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Did the "pay for the forum or get banned until you pay" remove some of your friends?


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Yeah, I'm concerned that new members would be discouraged from joining if there's a payment requirement. Particularly younger members. I think it should at least be possible to post a little without paying anything.

 

I'm not making a fuss about having to pay myself. I was already subscribing so I could make polls.

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I asked Papa about it since my friend Phoenix was having issues, and I had no idea about the new rules. All accounts are paid and apparently you end up in Limbo/"validating status" if you don't use your account for 180 days, and have to pay your way back into the party. No idea if I'll see my friend again. :cry: I will pay to keep using this forum as it's a platform to sell my music (and some of you are alright to hang out with I guess) but I understand people who don't, nothing against the forum personally but a lot of us have probably been part of several forums over the years without paying for them.

I went to check this, by creating a new account, and this does seem to be the case. Very unfortunate that this is now a pay-to-join site, if I ever get bumped to a restricted account because I haven't paid I'd probably leave the site permanently (not that I would want to at all). Honestly a sad moment.

 

 

WATMM has been paid accounts for all new and renewing members since August 2013 - I implemented it as VigLink (the main source of income to cover server and software costs) changed its payment model and as such the revenues went WAY down, and it wasn't fair that a small subset (~30 members) were regularly contributing to keep the forum going. Keep in mind I paid 100% of the costs (not to mention my time) from 1999-2005/6 ish, when somebody suggested I ask for/accept donations.

 

It also has had the side effect of keeping folks who enjoy causing trouble away, resulting in a less volatile and more friendly community for the most part.

 

Wait, seriously? New members cant join without paying now? When did that happen?

Since August 2013.

 

I think it was around the time of the AAA thread, perhaps? or something else as server-intensive

No, happened before the AAA event - nothing to do with it whatsoever.

 

Interesting. I just noticed that my paid subscription is now automatically renewing. I don't remember opting into such a system...

I have turned off all auto-renewing subscriptions some time ago - you can cancel your subscription via PayPal and it will update your account.

 

Nothing wrong with JR making bank from his creation, just that using 9/11 the AAA thread as pretext for increased military expenditure costs is perhaps a bit sneaky

I'm not "making bank" - as it stands now, with the paid accounts, donations (again, always the same few generous people, paying for those who haven't donated in a long time or never have donated), and VigLink revenue, we manage to consistently cover our hosting costs, and the costs of paying the software licenses for the forum.

 

I didn't announce anything at the time as I wanted to gauge reaction/see what happened, and I was pleased that hardly anybody has complained about it - the fact that here we are a year and then some later and it is finally being discussed is... interesting. I feel had I announced something formally, there would have been backlash from some and for sure from the detractors, as well folks who like to complain for the sake of it.

 

Should be noted that both Sean and Rob paid to set up their accounts (even though I was going to offer to set them up so they could the AAA).

 

Shortly after the change in new accounts was made, I made a change in our system to purge inactive accounts, that if after 180 days of inactivity (aka no posting), your account moves into a "Restricted" status, and if you were anything other than a Member, your account was changed to "Validating", where at that point you must choose at least a 3.00 annual subscription to regain posting privileges.

 

This was done to encourage folks who might have frequented the forum at one time, but hadn't posted in ages come back if they were willing to do so, and contribute if they had not previously. Anyone not willing to contribute can still read the forum, of course.

 

There are still quite a few accounts of active members who have either never purchased a subscription or donated or have not donated in some time - as the forum and site grow in the coming months (Downloads section, I'm looking at you), there will be a system put in place to convert these members over to a paid status, so everyone is on a level playing field. I don't think 3.00 annually is much to ask in return for a service being provided that many obviously see the value in, and willingly contribute much more, not to mention actively participating to enrich the forum with content and foster a community of like-minded people who share the same passions.

 

To be clear, not paying does not "ban" you from the site - you can still access it and read all the content as anyone else can - you cannot contribute/interact though.

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Thanks for clearing all that up.

 

Shortly after the change in new accounts was made, I made a change in our system to purge inactive accounts, that if after 180 days of inactivity (aka no posting), your account moves into a "Restricted" status, and if you were anything other than a Member, your account was changed to "Validating", where at that point you must choose at least a 3.00 annual subscription to regain posting privileges.

Does that mean that my account was moving to validation was by accident as I wasn't inactive?

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Thanks for clearing all that up.

 

Shortly after the change in new accounts was made, I made a change in our system to purge inactive accounts, that if after 180 days of inactivity (aka no posting), your account moves into a "Restricted" status, and if you were anything other than a Member, your account was changed to "Validating", where at that point you must choose at least a 3.00 annual subscription to regain posting privileges.

Does that mean that my account was moving to validation was by accident as I wasn't inactive?

 

Hmmm. I don't recall (forgive me, as I deal with account issues on an almost daily basis) exactly - all of this is automated, so I can't fathom why your account would do that if you were regularly posting...

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Guest skytree

I definitely know what it's like for people to expect everything digital to be free and the personal expense that can come with it. It did catch me a bit off guard at first, but mostly because I haven't been around for a while and spaced on it. All good though. Happy to pay the fee to be here personally. (:

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O dear....

 

No announcement with the idea to see what happens. Ueh, in the real world, when people are actually interested in people's opinions, they announce stuff. Newflash...

 

But of course, there are distractors and those who criticize for the sake of it. At least that's some kind of excuse, right? Not that it's valid or justifiable. It's Ok to make decisions how you run this place, but please do so in a transparent manner. So you've decided to go for payments, but you didn't have the balls to be upfront about it. Glad we got that out in the open.

 

Call me a distractor or criticaster for the sake of it. But not announcing something like this is in no way justifiable.

 

O gosh, it's suddenly getting chilly in here.

 

Edit: context- i'm still in the free zone and have paid in the distant past. Possibly ten years ago. Think of it what you like

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heh, it's very little money to contribute. That's what i think about it. People spend more money on a latté to go. We're all adults now, we realise that communities don't exist without some sort of social financing, the cake stand at the market for the local quilting club so that it can pay the rent on it's room in the local hall, the girl scouts and their biscuits. It's not like you're broke arse uni students, and even then, one beer down the pub would be more than your membership fee. The cover charge on the door of that half arsed gig that you're going to would be multiples of the fee as would be the price of the burger that you took a picture of for the post a picture of your burger thread. (hypothetical, as i don't remember a godel burger photo and the prior to examples were for uni students, which you're not).

 

seriously. ya big baby. heh [-;

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I'm torn. As I mentioned, I'm concerned that having a pay requirement to post at all would be bad for the community. And I also think it would have been nice to have an announcement, particularly for the automatic renewing system (not because I'm planning on letting my subscription expire, but just out of good form).

 

But on the other hand, whenever Joyrex makes any kind of change or announcement, there's a huge explosion of people crying and making hitler comparisons. If I put myself in 'rex's shoes, and try to contemplate making this announcement to the community, it's pretty unbearable.

 

So maybe the conclusion is that this isn't the ideal situation, but it's the situation we collectively deserve.

 

And to whatever extent the $3 requirement may discourage new members, 'rex has more than made up for it I'm sure with AAA and Caustic Window.

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Jeez, this site already costs me enough in purchases I keep finding out about on here!

/jk

 

 

 

 

I'll be purchasing a sub having read this thread

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took a few loads in the mouth and now i'm back again.

 

i understand your reasoning joyrex. it's just that i'm used so much to acquiring everything for free on the internet that it just struck me as surprising, is all.

 

it's a good filter for wannabe-trolls though.

 

too bad i don't mind paying 5 bux to get in and wreak havoc

KAW


KAW
KAW

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O dear....

 

No announcement with the idea to see what happens. Ueh, in the real world, when people are actually interested in people's opinions, they announce stuff. Newflash...

 

But of course, there are distractors and those who criticize for the sake of it. At least that's some kind of excuse, right? Not that it's valid or justifiable. It's Ok to make decisions how you run this place, but please do so in a transparent manner. So you've decided to go for payments, but you didn't have the balls to be upfront about it. Glad we got that out in the open.

 

Call me a distractor or criticaster for the sake of it. But not announcing something like this is in no way justifiable.

 

O gosh, it's suddenly getting chilly in here.

 

Edit: context- i'm still in the free zone and have paid in the distant past. Possibly ten years ago. Think of it what you like

As I mentioned (and you confirmed), had I made an announcement, there would have been most likely an (over)reaction to it, derailing any sort of positive movement out of it. I think I made the right call in handling it the way I did (I've learned a few things running this place for 15+ years).

 

Think of it this way - it's been in place since August 2013, more than a year now, and membership has not gone down at all. It took a year for someone to even make mention of it, and I have told several people when they had issues logging back in after an extended time period, and I think I got one, perhaps two people deciding it wasn't for them.

 

I'm torn. As I mentioned, I'm concerned that having a pay requirement to post at all would be bad for the community. And I also think it would have been nice to have an announcement, particularly for the automatic renewing system (not because I'm planning on letting my subscription expire, but just out of good form).

 

But on the other hand, whenever Joyrex makes any kind of change or announcement, there's a huge explosion of people crying and making hitler comparisons. If I put myself in 'rex's shoes, and try to contemplate making this announcement to the community, it's pretty unbearable.

 

So maybe the conclusion is that this isn't the ideal situation, but it's the situation we collectively deserve.

 

And to whatever extent the $3 requirement may discourage new members, 'rex has more than made up for it I'm sure with AAA and Caustic Window.

As mentioned, the automatic renewing system has been off (and you can cancel the subscription via PayPal to ensure you don't get automagically rebilled). If anything, it has been good for the community, as we have more new members than ever before, and it keep the folks who delight in derailing the forum away.

 

took a few loads in the mouth and now i'm back again.

 

i understand your reasoning joyrex. it's just that i'm used so much to acquiring everything for free on the internet that it just struck me as surprising, is all.

 

it's a good filter for wannabe-trolls though.

 

too bad i don't mind paying 5 bux to get in and wreak havoc

 

KAW

 

 

KAW

KAW

Having a paid membership does not exclude anyone from being banned, etc. Just saying :wink:

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Thanks for your answer. I hope it's clear I don't have any intention of complaining about some subscription fee, or whatever the payment-model is you envision. Seeing the way things have been developing (AAA, kickstarter, ... something imminent), I personally don't see an issue in your explorations in that department.

 

My only issue is with not being upfront about it. And I don't think complaining people or some shitface calling you Hitler justifies "silent" decisions with respect to things like this. Even if it takes a year for people starting to notice.

 

If you want payments, than lets do business. And if you want to do business, at least do it in an upfront manner. We're not doing anything illegal here, right? So lets do it in a way which actually says "this is legal!" and "I'm am Joyrex and I stand for my business, regardless of a couple of criticasters!", instead of the silent hush hush I'm afraid anyone will notice crap. That's not how I want to do business, regardless of the price.

 

Apparently I'm in the minority thinking this way, but to me this is actually important. This goes beyond the financials and is about trust and being a trustworthy party.

 

I hope these thoughts are not too "out there" for watmm. Sounding all capitalist and stuff.

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Jeez, this site already costs me enough in purchases I keep finding out about on here!

/jk

 

 

 

 

 

Heh, good post, very true. Sometimes I think some of us keep the record industry running lol.

 

I think watmm is essential imo (for me at least) and I would happily pay a sub. But I wouldn't want young forum members to be alienated. I was thinking of donating some money this christmas as Joyrex has worked out of his skin this year. Respect.

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Jeez, this site already costs me enough in purchases I keep finding out about on here!

/jk

 

 

 

 

 

Heh, good post, very true. Sometimes I think some of us keep the record industry running lol.

 

I think watmm is essential imo (for me at least) and I would happily pay a sub. But I wouldn't want young forum members to be alienated. I was thinking of donating some money this christmas as Joyrex has worked out of his skin this year. Respect.

 

 

By the way I was wondering about the donations : there was like a status bar just below the donation box, showing how much money had been given and for how long that money was enough to run WATMM, I thought that was quite good to show people how important it was, maybe you could put it again ?

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