How does the World view America these days?

[prdctvsm]

[marf]

declawed cats? You are focusing on the wrong stuff. I don't know anyone who does that. Ive never seen a hand gun in my life other than holstered by a cop. 

Things can look weird if you aren't actually in the place.

Edited July 28, 2020 by marf

[zero]

16 minutes ago, sweepstakes said:

Uhh, what would be the net gain from this, i.e. why the fuck would they do this? This seems like an obvious attempt to stoke xenophobia.

the whole thing is WTF. China sending packets of seeds to random people in USA seems like the plot to the beginning of a B-horror movie. the seeds grow into evil corona virus spewing monsters that terrorize the country. crazy orange american leader retaliates by dropping nuclear bombs on them.

[chenGOD]

2 hours ago, marf said:

declawed cats? You are focusing on the wrong stuff. I don't know anyone who does that. Ive never seen a hand gun in my life other than holstered by a cop. 

Things can look weird if you aren't actually in the place.

Obviously this, the problem is media, both social and mass, focus on the fringe, either for fake internet points or for viewers, as the fringe is what draws attention. 
The rise of the 24/7 news cycle leads to less quality control, as broadcasters rush to break a story, which leaves little or no time for fact checking and research. 
Combine that with the desire for the masses to consume the incredible, and you get headlines like “PORTLAND IS A WAR ZONE”, when in actual fact, the majority of protests happen in broad daylight, are completely peaceful, and nothing happens. 

[dingformung]

25% is hardly fringe. I agree, though, that other things are more important right now. Very specific things can be indicative for the bigger picture, though. Induction, innit.

2 hours ago, marf said:

declawed cats? You are focusing on the wrong stuff. I don't know anyone who does that. Ive never seen a hand gun in my life other than holstered by a cop. 

Things can look weird if you aren't actually in the place.

The fact that you are in the huge place we are talking about doesn't mean you know much about it. You know what happens in your bubble.

[chenGOD]

10 minutes ago, dingformung said:

25% is hardly fringe. I agree, though, that other things are more important right now. Very specific things can be indicative for the bigger picture, though. Induction, innit.

The fact that you are in the huge place we are talking about doesn't mean you know much about it. You know what happens in your bubble.

25% of cat owners is not 25% of the population. Sure it’s not fringe per se, but the flip side of course is that 75% don’t. 
But that doesn’t sell many newspapers/get internet karma points etc etc. 
It’s really the same thing (although with a differing level of severity and impact) about police brutality. There are 10 million or so police-public interactions every year in the states. There are 1,500 deaths (at the upper bound) at the hands of police, and we don’t know what percentage of those are unjustified. 
Now, one wrongful death is one too many, but the problem is a different one than what the media will lead you to believe. 

[dingformung]

It should be clear that the media focuses on the interesting stuff rather than on the boring stuff and often amplifies things to an inappropriate extend out of self-interest. But the number of school shootings and other similar statistics indicate that the US indeed has a violence problem. Their foreign policy tells a similar story. You don't need to live there to make that evaluation.

[marf]

Im sure if I hung out with hunters and gun nuts Id see a hand gun.  You have to look for this shit. It's not in your everyday life. 

Yes, It is sensationalism. Americans are like most people. 

And Germany is so small. Germany has always been a peaceful country and I applaud you for that. 

It's so complicated the gun situation here. We can't even get people to wear masks because it violates their freedom

Edited July 29, 2020 by marf

[dingformung]

Americans only eat burger.

Edited July 29, 2020 by dingformung

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, dingformung said:

It should be clear that the media focuses on the interesting stuff rather than on the boring stuff and often amplifies things to an inappropriate extend out of self-interest. But the number of school shootings and other similar statistics indicate that the US indeed has a violence problem. Their foreign policy tells a similar story. You don't need to live there to make that evaluation.

Sure violence is a problem in the US, but they’re far from the worst offender in the world. Not even the worst in the OECD. Violence is a problem everywhere in the world. 

Their foreign policy at its most violent is certainly much lower in intensity than when European powers were vying for global supremacy....so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make there?

Anyhow America/Capitalism bad, no problem. Have a (Canadian) borger. 

[dingformung]

^It's the America thread, though, not the history of Europe thread.

20 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make there?

Marf basically said that you can't make statements about the US if you don't live there and that the things you see and hear in media is pure sensationalism and I opposed to it by referring to statistics that paint a more accurate picture than living in a certain American bubble can give you. Any media savvy person should know that you have to try and subtract out the sensationalism. If you are asking what the point of people offering opinions about America is, ask the OP.

20 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Anyhow America bad

In regards of what we talked about, yes. There is a difference between bad and evil, though.

Edited July 29, 2020 by dingformung

[prdctvsm]

[chenGOD]

2 hours ago, dingformung said:

^It's the America thread, though, not the history of Europe thread.

Marf basically said that you can't make statements about the US if you don't live there and that the things you see and hear in media is pure sensationalism and I opposed to it by referring to statistics that paint a more accurate picture than living in a certain American bubble can give you. Any media savvy person should know that you have to try and subtract out the sensationalism. If you are asking what the point of people offering opinions about America is, ask the OP.

In regards of what we talked about, yes. There is a difference between bad and evil, though.

Sure, and I guess the point is that American foreign policy isn't particularly violent, at least compared to what’s gone before. 
 

The media is sensationalist, and presenting facts about cats getting declawed doesn’t contradict that. The media used to be far less sensationalist (and I’m old, so I remember life before the web and social media) and that is a different issue, but what the current media world that we live in does do is portray a very skewed perspective. For example, we have a thread called “what’s wrong with Florida”, and a common meme is “Florida man”. But do you know why Florida seems worse than other states?  Because of freedom of information laws in the state provide  faster and easier access to police records than in other states. 
 

Another example that is anecdotal: Detroit. Many people think Detroit is a hellscape, full of murder and derelict housing. If you go to downtown Detroit, you’d find it’s a pretty decent place. There is still derelict housing thanks to white flight and then the collapse of the auto industry, but some of it is being bought up and turned into an art project, and some of it is being rebuilt. 
 

The Portland riots are another good example. If all you went on was media reports, you’d think that city was under siege, it was a war zone and there’s non-stop tear gas. When reports from people who actually live there (in their bubble, as it were) say otherwise. 
 

The vast majority of Americans I’ve met have all been good, kind people. And none of the statistics on cat declawing (which actually need further clarification, as it’s 20-25% of domestic cats, not cat owning households) or school shootings (as tragic as they are) really say otherwise. Gun violence is terrible and often tragically fatal. However, the number of people murdered by guns in 2017 in the US amounted to 0.0044% of the US population. Far more people died from gun suicide.  

So yeah, America has problems, but it also has a lot of incredible people and accomplishments, and literally hundreds of millions of completely normal people. It’s not to say that we can’t criticize the US, or that it can’t do better for its people (universal healthcare, come on you fuckwits, it even makes economic sense), but again, it’s still a place that a lot of people want to go, for many good reasons (the primary one being that the country they are moving from is an actual hellscape).

[Braintree]

Interesting to note the amount of comments vs. the amount of likes/dislikes.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to focus the entire story on Alex Jones. There's a much larger and broader implication with conspiracy theories being used by the right wing. Sure, he's a crackpot, but there are others like Crowder who represent the "reasonable" face of that horse shit.

[bendish]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/meet-the-american-wolf-self-appointed-peacekeeper-of-the-pacific-northwest/2020/07/28/62892ff1-b64b-48dc-99df-d84b6693f4cb_video.html 

[dcom]

Quote

The appeal of conspiracy theories is manifold: a rebuke of institutional corruption and incompetence, definitive answers to life’s ambiguities, the high stakes drama of good vs. evil, the self-esteem boost of supposedly “seeing behind the curtain,” the opportunity to give formless anxieties a human shape. On social media platforms, conspiracy beliefs can also become addictive and immersive — they become a gamified layer of everyday life, imbuing mundane objects, situations, and gestures with larger-than-life significance. Participants in conspiratorial forums can collaboratively and synchronously search for suspicious patterns and secure a sense of negative solidarity, as digital comrades in arms fighting an epic battle against the forces of darkness.

This is Not a Game (Jon Glover, Real Life Magazine)

[goDel]

Sums it up nicely

[dingformung]

5 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Sure, and I guess the point is that American foreign policy isn't particularly violent, at least compared to what’s gone before. 
 

The media is sensationalist, and presenting facts about cats getting declawed doesn’t contradict that. The media used to be far less sensationalist (and I’m old, so I remember life before the web and social media) and that is a different issue, but what the current media world that we live in does do is portray a very skewed perspective. For example, we have a thread called “what’s wrong with Florida”, and a common meme is “Florida man”. But do you know why Florida seems worse than other states?  Because of freedom of information laws in the state provide  faster and easier access to police records than in other states. 
 

Another example that is anecdotal: Detroit. Many people think Detroit is a hellscape, full of murder and derelict housing. If you go to downtown Detroit, you’d find it’s a pretty decent place. There is still derelict housing thanks to white flight and then the collapse of the auto industry, but some of it is being bought up and turned into an art project, and some of it is being rebuilt. 
 

The Portland riots are another good example. If all you went on was media reports, you’d think that city was under siege, it was a war zone and there’s non-stop tear gas. When reports from people who actually live there (in their bubble, as it were) say otherwise. 
 

The vast majority of Americans I’ve met have all been good, kind people. And none of the statistics on cat declawing (which actually need further clarification, as it’s 20-25% of domestic cats, not cat owning households) or school shootings (as tragic as they are) really say otherwise. Gun violence is terrible and often tragically fatal. However, the number of people murdered by guns in 2017 in the US amounted to 0.0044% of the US population. Far more people died from gun suicide.  

So yeah, America has problems, but it also has a lot of incredible people and accomplishments, and literally hundreds of millions of completely normal people. It’s not to say that we can’t criticize the US, or that it can’t do better for its people (universal healthcare, come on you fuckwits, it even makes economic sense), but again, it’s still a place that a lot of people want to go, for many good reasons (the primary one being that the country they are moving from is an actual hellscape).

Let's not forget the student loan crisis and other things. It's pretty bad, no matter what sensationalist phrasing media headlines choose (again, you should be able to see through the click bait attempts and amplification). I sort of get your point. There are worse places in the world (that's for another topic, though). Some places in the world are hellscapes as a direct result of US foreign policy, though (if you want to call wars foreign policy). The entanglement with the Saud family is pretty gross. The whole NSA affair, spying on everyone in the world including allies and foreign industries is one of the more harmless things. Don't be an apologist. A lot of the American ways are violent and idiotic. I could name a few similar things about my own country e.g. allowing the military base Ramstein to be a legal black hole, which is used by the American military to do extra-judicial drone strikes all over the middle east or to illegally supply weapons to Syria. 

5 hours ago, chenGOD said:

The vast majority of Americans I’ve met have all been good, kind people.

Okay, I don't disagree, but that's manners. In the end that goes for all places or are there places that you'd say of: "I only met assholes from there."? They do have this over the top  small-talk culture, which is nice when you're a tourist there and it's not entirely fair to label it as "fake" or "superficial" as you might sometimes hear, I suspect the same goes for Canada. They didn't really have a say in choosing what their military-industrial complex does, other than ticking one box or the other at the ballot, based on distorted information they got by a media landscape almost entirely owned by a few elite groups (not saying there aren't also excellent American news outlets). But even if it wasn't, a two-party system is bollocks.

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by dingformung

[caze]

13 hours ago, zero said:

the whole thing is WTF. China sending packets of seeds to random people in USA seems like the plot to the beginning of a B-horror movie. the seeds grow into evil corona virus spewing monsters that terrorize the country. crazy orange american leader retaliates by dropping nuclear bombs on them.

Heh.

It's not some kind of conspiracy fear mongering though, they just don't want a potentially invasive foreign plant species from taking hold, as has often happened in the past.

[zkom]

17 hours ago, sweepstakes said:

Uhh, what would be the net gain from this, i.e. why the fuck would they do this? This seems like an obvious attempt to stoke xenophobia.

It might be a scam in which who ever is doing this needs to get a receipt of a sent package to process a fraudulent payment and then it was just easiest to send seeds because they appear like jewelry when x-rayed or something.

If the CCP wanted to plant invasive species in USA then I think they would do it in far less visible way like use their own agents to randomly plant some species not native to China so it would be blamed on non-Chinese immigrants.

[caze]

57 minutes ago, zkom said:

If the CCP wanted to plant invasive species in USA then I think they would do it in far less visible way like use their own agents to randomly plant some species not native to China so it would be blamed on non-Chinese immigrants.

I don't think the CCP want to spread invasive plant species, it's just some guy sending seeds because they're cheap, but the problem from growing them is real.

[zero]

I would probably plant one of those seeds in a flower pot just to see what happens

[caze]

Edited July 29, 2020 by caze

[zkom]

6 minutes ago, zero said:

I would probably plant one of those seeds in a flower pot just to see what happens

[caze]