Malaysian airliner shot down, 295 dead

[joshuatxuk]

Some chatter that CNN (and other outlets, doubtless) have been running live footage that is seriously graphic, I guess that's me not watching any news for the next 24 hours then.

 

Oh, and seeing a picture of a pile of near-pristine passports gathered together? Fuck this planet, put me on the next flight to Mars.

 

When Korean Airlines 007 was shot down in 1983 there was a photo of all of the shoes that washed up onshore. Some heavy shit.

 

yeah this is fucked.. also too coincidental about a MISSING (wtf) Malaysian Airlines flight, and then months later, a SHOT DOWN Malaysian Airlines flight. This is insane.

 

Tragic coincidence. I'm curious what other airliners are flying over that region - it's not an atypical route. Lot of Dutch nationals apparently on board.

 

 

Ukraine says it was the rebels.

 

The rebels say it was Ukraine.

 

Ukraine has more to gain from this than the rebels.

 

The rebels aren't proven to have the technology capable to do this.

 

 

 

I'm not sure who did this, but it's bad.

 

The rebels aren't proven, but an AP reporter did say that he had seen a SAM system in Eastern Ukraine earlier this week.

 

 

 

An Associated Press reporter on Thursday saw seven rebel-owned tanks parked at a gas station outside the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne. In the town, he also observed a Buk missile system, which can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-air-force-jet-downed-russian-missile-24598894

 

Seeing as Russia has been supporting, if not providing the rebels in this area, it makes sense as a way for Russia to "intervene and help" Ukraine against the growing rebel power, thereby expanding their power into Crimea as they've been wanting to do.

 

 

It is not out of the realm of possibility the Russian speaking/pro-Russian rebels did it. Regarding the Buk missile systems: if it was indeed used it was probably Ukrainian military equipment captured earlier during the insurgency by the insurgents. These systems are setup at Ukrainian airbases, including ones captured recently. Rebels also have small numbers of tanks, armored vehicles, and artillery. Much of it was captured.

 

Typical shoulder launched or smaller vehicle launch systems the insurgents "acquired" via smuggling/blackmarket/etc. are not high altitude units. That Malaysian aircraft would of been at 40,000 ft. The Ukrainian and helicopters planes shot down during the conflict have been likely flying a lot lower, and one of the many planes destroyed was a large transporter.

 

There's no hard evidence yet it was shot down, let alone by the insurgents. It could of been a Ukrainian or Russian operated SAM, a Russian or Ukrainian jet fighter. This war is literally being fought over cities and towns while the regions civilians try to live normally. We're not even talking about a fully-fledged war zone as all of this heavy (though sporadic) fighting is occurring.

[Rubin Farr]

apparently Jason Biggs is being a huge twat about this on twitter. Fuck that has been.

[joshuatxuk]

Also, I urge eveyone I know to be skeptical of any claims by any biased parties. People in power with agendas in this region spinning this as we speak. There's plenty of conspiracy angles to explore for many as well. Hell, the Vietnam war was escalated over something far smaller and tactically fabricated.

[Hugh Mughnus]

 

Some chatter that CNN (and other outlets, doubtless) have been running live footage that is seriously graphic, I guess that's me not watching any news for the next 24 hours then.

 

Oh, and seeing a picture of a pile of near-pristine passports gathered together? Fuck this planet, put me on the next flight to Mars.

 

When Korean Airlines 007 was shot down in 1983 there was a photo of all of the shoes that washed up onshore. Some heavy shit.

 

yeah this is fucked.. also too coincidental about a MISSING (wtf) Malaysian Airlines flight, and then months later, a SHOT DOWN Malaysian Airlines flight. This is insane.

 

Tragic coincidence. I'm curious what other airliners are flying over that region - it's not an atypical route. Lot of Dutch nationals apparently on board.

 

 

Ukraine says it was the rebels.

 

The rebels say it was Ukraine.

 

Ukraine has more to gain from this than the rebels.

 

The rebels aren't proven to have the technology capable to do this.

 

 

 

I'm not sure who did this, but it's bad.

 

The rebels aren't proven, but an AP reporter did say that he had seen a SAM system in Eastern Ukraine earlier this week.

 

 

 

An Associated Press reporter on Thursday saw seven rebel-owned tanks parked at a gas station outside the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne. In the town, he also observed a Buk missile system, which can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-air-force-jet-downed-russian-missile-24598894

 

Seeing as Russia has been supporting, if not providing the rebels in this area, it makes sense as a way for Russia to "intervene and help" Ukraine against the growing rebel power, thereby expanding their power into Crimea as they've been wanting to do.

 

 

It is not out of the realm of possibility the Russian speaking/pro-Russian rebels did it. Regarding the Buk missile systems: if it was indeed used it was probably Ukrainian military equipment captured earlier during the insurgency by the insurgents. These systems are setup at Ukrainian airbases, including ones captured recently. Rebels also have small numbers of tanks, armored vehicles, and artillery. Much of it was captured.

 

Typical shoulder launched or smaller vehicle launch systems the insurgents "acquired" via smuggling/blackmarket/etc. are not high altitude units. That Malaysian aircraft would of been at 40,000 ft. The Ukrainian and helicopters planes shot down during the conflict have been likely flying a lot lower, and one of the many planes destroyed was a large transporter.

 

There's no hard evidence yet it was shot down, let alone by the insurgents. It could of been a Ukrainian or Russian operated SAM, a Russian or Ukrainian jet fighter. This war is literally being fought over cities and towns while the regions civilians try to live normally. We're not even talking about a fully-fledged war zone as all of this heavy (though sporadic) fighting is occurring.

 

 

So if pro-russian rebels did this, why is Russia still supporting them politically even?

If they are committing such crimes as shooting down civilian claims, why isn't the Russian government distancing themselves from these rebels instead of saying "we will protect the interests of Russian speaking ukrainian people" etc?

Also, I urge eveyone I know to be skeptical of any claims by any biased parties. People in power with agendas in this region spinning this as we speak. There's plenty of conspiracy angles to explore for many as well. Hell, the Vietnam war was escalated over something far smaller and tactically fabricated.

Agreed.

[joshuatxuk]

 

 

Some chatter that CNN (and other outlets, doubtless) have been running live footage that is seriously graphic, I guess that's me not watching any news for the next 24 hours then.

 

Oh, and seeing a picture of a pile of near-pristine passports gathered together? Fuck this planet, put me on the next flight to Mars.

 

When Korean Airlines 007 was shot down in 1983 there was a photo of all of the shoes that washed up onshore. Some heavy shit.

 

yeah this is fucked.. also too coincidental about a MISSING (wtf) Malaysian Airlines flight, and then months later, a SHOT DOWN Malaysian Airlines flight. This is insane.

 

Tragic coincidence. I'm curious what other airliners are flying over that region - it's not an atypical route. Lot of Dutch nationals apparently on board.

 

 

Ukraine says it was the rebels.

 

The rebels say it was Ukraine.

 

Ukraine has more to gain from this than the rebels.

 

The rebels aren't proven to have the technology capable to do this.

 

 

 

I'm not sure who did this, but it's bad.

 

The rebels aren't proven, but an AP reporter did say that he had seen a SAM system in Eastern Ukraine earlier this week.

 

 

 

An Associated Press reporter on Thursday saw seven rebel-owned tanks parked at a gas station outside the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne. In the town, he also observed a Buk missile system, which can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-air-force-jet-downed-russian-missile-24598894

 

Seeing as Russia has been supporting, if not providing the rebels in this area, it makes sense as a way for Russia to "intervene and help" Ukraine against the growing rebel power, thereby expanding their power into Crimea as they've been wanting to do.

 

 

It is not out of the realm of possibility the Russian speaking/pro-Russian rebels did it. Regarding the Buk missile systems: if it was indeed used it was probably Ukrainian military equipment captured earlier during the insurgency by the insurgents. These systems are setup at Ukrainian airbases, including ones captured recently. Rebels also have small numbers of tanks, armored vehicles, and artillery. Much of it was captured.

 

Typical shoulder launched or smaller vehicle launch systems the insurgents "acquired" via smuggling/blackmarket/etc. are not high altitude units. That Malaysian aircraft would of been at 40,000 ft. The Ukrainian and helicopters planes shot down during the conflict have been likely flying a lot lower, and one of the many planes destroyed was a large transporter.

 

There's no hard evidence yet it was shot down, let alone by the insurgents. It could of been a Ukrainian or Russian operated SAM, a Russian or Ukrainian jet fighter. This war is literally being fought over cities and towns while the regions civilians try to live normally. We're not even talking about a fully-fledged war zone as all of this heavy (though sporadic) fighting is occurring.

 

 

So if pro-russian rebels did this, why is Russia still supporting them politically even?

If they are committing such crimes as shooting down civilian claims, why isn't the Russian government distancing themselves from these rebels instead of saying "we will protect the interests of Russian speaking ukrainian people" etc?

 

 

Whoa, that's a stretch to say they purposely shot this down. If they did, they were likely trying to shoot down another Ukrainian military plane, which unlike NATO or USAF transports, are not painted in military grey or green.

 

Example, Ukranian IL-76

 

 

In fact, saying a Russian made missile likely shot it down is highly misleading unintentionally, because the Russians, Ukranians, and insurgents (and the Ukranian militias) ALL use Soviet and Russian made equipment.

 

Russia isn't, at least on the surface, supporting the insurgents. In fact, most of their support is coming from locals in that part of Ukraine. Before actual fighting began it was extremely common for Ukrainian forces IN Ukraine to be yelled at and/or awkwardly questioned by local Russian-speaking Ukrainian citizens. They were literally asking them to leave and let the pro-Russian forces to take over the buildings.

This conflict has a lot of very complicated and emotionally charged elements to it, lot of which goes back to atrocities and divisions during WWII. For all the peaceful pro-EU Ukrainians there are also very militant, right-wing (and even National Socialist) aligned anti-Russian activists as well. Many are forming Ukrainian militias. NATO and Russia have been monitoring this and, while showing off military abilities, are essentially sitting out of the conflict.

[Guest Roksen Creek]

http://jeziorki.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/high-over-eastern-ukraine.html

[joshuatxuk]

For the record I don't trust the Russian government and question their actual intentions, but likewise I'm perpetually upset by the spin the U.S. and many NATO/EU countries are putting on this as well. Even one of my local news network in Austin was still running an outdated story that 23 Americans might of been on board and then followed it up, needlessly and misleadingly, with an interview with a local pro-Euromaiden activist. This story is way to early to even explore those angles.

[Hugh Mughnus]

 

 

 

Some chatter that CNN (and other outlets, doubtless) have been running live footage that is seriously graphic, I guess that's me not watching any news for the next 24 hours then.

 

Oh, and seeing a picture of a pile of near-pristine passports gathered together? Fuck this planet, put me on the next flight to Mars.

 

When Korean Airlines 007 was shot down in 1983 there was a photo of all of the shoes that washed up onshore. Some heavy shit.

 

yeah this is fucked.. also too coincidental about a MISSING (wtf) Malaysian Airlines flight, and then months later, a SHOT DOWN Malaysian Airlines flight. This is insane.

 

Tragic coincidence. I'm curious what other airliners are flying over that region - it's not an atypical route. Lot of Dutch nationals apparently on board.

 

 

Ukraine says it was the rebels.

 

The rebels say it was Ukraine.

 

Ukraine has more to gain from this than the rebels.

 

The rebels aren't proven to have the technology capable to do this.

 

 

 

I'm not sure who did this, but it's bad.

 

The rebels aren't proven, but an AP reporter did say that he had seen a SAM system in Eastern Ukraine earlier this week.

 

 

 

An Associated Press reporter on Thursday saw seven rebel-owned tanks parked at a gas station outside the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne. In the town, he also observed a Buk missile system, which can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-air-force-jet-downed-russian-missile-24598894

 

Seeing as Russia has been supporting, if not providing the rebels in this area, it makes sense as a way for Russia to "intervene and help" Ukraine against the growing rebel power, thereby expanding their power into Crimea as they've been wanting to do.

 

 

It is not out of the realm of possibility the Russian speaking/pro-Russian rebels did it. Regarding the Buk missile systems: if it was indeed used it was probably Ukrainian military equipment captured earlier during the insurgency by the insurgents. These systems are setup at Ukrainian airbases, including ones captured recently. Rebels also have small numbers of tanks, armored vehicles, and artillery. Much of it was captured.

 

Typical shoulder launched or smaller vehicle launch systems the insurgents "acquired" via smuggling/blackmarket/etc. are not high altitude units. That Malaysian aircraft would of been at 40,000 ft. The Ukrainian and helicopters planes shot down during the conflict have been likely flying a lot lower, and one of the many planes destroyed was a large transporter.

 

There's no hard evidence yet it was shot down, let alone by the insurgents. It could of been a Ukrainian or Russian operated SAM, a Russian or Ukrainian jet fighter. This war is literally being fought over cities and towns while the regions civilians try to live normally. We're not even talking about a fully-fledged war zone as all of this heavy (though sporadic) fighting is occurring.

 

 

So if pro-russian rebels did this, why is Russia still supporting them politically even?

If they are committing such crimes as shooting down civilian claims, why isn't the Russian government distancing themselves from these rebels instead of saying "we will protect the interests of Russian speaking ukrainian people" etc?

 

 

Whoa, that's a stretch to say they purposely shot this down.

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't trying to suggest this.

 

But you don't accidentally shoot down a plane that is flying at 40,000 feet, or 33,000 feet or whatever. They (whoever that is) purposely shot down a plane without verifying what it might be, negligently, in that it was a plane flying a common civilian airliner flightpath at a common altitude for said civilian aircraft. That's all I meant.

 

All sources suggest there is no way for the so called "rebels" to get their hands on the technology required to shoot down planes at this altitude.

[awepittance]

 

CNN/FOxNews in between 'shock and awe' style live footage of Gaza being ariel bombed are alluding to Russian government involvement in the Malaysian plane crash. Propaganda dispersal cranked to 11 at the moment on multiple fronts

 

How is it propaganda? It might have the effect of influencing the opinions of people, but if it's factual then how is it propaganda?

 

Gaza is being bombed, and russia (likely) has involvement in the malaysian plane being shot down.

 

Is it the way they are reporting it that makes it propaganda?

 

are you actually watching it? It's the same flavor of innuendo spreading that CNN and FOx News did to get us into Iraq via linking Saddam to wmds and 9/11. I'm just saying it's far too early to point fingers, and you better believe that their intent is to point as many fingers towards Russia as possible while the actual evidence is still piling in

 

 

All sources suggest there is no way for the so called "rebels" to get their hands on the technology required to shoot down planes at this altitude.

 

 

funny you should mention this, all of these 'sources' have so far only been labeled 'intelligence officials' by the news media, aka anonymous sources, aka innuendo and propaganda planting. Seriously, have you not caught onto their techniques yet?

 

when you constantly hear them repeating the line 'sources say' without revealing the source, 9 times out of 10 its an intentional leak designed to sway the narrative without actual proof. If they had proof they would just have Obama or Biden go out and say it, but they dont

[awepittance]

This story is way to early to even explore those angles.

but yet this is what our trusted mainstream media sources have been doing all day in between shots of bombs falling on Gaza.

[Hugh Mughnus]

I'm not actually watching it. I don't watch the news, it's all shitty and so blatantly obviously politically slanted to me that I can't stand it.

 

I wasn't being facetious when I asked "is it the way they are reporting it...".

 

You are indicating that yes it's the way they're reporting it.

 

 

Also you seem to think I'm assuming it's Russian/rebels. Most signs point to yes, but really Ukraine has the most to gain from this AND they have the technology to do this.

[awepittance]

just keep in mind also that there have been thousands of Washington DC cold warriors who have been clamoring to get an opportunity like this to heat up tensions between Russia and the United States. These guys operate like a well oiled machine, as soon as any opportunity arises (abby's crimea statements for example) they jump the fuck in and start pumping their talking points and floating suspicion

the incestioual relationship between DC think tanks comprised of Cold Warriors and outlets like CNN and Fox News is absolutely disgusting, but the symbiotic relationship between them is how they survive. Go check out the writing of the Foreign Policy Initiative for example, probably the most persistent 'russia is evil' think-tank in DC

[Guest Roksen Creek]

 

 

 

 

Some chatter that CNN (and other outlets, doubtless) have been running live footage that is seriously graphic, I guess that's me not watching any news for the next 24 hours then.

 

Oh, and seeing a picture of a pile of near-pristine passports gathered together? Fuck this planet, put me on the next flight to Mars.

 

When Korean Airlines 007 was shot down in 1983 there was a photo of all of the shoes that washed up onshore. Some heavy shit.

 

yeah this is fucked.. also too coincidental about a MISSING (wtf) Malaysian Airlines flight, and then months later, a SHOT DOWN Malaysian Airlines flight. This is insane.

 

Tragic coincidence. I'm curious what other airliners are flying over that region - it's not an atypical route. Lot of Dutch nationals apparently on board.

 

 

Ukraine says it was the rebels.

 

The rebels say it was Ukraine.

 

Ukraine has more to gain from this than the rebels.

 

The rebels aren't proven to have the technology capable to do this.

 

 

 

I'm not sure who did this, but it's bad.

 

The rebels aren't proven, but an AP reporter did say that he had seen a SAM system in Eastern Ukraine earlier this week.

 

 

 

An Associated Press reporter on Thursday saw seven rebel-owned tanks parked at a gas station outside the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne. In the town, he also observed a Buk missile system, which can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).[/size]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-air-force-jet-downed-russian-missile-24598894

 

Seeing as Russia has been supporting, if not providing the rebels in this area, it makes sense as a way for Russia to "intervene and help" Ukraine against the growing rebel power, thereby expanding their power into Crimea as they've been wanting to do.

It is not out of the realm of possibility the Russian speaking/pro-Russian rebels did it. Regarding the Buk missile systems: if it was indeed used it was probably Ukrainian military equipment captured earlier during the insurgency by the insurgents. These systems are setup at Ukrainian airbases, including ones captured recently. Rebels also have small numbers of tanks, armored vehicles, and artillery. Much of it was captured.

 

Typical shoulder launched or smaller vehicle launch systems the insurgents "acquired" via smuggling/blackmarket/etc. are not high altitude units. That Malaysian aircraft would of been at 40,000 ft. The Ukrainian and helicopters planes shot down during the conflict have been likely flying a lot lower, and one of the many planes destroyed was a large transporter.

 

There's no hard evidence yet it was shot down, let alone by the insurgents. It could of been a Ukrainian or Russian operated SAM, a Russian or Ukrainian jet fighter. This war is literally being fought over cities and towns while the regions civilians try to live normally. We're not even talking about a fully-fledged war zone as all of this heavy (though sporadic) fighting is occurring.

So if pro-russian rebels did this, why is Russia still supporting them politically even?

If they are committing such crimes as shooting down civilian claims, why isn't the Russian government distancing themselves from these rebels instead of saying "we will protect the interests of Russian speaking ukrainian people" etc?

Whoa, that's a stretch to say they purposely shot this down.

I wasn't trying to suggest this.

 

But you don't accidentally shoot down a plane that is flying at 40,000 feet, or 33,000 feet or whatever. They (whoever that is) purposely shot down a plane without verifying what it might be, negligently, in that it was a plane flying a common civilian airliner flightpath at a common altitude for said civilian aircraft. That's all I meant.

 

All sources suggest there is no way for the so called "rebels" to get their hands on the technology required to shoot down planes at this altitude.

What sources? They have the technology, they've bragged about it, and intelligence has seen them with it. Do you mean there is no way they could get the technology without Russian help? In which case, that's true.

[Hugh Mughnus]

Yes there is no way they could get it without Russian help, that is what I meant.

 

However Russia keeps claiming they are not providing the rebels with any weapons etc.

just keep in mind also that there have been thousands of Washington DC cold warriors

 

Same with moscow.

 

Plenty there too

[awepittance]

Yes there is no way they could get it without Russian help, that is what I meant.

 

 

sounds like the same Bullshitty rhetoric as saying that there is no way the Anthrax attacks could have happened without outside help, Al Qaeda didn't have the technology or the means so it must be Saddam right? Sense the bullshit creeping in by the minute.

Yes there is no way they could get it without Russian help, that is what I meant.

 

However Russia keeps claiming they are not providing the rebels with any weapons etc.

just keep in mind also that there have been thousands of Washington DC cold warriors

 

Same with moscow.

 

Plenty there too

yeah i don't speak Russian or keep track of Russian cold warriors, but I keep a close eye on the people who got us into Iraq who are mostly comprised of Reagan era cold-warriors and they will jump into any opening they see to bludgeon Russia. I'm not saying that Russia is good, i'm just stating how this propaganda plays out even if it's based on some truth or none at all

[Hugh Mughnus]

What?

 

Are you somehow claiming that there isn't a Russia full of warhungry cold war era militants just like the US?

 

Russia is just a bunch of peaceful hippies or something?

 

wtf?

Go back to RT, you're reading between lines that don't exist man.

 

I take no particular political side, they're all scum.

[Audioblysk]

I want a thread entitled- 'The Fluorescent Grey Zone - With John Ehrlichman' where we can just hear Mr. Ehrlichmans opinions on topics.

 

Just sayin'. I look forward to when you jump in on these things

 

(now back to a tragedy)

[awepittance]

What?

 

Are you somehow claiming that there isn't a Russia full of warhungry cold war era militants just like the US?

 

Russia is just a bunch of peaceful hippies or something?

you missed my point entirely. Just watch out for what you believe on the mainstream media and on RT as well revolving around the Malaysian plane crash and keep in mind that regardless of the event there are people with itchy trigger fingers just waiting in the wings of DC to re-ignite a new cold war.

[Hugh Mughnus]

 

What?

 

Are you somehow claiming that there isn't a Russia full of warhungry cold war era militants just like the US?

 

Russia is just a bunch of peaceful hippies or something?

you missed my point entirely. Just watch out for what you believe on the mainstream media and on RT as well revolving around the Malaysian plane crash

 

Good job editing your post.

 

That means something completely different now that you have edited it. Thank you.

 

Less inflammatory now.

 

Not being sarcastic btw.

[awepittance]

for a more in depth analysis about what i'm talking about see:

 

http://www.mediaroots.org/media-roots-radio-dc-think-tanks-create-new-cold-war-tipping-point/ (full transcript)

https://soundcloud.com/media-roots/media-roots-radio-neocon-timeline-1950-2014

 

 

While today’s events continue to unfold and intensify involving the US, Russia and Ukraine, the perfect climate is being created for a lot of the old think-tank and neoconservative faces to come out of hiding to stir up the impending war fervor. While many of these old faces no longer have credibility among the informed American public, many of the new faces do because they haven’t been outed as neoconservatives and weren’t directly associated with any major scandals like the key players (Kristol, Perle) during the Iraq war.

[Hugh Mughnus]

And agreed, I'm very cautious in what I believe especially when it comes to the media. It's all slanted, no matter what the source, in my opinion. I don't think there's an unbiased media outlet anywhere in the world.

[awepittance]

agreed, but maybe not for the same reasoning behind your statement. The problem with American propaganda is that it's just too fucking good, you can easily puncture holes in the big ones like CNN, Fox News, MSNBC but when it comes to the seedlings of the same propaganda they spread through more 'hip' outlets like Buzzfeed, Raw Story, Slate, Vice, DailyBeast, DailyBanter. Once they spread to those it's very difficult to easily identify them and convince others of it's propagandistic nature

[ghsotword]

 

So if pro-russian rebels did this, why is Russia still supporting them politically even?

If they are committing such crimes as shooting down civilian claims, why isn't the Russian government distancing themselves from these rebels instead of saying "we will protect the interests of Russian speaking ukrainian people" etc?

probably because it was done by Russians (Russian army undercover in Ukraine), not Russian speaking Ukrainian people

[Guest Roksen Creek]

I guess the rebels could have also stolen the missiles from Ukraine, thinking about it. Not sure how plausible that would be?

 

They would need some skilled/trained operators though. They couldn't just operate them without training from...someone

 

Obviously this is all under the assumption that the rebels actually did it

[awepittance]

glad to know we have educated experts from the Project For a New American Century and the W administration explaining to us what happened with the Malaysian plane. He appears on fox news in 13 minutes to give us the real scoop

https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/489903172056412160