Jump to content
IGNORED

Malaysian airliner shot down, 295 dead


Guest jasondonervan

Recommended Posts

also fyi, this media outlet called 'Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty' is a US congress funded (and formerly CIA funded) US media outlet. You started seeing their logo frequently in the midst of the original Crimea coverage, and you might start seeing it again (like when Vice runs broll they sometimes use RFE footage)

w175.gif

not surprisingly many of the early reports on the Malaysian plane crash came from them
http://www.rferl.org/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 151
  • Created
  • Last Reply

 

But you don't accidentally shoot down a plane that is flying at 40,000 feet, or 33,000 feet or whatever. They (whoever that is) purposely shot down a plane without verifying what it might be, negligently, in that it was a plane flying a common civilian airliner flightpath at a common altitude for said civilian aircraft. That's all I meant.

 

All sources suggest there is no way for the so called "rebels" to get their hands on the technology required to shoot down planes at this altitude.

 

 

Gotcha the "accident" clarification. I don't condone them shooting down non-attack aircraft (whereas in combat, shooting down attack helicopters and jets is fair game) I just think it's possible they thought, irresponsibly, that it was a Ukrainian military transporter.

 

The insurgents are hodge-podge of forces, including militias and volunteers from outside of that region, including Russian military veterans and Chechens and Cossacks. It's akin to the diverse and often rival forces that form the Syrian insurgency. Dive into any history of post-Soviet conflicts and it's staggering how often people switch sides, defect or bounce between being "legitimate" government military and police forces to "militias" and "insurgents." I'm tempted to even compare it to perpetual in-fighting and alliance switching in fiction like Game of Thrones. Ukrainian militias are forming as well, and the actual military has had problems with morale (especially during the Crimean incident) and logistics.

 

There's a good possibility that a SAM system like the equipment was supplied or captured. Remember a lot of CIS states have Soviet equipment like the BUK system in storage, and with Ukraine this is especially the case. Assuming it was a missile system, whether it was a captured system or supplied by proxy is the question.

also fyi, this media outlet called 'Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty' is a US congress funded (and formerly CIA funded) US media outlet. You started seeing their logo frequently in the midst of the original Crimea coverage, and you might start seeing it again (like when Vice runs broll they sometimes use RFE footage)

 

w175.gif

 

not surprisingly many of the early reports on the Malaysian plane crash came from them

http://www.rferl.org/

 

 

 

Yeah, "small government"/"tea party" posterboy Ted Cruz was interviewing with them today. :dry:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fox News commentator just said 'you better believe the Russian separatists are moving their missile barrages into barns and hiding them away so as to be hidden from internal weapons inspectors'

I guess these people still think trotting out 2003 era Iraq war propaganda still works (mobile weapons labs on rails so Saddam could avoid UN inspections), and unfortunately they're probably right

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fox News host just asked 'IF the Russian separatists did this and Putin gave them the keys to this whole thing, doesn't the world need to come hard down on Putin right now?' the question almost seems ridiculous by tone of how he's asking it, almost a rhetorical question

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the rebels could have also stolen the missiles from Ukraine, thinking about it. Not sure how plausible that would be?

 

Very. Remember, entire naval and air force bases on Crimea were essentially handed over. The poor SOB Ukrainian forces didn't want fire upon the Russian spec op and militia forces nor surrender. So they literally waited until a retreat was cleared. They could literally only take what they could carry. I have no idea (and likewise, there's no way NATO nor Ukraine will disclose where their equipment is deployed) what was at the air bases in East Ukraine, but missile defense systems are a staple at such bases. If pro-Russian insurgents took over bases as Ukrainian forces fled or deserted, everything there is free game. Even if equipment was sabotaged or abadoned, parts and technical expertise could of came over via mercenary or "volunteers" from across the border. Lot of these irregular forces are well-trained and experienced veterans.

 

In other words, loose equipment and motivated proxy forces are existing factors in this conflict. The Kremlin doesn't have to directly supply or direct much. They just focus on their own military exercises to flex their muscle, as has NATO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fox News commentator just said 'you better believe the Russian separatists are moving their missile barrages into barns and hiding them away so as to be hidden from internal weapons inspectors'

 

I guess these people still think trotting out 2003 era Iraq war propaganda still works (mobile weapons labs on rails so Saddam could avoid UN inspections), and unfortunately they're probably right

 

allegedly a BUK thing leaving the area, i wouldn't know.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU5NSSzYygk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dutch media is actively trying to defuse the events saying things like it's only confirmed that it crashed, possibly shot. Even though Biden already said it was shot. But hey, what are the Netherlands going to do? Send their army to Russia/Ukraine? The only thing which can be done, is making sure the investigation of what actually happened will be exhaustive. And there's such a thing called " international court" which might help in case that might achieve something (=symbolic).

 

I'm more worried about the current Israeli/Palestine situation, tbh. I think Putin has too much to lose by not cooperating with the investigations. But we'll see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm gonna try my best to ignore what the mainstream corporate news outlets are saying, much less talk show pundits. All I care about are facts. But I think it's still too early to have any closure.

It was a century ago when WWI started. And with all the shit we've seen unfold this year thus far...I dunno. If I'm not paranoid, I'm certainly nervous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to think that Boeing was shot by our experts (and not by separatist, cause they are seem to be just dummy idiots).

There was information about Ukrainian air force IL76 cargo that was supposed to fly in this direction to deliver stuff for blocked ukrainian units but then this flight was canceled.

Looks like our experts with their BUK complex was tricked.

 

Have to say that whole this incident is terrible tragedy and i'm really sorry about this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What would have happened is that Ukrainian troops just had anti aircraft missile systems delivered to where they are staging their citizen brigade slaughter operations in eastern ukraine and someone saw a plane, radioed a commander saying it was a russian jet, it may have even gone up as far as the Ukranian defence minster (who is a known dick and dum dum), and so within the matter of less than five minutes from spotting the jet, in all the excitement the missile firing was approved, and we have no more malaysian airliner.

 

There is no way that russia would have done this, they have nothing to gain by it. They've already been keeping to a very careful and diplomatic strategy on Ukraine, despite the outrages regularly occurring there ever since the ultra right wing US backed junta took over a formed the coup government (the elections mean nothing given that the new president instead of being a peace maker uses foreign mercenaries and milltia groups from the west of ukraine to murder his own people and even shell russia (the second thing they deny, but the exploded house and dead person within the borders of russia are hard to despute)).

 

If america supports the right to self determination and democracy it would have let the eastern Ukrainian states break away from the Ukraine. The whole thing is part of the plan to isolate russia under banner of a pointless 'new cold war' that vampires like Sen. Mccain and others have been spewing about off their talking points list for the past year or so.

 

--

 

The other possibility is that israel did this through surrogates, to distract the western media from their ground offensive, which will not be very pleasant for the gazans and so probably spark further protests in even greater numbers in more places in the west. This is only a slight possibility and i prefer my first hypothesis, because israel seems not to give a fuck what anyone thinks as it's leaders live in a bubble surrounded by their own hard worn propaganda. The inappropriate stuff they regularly come out with or try to justify is breathtaking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just imagine if the airplane had been a Western civilian one, and the shooting was/is a Russian action.

 

Because it's a Malaysian one, all that will happen is some more sanctions, which Putin couldn't give a less of a shit about. It's only the Russian citizens/oligarchs who will feel it.

 

I'm not necessarily advocating any more drastic response than that, there's no reason to spark more tension in the region and between Nato and Russia (we all know what the outcome of that would be). But it's becoming more and more important that Europe becomes independent from Gazprom and Russian natural gas. I don't want this Putin regime to be in my interest sphere.

 

This is all very hypothetical, but how can you not be slightly suspicious of Russia at this point?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't agree with you, delet... Cause I see our bastards from inside. And I see that Putin's regime got really insane.

 

Check our recent laws for example

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't agree with you, delet... Cause I see our bastards from inside. And I see that Putin's regime got really insane.

 

Check our recent laws for example

 

You can't invalidate anything i said, if you were russian you wouldn't want to see fellow russians in the east mown down and blown up, you would think. There's low level and high level corruption everywhere on the planet. In the big picture, putin has successfully navigated your country away from the economic ruin of being picked apart western corporations and avaricious local oligarchs both of whom were being helped by onerous international loan conditions and dodgy trade deals. It's exactly his strong leadership that has been the seawall upon which the swell of phoney foreign money led opposition has broken against, saving you from internal division and political chaos. I'm sure you could point to things here and there which would look marginally unsavoury for people working in government all over russian, but the big picture is that putin has been a force for rationality and an important safe harbour in these stormy times for many countries that have previously suffered under the yoke of american aggression, especially latin america. It was with his help that the BRICS group of nations was brought together, which now is forming an economic coalition that will challenge the dollar hegemony, freeing the countries from only being able to go to the IMF when in economic strife, giving everyone else options.

 

and on and on and on.

 

The US fears this and this is why it is acting out in the Ukraine, where it openly admits that it has spent billions over the past few years funding opposition to russian leaning politicians there. It is a now or never thing for the US in the last gasps of it's empire, a do or die roll of the dice. Of course there is another option, just be fucking nice for once.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other possibility is that israel did this through surrogates, to distract the western media from their ground offensive, which will not be very pleasant for the gazans and so probably spark further protests in even greater numbers in more places in the west. This is only a slight possibility and i prefer my first hypothesis, because israel seems not to give a fuck what anyone thinks as it's leaders live in a bubble surrounded by their own hard worn propaganda. The inappropriate stuff they regularly come out with or try to justify is breathtaking.

i spend a lot of time on soc networks cos i'm interested in the flow of information and how its processed online (basically my thesis topic) but you really take the cake of the most fucked up delusional idiot i've ever met online, i'd even put awepittance behind you. it really boggles my mind how joyrex though it's a good idea to put you in charge of moderation. i mean i can't even imagine you perform basic, every day tasks properly like putting socks, i mean they could be poisoned with psychotropic agents by mossad to sway public opinion, so why not put some nylons on bare feet and only then wear socks, right delet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't believe people are already buying into the "official story" this much.

 

On Reddit there are 3000 upvotes on comments calling Putin a psychopath, etc.

 

 

But I have to say... Why the fuck would Russia shoot down this plane? What interest could they possibly have in doing that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Russia was content with the situation prior to this. They secured their interests and had nothing else they needed to do. Why in the flying fuck would they commit an act of completely senseless violence with absolutely zero strategic importance and with the only outcome being a huge risk of severe punishment and loss of standing in the international community and in the eyes of the average person who either was passive or only mildly interested in the situation?

 

And, then, how could it possibly be that 3000 upvotes instantly show that public opinion has absolutely zero skepticism about this event which is rather clearly worthy of skepticism.

 

Eugene, I assume you know full well about us subversions in other countries throughout history for the benefit of local powers and corporate interests. I must question why you are so eager to discredit the uncontroversial nature of this UNcontroversial skepticism.

 

As we know, political groups and interests have been clearly shown to have access to WIDESPREAD propaganda techniques on social networks, your Israel being chief example, along with China as well. So, when you say your chief interest is in social network flows while also calling delet a "paranoid" you mark yourself as a fraud. These are simple, uncontroversial facts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the more likely hand, Russia probably made a mistake? I don't know how you fuck this up though when it takes ten people and very clear intent to decide to blow a plane that high out of the sky,mand anyone operating the gun would know what type of plane they were shooting sown.

 

But if so, it would still be a major accident. Its not as if Putin or Russia would have wanted this...

 

Fuck, I have to go to work but I want to keep reading about this shite. They play CNN on the tvs where I work and they are calling the perps "terrorists" for some reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't believe people are already buying into the "official story" this much.

 

On Reddit there are 3000 upvotes on comments calling Putin a psychopath, etc.

 

 

But I have to say... Why the fuck would Russia shoot down this plane? What interest could they possibly have in doing that?

 

I don't think they did. I think if anything it was either the rebels using Russian supplied weapons (still making Russia partially responsible) or the Ukraine (who has lots to gain as a result of this).

 

Now whether it was intentional or accidental is a whole other story. But I don't think Russia would have shot this plane down. They have the technology and wherewithal to have known it was a civilian plane and wouldn't have just haphazardly do this.

 

Unless they are legitimately crazy and want a war. Which I doubt lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The other possibility is that israel did this through surrogates, to distract the western media from their ground offensive, which will not be very pleasant for the gazans and so probably spark further protests in even greater numbers in more places in the west. This is only a slight possibility and i prefer my first hypothesis, because israel seems not to give a fuck what anyone thinks as it's leaders live in a bubble surrounded by their own hard worn propaganda. The inappropriate stuff they regularly come out with or try to justify is breathtaking.

i spend a lot of time on soc networks cos i'm interested in the flow of information and how its processed online (basically my thesis topic) but you really take the cake of the most fucked up delusional idiot i've ever met online, i'd even put awepittance behind you. it really boggles my mind how joyrex though it's a good idea to put you in charge of moderation. i mean i can't even imagine you perform basic, every day tasks properly like putting socks, i mean they could be poisoned with psychotropic agents by mossad to sway public opinion, so why not put some nylons on bare feet and only then wear socks, right delet?

 

DDMBW.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eugene, I assume you know full well about us subversions in other countries throughout history for the benefit of local powers and corporate interests. I must question why you are so eager to discredit the uncontroversial nature of this UNcontroversial skepticism.

 

As we know, political groups and interests have been clearly shown to have access to WIDESPREAD propaganda techniques on social networks, your Israel being chief example, along with China as well. So, when you say your chief interest is in social network flows while also calling delet a "paranoid" you mark yourself as a fraud. These are simple, uncontroversial facts.

because starting off from the very unlikely scenarios without any semblance of evidence just doesn't make sense.

 

i don't understand what your second point has to do with that event, so there's an open israeli program that pays a couple of hundred of students to argue with people on the internet regarding israeli-palestinain conflict, what does it prove exactly?

but delete is paranoid, for example he thinks that fluoride in water is a health hazaard without any sense of irony, just ask him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.