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Can't be influential without spawning copycats?


Guest skibby

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Has anyone else notice the trend where in one breath, reviewers and 'celebrities with opinions' both ridicule Aphex Twin's copycats, while praising Mr. James for being influential?

 

And why don't they seem to catch themselves doing that? Are they literally all stupid or are they reading some sort of script?

 

What's the harm in people repeating things that are worth parroting? That's what DNA does init.

 

(edit, theres very few who are anywhere close to being aphex copycats anyway.)

Edited by skibby
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It's all in being first. There can only be one Aphex Twin because Aphex Twin created/popularized his own style. Also with Autechre and similar people.

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aphex is my favourite living musician, lets sort that. however, there's very few intervals or rhythms in there that are not present in other music. but as a whole of course there is a signature sound.

 

to say that aphex leads the way is accurate, but to burn the bridge behind him is just stupid, for lack of a better way to express it.

 

its all a code, a language. i mean what im saying is pretty much unsaid before on this forum (citation needed) but im using english words that i am forced to borrow otherwise nobody would understand it.

 

so for people to be influenced by good ideas and not implement them if they are useful is fucking retarded.

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I'd agree with this completely. If you consider yourself to still be learning the craft, than similar to when studying fine art (as I did) you will learn so much more from studying and imitating the greats. It's only temporary though. If you keep working at it, it's almost impossible for your own unique voice not to eventually shine through.

Edited by escmode
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Good artists copy, great artists steal. Mix and match, and develop your own taste. You can see this in what James does too, being influenced by Brian Eno and Larry Heard amongst others. He always puts his own spin on it, though.

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.... being influenced by Brian Eno and Larry Heard amongst others.

The Larry Heard tribute track he did is one of my favs... too short though.

Edited by escmode
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see, I havent even heard of Larry Heard. in fact, I never heard Drexciya until last year and when I did I thought they ripped off Aphex so hard, until I looked at the year.

 

its great to praise Aphex for his style, or even for carrying a torch that already existed before him.

 

but hasn't anyone noticed a whole lot of bashing going on against the so called Aphex Twin imitators? It's really ugly that people raise him up and beat down others as if they are some sort of beard of termites.

 

I am fine with more music sounding like Aphex, it might make the grocery store less apt to give me a panic attack.

Edited by skibby
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And why don't they seem to catch themselves doing that? Are they literally all stupid or are they reading some sort of script?

There's definitely some kind of script thing going on. Otherwise all of these critics wouldn't be "influencing" each other and harping each other's rhetoric.

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Indeed, Aphex's sound, or definitely traces of it can be found in records that are older, and as time passed he shaped that characteristic sound into something unique. As mentioned above and in other threads, I see it as some sort of language. Richard, Tom and all these guys in Rephlex, can talk a similar language or dialects of it. Unreleased tracks by Squarepusher like the famous acid one in that Rome 2002 Rephlex video, were mistaked by a lot of people here as an AFX track, so sometimes its difficult to draw the line even between 2 pioneers like Richard and Tom. Im talking about this one:

 

 

EVERYONE assumed this was Aphex Twin, and then years later Tom reveals it's just an unreleased tune by him. It would be cool to see a completely anonymous record released by all these guys and try to figure out who is who. Anyway, as I was saying, it has become some sort of language and few can get away with it. All these guys, Wisp, EOD, Monolith, Steinvord... can do it, but then there's the endless list of guys that just don't have that special talent to come up with tracks that feel natural. Influenced or not, these guys can come up with tracks that sound natural, because they got that nice talent for it. As also mentioned in another thread, every year it gets harder and harder to enter into completely new territory, or new enough that it's considered groundbreaking. All these possible combinations to explore keep getting more and more thin, it gets shrinking. I sometimes ask myself what Richard would be doing had he been born in early to mid 90's, were as a teen you probably already had internet and access to worldwide music, and you would have started with a computer like probably all the youngest Rephlex guys did or about any guy that's grown up with the internet. Everyone has got access to incredible music software for free these days, entire studios in a computer. I wonder to what extent Richard would have gotten infuenced by contemporary music, if he would be into dubstep and whatnot. Richard admited he copied techniques from jungle producers back in the day, nicked some of their stuff, then implemented it into his music and no one would ever know, because there was no internet and everyone was in complete isolation, it was just local, small scenes. We'll never know how it would have went. Maybe he would have been a good producer, an excellent one, but would have he reached legendary status? Had he been born in early to mid 90's, would his music be as groundbreaking by today's standards?

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Hmm, so if I put it slightly simplified how would RDJ be influenced by the acts he has influenced? Quite funny circle ‘cause you could also ask how these other artists would sound. But yes I got it what you tried to say. There’s no doubt that Aphex has played a big part in electronic music and of course been influential to loads of artists, showed some new directions you might say. So the current style palette would be at least slightly different from what it is now. What that would exactly be is quite impossible to say. Hell, even so ‘’main stream’’ artist like Skrillex is fan of Aphex so his influence goes into territories which aren’t necessarily the most obvious ones (eh, Radiohead). Would it even be the electronic field where he would go in the first place. Maybe he would go to modern classical and become a conductor for some symphony orchestra, who knows. Have there been any new and fresh styles of music in the past two decades? I really can’t tell since I don’t really follow such things. Maybe he would be influenced by those or then just choose the jungle scene with its progenies and current acts as he did back in the days.

 

When it comes to ‘’copycats’’ I’m also quite pissed of the negative tone of the word. If I read in a review etc. with the line ‘’Aphex copycat’’ for me it is a recommendation to check it out. I just happen to love that kind of stuff and can’t get enough of it. So they have been influenced by the Aphex stuff but as it has been said also Richard the Great has nicked some ideas from others. It’s just natural that one influences the other who takes some elements from the stuff he likes. Otherwise the freshest thing you heard was two wooden sticks hit together. All this is of course purely IMO.

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Strongly agree with anyone who has mentioned anything related to modern art. Look at the early works of people like pollock or lichtenstein, fraught with influences of Picasso. Picasso had a massive massive influence on the on the art world. everyone was copying it

 

rdj deserves a magnitude of credit for the sound he has created throughout his career but what is the point in relying on one man to bring his original sounds to the masses especially if so many people enjoy it? it becomes a prototype, it is an archetype for others to take their own bits and bobs from and amalgamate it into to their own interpretation. It's just human nature. How would techno of become a form in itself without people getting influenced by each other? Jungle? would never of taken off if people didnt copy each other.

 

I'm not a fan of the stigma that goes along with attempting an rdj take on a piece of music, it will never be the same, it will be its own thing, it may stink of rdj but thats just the legacy of rdj , but it could be really good and that is all that matters i think

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It's pretty difficult to avoid being influenced by artists you like, and by the tools you use to do your job. Both encourage a certain way of approaching things. I think probably the biggest influence on techno was people like Ralph Dyck, Kakehashi, Nakamura, Matsuoka, Oue and Hoshiai.

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Has anyone else notice the trend where in one breath, reviewers and 'celebrities with opinions' both ridicule Aphex Twin's copycats, while praising Mr. James for being influential?

 

And why don't they seem to catch themselves doing that? Are they literally all stupid or are they reading some sort of script?

 

Some years ago a lightbulb went on over my head when I realized that the more assuredly people pass judgments on others, the more they're telling you about themselves.

 

As far as art critics are concerned, relatively few of them have ever put up works of their own ('I don't want to compromise my critical distance from the work I review,' being the most amusing excuse I have heard so far). This was something I respected about Roger Ebert - he's one of the very few film critics to have ever worked in film production, and although the few films he was involved with are pretty direit gave him a much deeper insight into the construction of a film.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think real artists are inspired by themselves exclusively and copycats are inspired by other artists. Sometimes, you start out as a copycat and evolve into an artist because you have found your own voice over time. Sometimes, you start out as an artist and evolve into a copycat because you have no original inspiration left.

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He's obviously influenced heavily by so many people, whole genres even, that he is a copycat but yeh totes obvious when it's afx twinz behind the knobs as he certainly has his own take on things that absolutely no one else can forge, only imitate.

 

 

Personally I wouldn't bother ever trying to make a tune that was going for his vibe what's the point m8.

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I think he had a lot of contemporaries who also borrow from the same influences. 80/90's electro is still having massive influence over techno, probably more then rdj will ever have imo. Labels like weme are putting out stunning new music constantly, many of the artists probably have learnt from afxs music but they dont have the same focus. They all achieve different things with their music.

 

 

I can only imagine the thrill it would have been for rephlex to put out the translusion/drexciya stuff. They are obviously a huge influence on afx. Criminally underrated, making non dancefloor techno before most.

 

In saying this afx has many copy cats. The big trend at the moment is the tuss-y funky synth stuff. sounds like old boogie in 2014. Its a good sound but i dont listen to anyone else because syro + tuss is the best. The room for development is hardly there whereas within other areas of techno, jungle and faster almost breakcore, i feel like there is plenty of room for growth and there are many labels pushing some great new artists

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      Recognition of your influence by names more famous than you (such as Radiohead, Madonna or Björk) is it reassuring or annoying?
       
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      This song is what comes closest to a BO signed Aphex Twin. How come you never really composed for the cinema?
       
      It has always been my ambition. It has been painful and depressing to admit it, but I can not keep a deadline. And in the cinema, it's vital. If I'm told, "You're ten years old to finish the orchestration," I'm sure you can not do it. I am unable to work under duress. So, I have no choice: for me to compose a soundtrack, I will also have to make the film. It will inevitably be a day.
       
      Your new album, Drukqs, has arrived fairly quickly. Who imposed you, this time, a deadline?
       
      My carelessness. I forgot on a plane in Japan, the MP3 player on which I had recorded three hundred of my songs. No master was lost, but I suddenly panicked: if these new songs were found on the Net, I lost my only wins, bread for ten years to come. That's why Drukqs came out in haste. Panic-stricken, I wanted to release everything in the form of a box of ten CDs, but I'm too lazy. And finally, it was not so bad, thing. it forced me to listen to all my tapes, to sort them out. These pieces should never have been together, but I find they work well together, in a haphazard, incoherent way. An old-fashioned album, with an immutable order, it can not exist anymore. everyone to do their own tracklisting, to sort through the thirty pieces of the album. That's why we created the MP3. Drukqs is meant to be turned upside down. Curiously, it is from far away the album that asked me the most time, concentration. The simplest pieces are the ones that asked me the most work: I had to purify, without end, remove the notes one after the other. This meticulousness surprised me myself.
       
      This is the big difference with your previous albums: we feel a real reflection, we can not find the instinct.
       
      Only two titles are based on instinct, the other twenty-eight have been elaborated, refined, sometimes over two years. The risk is that I never finish a piece: it is always at hand, ready to suffer the effects of my last fad in date. I want to push them further, to see how far they can be deformed without tearing. Moreover, it is not excluded that I completely remix Drukqs to bring out in ten years. I like Pierre Boulez's way of constantly coming back to his first songs. Curiously, I never feel claustrophobia when I am locked in my studio. I'm good at it, in my natural environment. I sometimes stay locked up for weeks at home, without the slightest idea of ​​what's going on outside. I do not care, I do not belong to this world anymore, I'm happy in mine. My house is really a bunker, I have enough to survive, all my toys.
       
      And especially your label, Rephlex.
      That's right, we can think of it as a toy. A toy that, I knew from the beginning, was not going to choose the ease but annoy people. It was a bit of a whim: get out the records I love, be it hip-hop, techno or more demanding music. My pride is that the label has existed for almost ten years and has remained true to its philosophy. On this label, I can go out under a pseudo remixes of old acid tricks of ten years ago and manage to penetrate the Top 5o, it is miraculous. I'm seriously thinking of releasing the next Aphex Twin on Rephlex, without any constraints.
       
      On the new album, you can feel the clear influence of composers like Debussy or especially Satie. Is this a way that you plan to explore further in the future?
       
      I collect, methodically, all of Satie's piano recordings. I listen to it constantly. I would have loved to hear him compose a drum'n'bass song, he would have been the providential man. For years, I knew I would come to the classic. This music waited for me, patiently, sure that I would get tired of the dance. And the more I have to find exciting maxi (I have to go through a thousand shits in review to find something new), the more I turn to the classic. It's far more rewarding.
       
      Your music has always evoked for me a very strong image: that of a child prisoner of an adult body.
       
      That's exactly why I love Satie so much for this childish, fragile side. I like this way of expressing myself while thinking in a complex way. There is no flamboyance, no demonstration, no show. A child in an adult body, yes, it's all me, that. I hope the adult will never choke him. To grow is to deny oneself, to limit oneself, to play a role. I'm often asked, angry, "But when will you finally grow up?" And me, secretly, I answer that I hope never to grow up.
       
    • By Touched Music
      Artist : Karsten Pflum
      Title: Love Canticles
      Label: Touched Music
      Cat no: TM37
      Format: CD/Digital
      Country: U.K.
      Artwork: Hagar Faibish
      Style: IDM/Electronica
      Release Date Oct 24th Nov 2017
       
      It's hard not to be biased when you get to listen to artists that you know and love but there's a reason you love them and this only adds fuel to the fire. Hot on the heels of the recent release from 'Ariande's Labyrinth', comes an offering from one of Touched Music's favorite artists, Karsten Pflum.
      'Love Canticles' is a solid collection of squelch, rattle and drop - guaranteed to please our followers and make your feet tap. Kicking off with a dissonance that plays with your expectations of melody, the whole thing is solidified with a strong mix of conventional and broken rhythms.
      There are things you can't escape, notably the ethereal quality and a definite analogue feel that could easily be mistaken as Cornish in origin. Don't let this fool you however, this is the best of Danish through and through, although the keen- eared amongst you will hear the cat escaping the bag.
      Other nice touches include a peppering of vocoder, robotically enhancing certain tracks that already felt mechanical and industrious.
      Technical precision marks many of the tracks, 'I Am Ice' being a perfect example with ambience and crisp sounds aplenty, living up to its name. Not being satisfied with throwing a well-styled reworking into the mix to finish off the release, much- loved UK producer Ochre steps up and has offered his mastering & remixing skills to polish this great album. They're welcome bonuses that add to the already- delightful experience.
      Ochre's not the only remixer here, with contributions from Isan (Morr Music) & Humanoid (Aka Brain Dougans - One Half Of The Future Sound Of London) in the final stretch, the change is noticeable but well within the bounds of what Pflum has set out to do.
      All in all this is a spacious & thoughtful piece of work that carries on Karsten Pflum's tradition of style melding and refusing to sit in one box. It's great to know he's not going anywhere soon and even better to have him on the Touched roster.
      Support Touched - Music for Macmillan Cancer Support and get your copy from the 24th


    • By BourbonSurf
      Set I played last year at rave on a farm in the Scottish Highlands. House/Braindancey. Stay tuned for the Colundi Cowbell Solo at the end.   Crazy Penis - There's A Better Place Axel Boman - Son of A Plumber Dave Monolith - FlenHix Soul Center - Boot Box Luke Vibert - Officer's Club Kornel Kovacs - Dance... While the Record Spins Liz Torres - Your Love is All I Need (Dub Mix) Claro Intelecto - Dependant Wav Fuzz - Neo's Jam Throwing Snow - Lumen Aphex Twin - Windowlicker (Acid Edit) Lusine - Eyes Give In Tim Wright - Section 7 Marc Houle - Undercover Lone - Vapour Trail Dapayk Solo - Tyffaniecell (Sutekh's "March of the Valkuries" Remix) Aleksi Perala - UK74R1512130 Cursor Miner - Mad Cow (Free Range Version)  

    • By MDF
      http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/CDs/176984/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&_ssn=danielaphex
       
      Got quite a range on there including many the folks on here will probably be interested in. 
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