better than 90% of electronic or otherwise music that I've listened to) . I must say this though. I feel that Jacquard Causeway is a total masterpiece that's overlooked by many or totally dismissed. I've seen it referred to sarcastically as an "epic" track. Thing is, it's some sort of anti-epic song. By the time the sustained chords come in at the end after this build up of transient synth lines, it's like it's saying that the best is over. This happens with a charged melancholy and sublime acceptance. [/musiccritcinmyself]

 

 

I think the snare could have been mixed a little lower.

 

Interesting analysis of JC. With regard to the themes going on I have rationalized JC as a highly mechanical sounding, train-like percussion in 3/4 being the technological foil to the organic synths (in 4/4) representing life/our primordial selves; the synths sound increasingly distressed and mournful as the track progresses (technology outpacing organic life). It's one of their most unusual tracks structurally and I have a huge respect for them not only featuring it on the album, but featuring it so prominently (within the first 4 tracks).

[Candiru]

The beat on that track is so dogshit it's really what makes it so fun to bash this album(and I don't even really hate the album)

[Joyrex]

The beat on that track is so dogshit it's really what makes it so fun to bash this album(and I don't even really hate the album)

...in your opinion, right?

[Guest transmisiones ferox]

Come to Dust is one of most powerful massive tracks they ever put in,but has somebody notice the live drum part which comes at around 2;00? that fuckin thing just melt my brain, I swear this is A FCKIN MENACE, this album is punches me right in the face and I love, i fuckin love it

[Bordie]

Come to Dust is one of most powerful massive tracks they ever put in,but has somebody notice the live drum part which comes at around 2;00? that fuckin thing just melt my brain, I swear this is A FCKIN MENACE, this album is punches me right in the face and I love, i fuckin love it

I have the first time I've heard the track, it's meh

[Dale]

I keep returning to this thread to report the news again that I thoroughly enjoy this album and still probably rate it as their best release so far (according to my nervous system).

[Candiru]

I had the BEST fucking bbq ribs last night.

[Tricone RC]

 

Interesting analysis of JC. With regard to the themes going on I have rationalized JC as a highly mechanical sounding, train-like percussion in 3/4 being the technological foil to the organic synths (in 4/4) representing life/our primordial selves; the synths sound increasingly distressed and mournful as the track progresses (technology outpacing organic life). It's one of their most unusual tracks structurally and I have a huge respect for them not only featuring it on the album, but featuring it so prominently (within the first 4 tracks).

 

Well that track is almost definitely a nod to Albert Jacquard, who advocates that we deliberately shrink economies in order to avoid future economic and/or ecological problems. So the "plodding" beat with its different time sig, invoked ideas of a stagnant economy "plodding" along, or of economic practices out-of-step with reality?

 

I think the message/s behind this album is/are much more blatant than any before. With earlier albums I think they were just burying vague references in tracks for teh lulz, whereas with this album they really meant for it to be a crucial component of the experience

[Guest transmisiones ferox]

 

 

Interesting analysis of JC. With regard to the themes going on I have rationalized JC as a highly mechanical sounding, train-like percussion in 3/4 being the technological foil to the organic synths (in 4/4) representing life/our primordial selves; the synths sound increasingly distressed and mournful as the track progresses (technology outpacing organic life). It's one of their most unusual tracks structurally and I have a huge respect for them not only featuring it on the album, but featuring it so prominently (within the first 4 tracks).

 

Well that track is almost definitely a nod to Albert Jacquard, who advocates that we deliberately shrink economies in order to avoid future economic and/or ecological problems. So the "plodding" beat with its different time sig, invoked ideas of a stagnant economy "plodding" along, or of economic practices out-of-step with reality?

 

I think the message/s behind this album is/are much more blatant than any before. With earlier albums I think they were just burying vague references in tracks for teh lulz, whereas with this album they really meant for it to be a crucial component of the experience

 

I personally don't hear any "stagnation" in JC, it has very steady pulse, which delivers by those hi-hats, almost like stabs, with the progression of the track the moaning grows and eventually echoes it self.

[fizzkinz]

Well that track is almost definitely a nod to Albert Jacquard, who advocates that we deliberately shrink economies in order to avoid future economic and/or ecological problems. So the "plodding" beat with its different time sig, invoked ideas of a stagnant economy "plodding" along, or of economic practices out-of-step with reality?

 

I think the message/s behind this album is/are much more blatant than any before. With earlier albums I think they were just burying vague references in tracks for teh lulz, whereas with this album they really meant for it to be a crucial component of the experience

Almost definitely?

That's a pretty definitive statement for what amounts to just an interpretation/assumption

Who says it's not a reference to the Jacquard loom? Or some other thing that has nothing to do with any of this?

[th555]

Don't be silly it's obviously a reference to John Causeway.

[fizzkinz]

There can be no denying it is a reference to the old poker saying "card cause quay jaw"