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Did the "pay for the forum or get banned until you pay" remove some of your friends?


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Jeez, this site already costs me enough in purchases I keep finding out about on here!

/jk

 

 

 

 

 

Heh, good post, very true. Sometimes I think some of us keep the record industry running lol.

 

I think watmm is essential imo (for me at least) and I would happily pay a sub. But I wouldn't want young forum members to be alienated. I was thinking of donating some money this christmas as Joyrex has worked out of his skin this year. Respect.

 

 

By the way I was wondering about the donations : there was like a status bar just below the donation box, showing how much money had been given and for how long that money was enough to run WATMM, I thought that was quite good to show people how important it was, maybe you could put it again ?

 

The biggest issue with the status bar is it wasn't interactive - in other words, I had to manually update it every time there was a donation, etc. Additionally, if the bar was sitting at say 10.00 at the end of the month, invariably someone would jump in and make a donation to ensure we met the 50USD (Great!). The problem was, it was the same small group of people who felt it was important enough to ensure we met our hosting costs, while many didn't bother, or on the other end of the spectrum, it was at say 45.00, nobody would chip in the last 5.00 to ensure we made it. It also didn't factor in the VigLink payments, etc., so I ultimately removed it for my own sanity.

 

 

nothing to do with me pointing out that it was maxing out more than once a month? ;0

 

Homer_hedge.gif

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Jeez, this site already costs me enough in purchases I keep finding out about on here!

/jk

 

 

 

 

 

Heh, good post, very true. Sometimes I think some of us keep the record industry running lol.

 

I think watmm is essential imo (for me at least) and I would happily pay a sub. But I wouldn't want young forum members to be alienated. I was thinking of donating some money this christmas as Joyrex has worked out of his skin this year. Respect.

 

 

By the way I was wondering about the donations : there was like a status bar just below the donation box, showing how much money had been given and for how long that money was enough to run WATMM, I thought that was quite good to show people how important it was, maybe you could put it again ?

 

The biggest issue with the status bar is it wasn't interactive - in other words, I had to manually update it every time there was a donation, etc. Additionally, if the bar was sitting at say 10.00 at the end of the month, invariably someone would jump in and make a donation to ensure we met the 50USD (Great!). The problem was, it was the same small group of people who felt it was important enough to ensure we met our hosting costs, while many didn't bother, or on the other end of the spectrum, it was at say 45.00, nobody would chip in the last 5.00 to ensure we made it. It also didn't factor in the VigLink payments, etc., so I ultimately removed it for my own sanity.

 

 

nothing to do with me pointing out that it was maxing out more than once a month? ;0

 

Homer_hedge.gif

 

Did you actually point that out (at the time), or are you trying to stir things up because your home away from home is so dead, you got bored?

 

I find that hard to believe, tbh, considering I would had to manually update it - most likely you saw it fill, then I reset it when the hosting was paid (and I removed the amount for the hosting), then it refilled (I recall that happened one time when someone made a generous donation thinking we hadn't gotten any donations for the month, when in fact we had hit the goal).

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It was pointed out, i don't believe in reality distortion fields. If i had to deal with them too often i'd probably start grinding my teeth or something and that wouldn't be good, because the frequency that it generates would cause our planet to resonate, and now we're talking earth quakes and the deccan traps all over again. Just stick to the facts maam.

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I pointed it out at the time and you know it.

I don't recall it, but as I explained, that was probably the reason for it - did you post that somewhere, or PM me? Perhaps dig up the PM and see what I said at the time. I honestly don't recall, and I wonder why you'd pop up again just to make a point like that (other than the obvious reasons, of course).

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It was pointed out in a thread JR. Who knows which one. Ppl noticed that the donation bar would just roll over to empty again if the monthly amount required had been reached, instead of just showing the cumulative total. So ppl would then donate thinking we were back in the red for that month when it wasn't the case.

 

I can't say how many times this happened, but more than one had noticed it.

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I noticed it and initially kept an eye on it quietly, saw it roll over up to 3 times a month, again and again, so I spoke out back when I still posted here. I dont post much (you already had a pathetic cheap shot at where i choose to hang out for some reason) but I still browse occasionally and read your explanation and thought that smells like bullshit... I posted so that people have an all round view of where they're putting their money. I just don't buy that you had to adjust the bar manually. I also don't have a problem with you making money for your hard work maintaining the site but this doesn't sit well with me. I spent a lot of time here and felt justified to pitch in. If you think I've lost my right to contribute by spending some time elsewhere, then make it so.

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It was pointed out in a thread JR. Who knows which one. Ppl noticed that the donation bar would just roll over to empty again if the monthly amount required had been reached, instead of just showing the cumulative total. So ppl would then donate thinking we were back in the red for that month when it wasn't the case.

 

I can't say how many times this happened, but more than one had noticed it.

 

Yeah but if I remember correctly, the bar showed until which month enough money had been given for the forum to work - and the bar cleary showed that we were raising money for the month of, let's say, July when we were still in April. Which was clearly a good thing in my opinion.

 

Anyway, sorry to have asked that question about the donation bar :whistling:

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It was pointed out in a thread JR. Who knows which one. Ppl noticed that the donation bar would just roll over to empty again if the monthly amount required had been reached, instead of just showing the cumulative total. So ppl would then donate thinking we were back in the red for that month when it wasn't the case.

 

I can't say how many times this happened, but more than one had noticed it.

 

Yeah but if I remember correctly, the bar showed until which month enough money had been given for the forum to work - and the bar cleary showed that we were raising money for the month of, let's say, July when we were still in April. Which was clearly a good thing in my opinion.

 

Anyway, sorry to have asked that question about the donation bar :whistling:

 

 

nope, that would have been an honest way to do it.

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The old conversation on donations is in the Reality Check thread, and actually most of it is in the post I quoted below. If I read it all correctly Joyrex seems to say there was once an "old" meter that actually showed the month that was being paid for and then the newer one that just kept rolling over. Maybe the "old" one is the one Joyrex had to update manually. I honestly don't remember what that one even looked like, but I do remember the "newer" (now also gone) one being awfully dodgy.

 

 

 

 

joyrex, re the forum donation bar thing... 3 or 4 days ago it said 60% of target had been reached for the month. today it says 24%. what's up with that?

Cocaine is a hell of a drug :emotawesomepm9:

 

Seriously though - the meter "rolls over" once the amount is met, so now we're 24% of the way towards next month's hosting costs.

 

In other good news, our hosting company has doubled our HDD space at no extra cost, so I'll be getting the updated Downloads module for the forum and we'll be putting up the Downloads (officially) again, so Chaosmachine won't have to host them anymore. More importantly, we'll have an interface for adding new downloads.

 

The extra space has given me some ideas for EKT as well...

 

then shouldn't it say something like "thank you! we have reached this month's target" or "we are now collecting for next month's fees". in theory, with this set up, it can "roll over" many times in a month and keep indicating that we're way off target, which encourages more donations when you already have your funding... maybe it should stop at 'fully donated' until the change of month, then jump to the new month's donation level?

 

as it is, it's extremely misleading and totally unethical. i'm not blaming you, especially if it's built in to the forum software, but it should definitely be changed in the name of fairness.

 

I see what you're saying... this is the limited free version of the donation meter addon, so perhaps it's time to invest in the "pro" version that has more features (like multiple goals, etc.) - that might allow it to be more clear on what the current month's goal is, versus a long-term goal, etc.

 

 

 

 

joyrex, re the forum donation bar thing... 3 or 4 days ago it said 60% of target had been reached for the month. today it says 24%. what's up with that?

Cocaine is a hell of a drug :emotawesomepm9:

 

Seriously though - the meter "rolls over" once the amount is met, so now we're 24% of the way towards next month's hosting costs.

 

In other good news, our hosting company has doubled our HDD space at no extra cost, so I'll be getting the updated Downloads module for the forum and we'll be putting up the Downloads (officially) again, so Chaosmachine won't have to host them anymore. More importantly, we'll have an interface for adding new downloads.

 

The extra space has given me some ideas for EKT as well...

 

then shouldn't it say something like "thank you! we have reached this month's target" or "we are now collecting for next month's fees". in theory, with this set up, it can "roll over" many times in a month and keep indicating that we're way off target, which encourages more donations when you already have your funding... maybe it should stop at 'fully donated' until the change of month, then jump to the new month's donation level?

 

as it is, it's extremely misleading and totally unethical. i'm not blaming you, especially if it's built in to the forum software, but it should definitely be changed in the name of fairness.

 

Perhaps there should be a yearly target as well. I agree that if we contribute we should have some indication of how much is left to be paid, when you have a financial stake there shouldn't be any haziness. As i was under the impression that we were just making enough to get by, perhaps some stats would help bring this home to people that we are really month to month.

 

I do think that all users should contribute something though, regardless of hosting costs and what have you. If every medium to heavy user gave 10 bucks, this place would have plenty penny.

 

I like the idea of a yearly target - the biggest issue with showing a monthly goal (and reaching it) is a lot of people see that and say, "oh, they've got this month covered, I won't bother donating" and then we run into potential deficits. The old donation meter was like that where it said the month being collected for.

 

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Jeez.

 

I get enough enjoyment and information from this place to chuck it a few pounds every year to help keep it going.

 

I learn more about the music I'm into from watmm than anywhere else on the net, and the occasional banter / kek is most welcome.

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cheers manmower...

 

The old conversation on donations is in the Reality Check thread, and actually most of it is in the post I quoted below. If I read it all correctly Joyrex seems to say there was once an "old" meter that actually showed the month that was being paid for and then the newer one that just kept rolling over. Maybe the "old" one is the one Joyrex had to update manually. I honestly don't remember what that one even looked like, but I do remember the "newer" (now also gone) one being awfully dodgy.

 

 

 

joyrex, re the forum donation bar thing... 3 or 4 days ago it said 60% of target had been reached for the month. today it says 24%. what's up with that?

Cocaine is a hell of a drug :emotawesomepm9:

Seriously though - the meter "rolls over" once the amount is met, so now we're 24% of the way towards next month's hosting costs.

In other good news, our hosting company has doubled our HDD space at no extra cost, so I'll be getting the updated Downloads module for the forum and we'll be putting up the Downloads (officially) again, so Chaosmachine won't have to host them anymore. More importantly, we'll have an interface for adding new downloads.

The extra space has given me some ideas for EKT as well...

 


then shouldn't it say something like "thank you! we have reached this month's target" or "we are now collecting for next month's fees". in theory, with this set up, it can "roll over" many times in a month and keep indicating that we're way off target, which encourages more donations when you already have your funding... maybe it should stop at 'fully donated' until the change of month, then jump to the new month's donation level?

as it is, it's extremely misleading and totally unethical. i'm not blaming you, especially if it's built in to the forum software, but it should definitely be changed in the name of fairness.

 


I see what you're saying... this is the limited free version of the donation meter addon, so perhaps it's time to invest in the "pro" version that has more features (like multiple goals, etc.) - that might allow it to be more clear on what the current month's goal is, versus a long-term goal, etc.

 

 

 

joyrex, re the forum donation bar thing... 3 or 4 days ago it said 60% of target had been reached for the month. today it says 24%. what's up with that?

Cocaine is a hell of a drug :emotawesomepm9:

Seriously though - the meter "rolls over" once the amount is met, so now we're 24% of the way towards next month's hosting costs.

In other good news, our hosting company has doubled our HDD space at no extra cost, so I'll be getting the updated Downloads module for the forum and we'll be putting up the Downloads (officially) again, so Chaosmachine won't have to host them anymore. More importantly, we'll have an interface for adding new downloads.

The extra space has given me some ideas for EKT as well...

 


then shouldn't it say something like "thank you! we have reached this month's target" or "we are now collecting for next month's fees". in theory, with this set up, it can "roll over" many times in a month and keep indicating that we're way off target, which encourages more donations when you already have your funding... maybe it should stop at 'fully donated' until the change of month, then jump to the new month's donation level?

as it is, it's extremely misleading and totally unethical. i'm not blaming you, especially if it's built in to the forum software, but it should definitely be changed in the name of fairness.

 


Perhaps there should be a yearly target as well. I agree that if we contribute we should have some indication of how much is left to be paid, when you have a financial stake there shouldn't be any haziness. As i was under the impression that we were just making enough to get by, perhaps some stats would help bring this home to people that we are really month to month.

I do think that all users should contribute something though, regardless of hosting costs and what have you. If every medium to heavy user gave 10 bucks, this place would have plenty penny.

 


I like the idea of a yearly target - the biggest issue with showing a monthly goal (and reaching it) is a lot of people see that and say, "oh, they've got this month covered, I won't bother donating" and then we run into potential deficits. The old donation meter was like that where it said the month being collected for.

 

 

 

like i said, all kind of stinky.

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I noticed it and initially kept an eye on it quietly, saw it roll over up to 3 times a month, again and again, so I spoke out back when I still posted here. I dont post much (you already had a pathetic cheap shot at where i choose to hang out for some reason) but I still browse occasionally and read your explanation and thought that smells like bullshit... I posted so that people have an all round view of where they're putting their money. I just don't buy that you had to adjust the bar manually. I also don't have a problem with you making money for your hard work maintaining the site but this doesn't sit well with me. I spent a lot of time here and felt justified to pitch in. If you think I've lost my right to contribute by spending some time elsewhere, then make it so.

You're free to do whatever you want... I just think it's a bit pathetic coming back just to stir up shit, versus actually contributing to the conversations on the site.

 

 

It was pointed out in a thread JR. Who knows which one. Ppl noticed that the donation bar would just roll over to empty again if the monthly amount required had been reached, instead of just showing the cumulative total. So ppl would then donate thinking we were back in the red for that month when it wasn't the case.

 

I can't say how many times this happened, but more than one had noticed it.

 

Yeah but if I remember correctly, the bar showed until which month enough money had been given for the forum to work - and the bar cleary showed that we were raising money for the month of, let's say, July when we were still in April. Which was clearly a good thing in my opinion.

 

Anyway, sorry to have asked that question about the donation bar :whistling:

 

No, you have nothing to apologize about - I want things to be as transparent as possible, and I have no issues answering queries like this... as long as they're not used to imply things without any substantial proof or as a vehicle to stir things up.

 

 

 

It was pointed out in a thread JR. Who knows which one. Ppl noticed that the donation bar would just roll over to empty again if the monthly amount required had been reached, instead of just showing the cumulative total. So ppl would then donate thinking we were back in the red for that month when it wasn't the case.

 

I can't say how many times this happened, but more than one had noticed it.

 

Yeah but if I remember correctly, the bar showed until which month enough money had been given for the forum to work - and the bar cleary showed that we were raising money for the month of, let's say, July when we were still in April. Which was clearly a good thing in my opinion.

 

Anyway, sorry to have asked that question about the donation bar :whistling:

 

 

nope, that would have been an honest way to do it.

 

Again, with the little digs - please tell me what I'm not being "honest" about - I explained (and now that post refreshed my memory), I'll explain again:

 

The donation addon I was using (the first one) had a monthly goal setting - when the goal was reached, I would have to manually reset it, and I would change it to say "for [month]'s hosting costs", and each time it would fill up (and cover that month's hosting), I would do this.

 

I then found a better donation addon that purported to automate the process, but as it turned out, that was only the "pro" version and I still had to update it manually, and did not have any way to indicate it was for x month. The pro version also had issues that I read up on, leading me not to pay for it.

 

I think the idea of having an annual costs bar is a good one, and I'll take a look again at if there is an automated one - I'd rather have it reflect the current payments coming in and how close we are to covering the annual costs (monthly hosting plus software licenses), so if the paid memberships aren't cutting it, those who wish to do so can donate (honestly, if everyone had a paid account, there would be no reason to need donations). I also don't want to manually update it, as not only can it be confusing, but time consuming.

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i just haven't posted here for a while, it's not like i go around bad mouthing you or this site and i'm not some kind of enemy or threat. it so happens that i felt i had something to contribute to this thread when your "explanation" didn't fit with my recollection... i honestly didn't come back just to stir shit up as you keep saying. next you'll be calling me troll.

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i just haven't posted here for a while, it's not like i go around bad mouthing you or this site and i'm not some kind of enemy or threat. it so happens that i felt i had something to contribute to this thread when your "explanation" didn't fit with my recollection... i honestly didn't come back just to stir shit up as you keep saying. next you'll be calling me troll.

I don't see you as that nor did I say that... just thought it a bit odd you felt compelled to publicly address this, versus a simple email or PM - it's almost as if posting it as you did was the desired effect, versus asking me directly why you seemed to recall differently. Your choice, though.

 

Bottom line - I want everyone to feel their contributions (content or financial) are being represented as much as possible, so hence why I'm trying to clear this up for anyone interested.

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Also, i remembered it differently too JR, that is why i spoke up for keltoi's recollection. Someone has to be less dark about this, so i don't think keltoi was digging at you personally, just annoyed that you didn't accept the point, which was obvious to those that remembered it, cause it was kind of an odd thing at the time (not thought about as a malicious cash grab using a dodgy tactic, this isn't what i mean, don't be paranoid [-;), which you did explain to a reasonable degree of satisfaction. Given that that there're so many odds and ends to running a website, i'm not surprised when these things crop up.

 

Anyway, bottom line, many people noticed the empty donation meter thing. It was discussed, we're talking about it again. /divvy's up cake

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