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How does the World view America these days?


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2 hours ago, dingformung said:

^It's the America thread, though, not the history of Europe thread.

Marf basically said that you can't make statements about the US if you don't live there and that the things you see and hear in media is pure sensationalism and I opposed to it by referring to statistics that paint a more accurate picture than living in a certain American bubble can give you. Any media savvy person should know that you have to try and subtract out the sensationalism. If you are asking what the point of people offering opinions about America is, ask the OP.

In regards of what we talked about, yes. There is a difference between bad and evil, though.

Sure, and I guess the point is that American foreign policy isn't particularly violent, at least compared to what’s gone before. 
 

The media is sensationalist, and presenting facts about cats getting declawed doesn’t contradict that. The media used to be far less sensationalist (and I’m old, so I remember life before the web and social media) and that is a different issue, but what the current media world that we live in does do is portray a very skewed perspective. For example, we have a thread called “what’s wrong with Florida”, and a common meme is “Florida man”. But do you know why Florida seems worse than other states?  Because of freedom of information laws in the state provide  faster and easier access to police records than in other states. 
 

Another example that is anecdotal: Detroit. Many people think Detroit is a hellscape, full of murder and derelict housing. If you go to downtown Detroit, you’d find it’s a pretty decent place. There is still derelict housing thanks to white flight and then the collapse of the auto industry, but some of it is being bought up and turned into an art project, and some of it is being rebuilt. 
 

The Portland riots are another good example. If all you went on was media reports, you’d think that city was under siege, it was a war zone and there’s non-stop tear gas. When reports from people who actually live there (in their bubble, as it were) say otherwise. 
 

The vast majority of Americans I’ve met have all been good, kind people. And none of the statistics on cat declawing (which actually need further clarification, as it’s 20-25% of domestic cats, not cat owning households) or school shootings (as tragic as they are) really say otherwise. Gun violence is terrible and often tragically fatal. However, the number of people murdered by guns in 2017 in the US amounted to 0.0044% of the US population. Far more people died from gun suicide.  

So yeah, America has problems, but it also has a lot of incredible people and accomplishments, and literally hundreds of millions of completely normal people. It’s not to say that we can’t criticize the US, or that it can’t do better for its people (universal healthcare, come on you fuckwits, it even makes economic sense), but again, it’s still a place that a lot of people want to go, for many good reasons (the primary one being that the country they are moving from is an actual hellscape).

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Interesting to note the amount of comments vs. the amount of likes/dislikes.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to focus the entire story on Alex Jones. There's a much larger and broader implication with conspiracy theories being used by the right wing. Sure, he's a crackpot, but there are others like Crowder who represent the "reasonable" face of that horse shit.

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Quote

The appeal of conspiracy theories is manifold: a rebuke of institutional corruption and incompetence, definitive answers to life’s ambiguities, the high stakes drama of good vs. evil, the self-esteem boost of supposedly “seeing behind the curtain,” the opportunity to give formless anxieties a human shape. On social media platforms, conspiracy beliefs can also become addictive and immersive — they become a gamified layer of everyday life, imbuing mundane objects, situations, and gestures with larger-than-life significance. Participants in conspiratorial forums can collaboratively and synchronously search for suspicious patterns and secure a sense of negative solidarity, as digital comrades in arms fighting an epic battle against the forces of darkness.

This is Not a Game (Jon Glover, Real Life Magazine)

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5 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Sure, and I guess the point is that American foreign policy isn't particularly violent, at least compared to what’s gone before. 
 

The media is sensationalist, and presenting facts about cats getting declawed doesn’t contradict that. The media used to be far less sensationalist (and I’m old, so I remember life before the web and social media) and that is a different issue, but what the current media world that we live in does do is portray a very skewed perspective. For example, we have a thread called “what’s wrong with Florida”, and a common meme is “Florida man”. But do you know why Florida seems worse than other states?  Because of freedom of information laws in the state provide  faster and easier access to police records than in other states. 
 

Another example that is anecdotal: Detroit. Many people think Detroit is a hellscape, full of murder and derelict housing. If you go to downtown Detroit, you’d find it’s a pretty decent place. There is still derelict housing thanks to white flight and then the collapse of the auto industry, but some of it is being bought up and turned into an art project, and some of it is being rebuilt. 
 

The Portland riots are another good example. If all you went on was media reports, you’d think that city was under siege, it was a war zone and there’s non-stop tear gas. When reports from people who actually live there (in their bubble, as it were) say otherwise. 
 

The vast majority of Americans I’ve met have all been good, kind people. And none of the statistics on cat declawing (which actually need further clarification, as it’s 20-25% of domestic cats, not cat owning households) or school shootings (as tragic as they are) really say otherwise. Gun violence is terrible and often tragically fatal. However, the number of people murdered by guns in 2017 in the US amounted to 0.0044% of the US population. Far more people died from gun suicide.  

So yeah, America has problems, but it also has a lot of incredible people and accomplishments, and literally hundreds of millions of completely normal people. It’s not to say that we can’t criticize the US, or that it can’t do better for its people (universal healthcare, come on you fuckwits, it even makes economic sense), but again, it’s still a place that a lot of people want to go, for many good reasons (the primary one being that the country they are moving from is an actual hellscape).

Let's not forget the student loan crisis and other things. It's pretty bad, no matter what sensationalist phrasing media headlines choose (again, you should be able to see through the click bait attempts and amplification). I sort of get your point. There are worse places in the world (that's for another topic, though). Some places in the world are hellscapes as a direct result of US foreign policy, though (if you want to call wars foreign policy). The entanglement with the Saud family is pretty gross. The whole NSA affair, spying on everyone in the world including allies and foreign industries is one of the more harmless things. Don't be an apologist. A lot of the American ways are violent and idiotic. I could name a few similar things about my own country e.g. allowing the military base Ramstein to be a legal black hole, which is used by the American military to do extra-judicial drone strikes all over the middle east or to illegally supply weapons to Syria. 

5 hours ago, chenGOD said:

The vast majority of Americans I’ve met have all been good, kind people.

Okay, I don't disagree, but that's manners. In the end that goes for all places or are there places that you'd say of: "I only met assholes from there."? They do have this over the top  small-talk culture, which is nice when you're a tourist there and it's not entirely fair to label it as "fake" or "superficial" as you might sometimes hear, I suspect the same goes for Canada. They didn't really have a say in choosing what their military-industrial complex does, other than ticking one box or the other at the ballot, based on distorted information they got by a media landscape almost entirely owned by a few elite groups (not saying there aren't also excellent American news outlets). But even if it wasn't, a two-party system is bollocks.

 

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13 hours ago, zero said:

the whole thing is WTF. China sending packets of seeds to random people in USA seems like the plot to the beginning of a B-horror movie. the seeds grow into evil corona virus spewing monsters that terrorize the country. crazy orange american leader retaliates by dropping nuclear bombs on them.

Heh.

It's not some kind of conspiracy fear mongering though, they just don't want a potentially invasive foreign plant species from taking hold, as has often happened in the past.

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17 hours ago, sweepstakes said:

Uhh, what would be the net gain from this, i.e. why the fuck would they do this? This seems like an obvious attempt to stoke xenophobia.

It might be a scam in which who ever is doing this needs to get a receipt of a sent package to process a fraudulent payment and then it was just easiest to send seeds because they appear like jewelry when x-rayed or something.

If the CCP wanted to plant invasive species in USA then I think they would do it in far less visible way like use their own agents to randomly plant some species not native to China so it would be blamed on non-Chinese immigrants.

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57 minutes ago, zkom said:

If the CCP wanted to plant invasive species in USA then I think they would do it in far less visible way like use their own agents to randomly plant some species not native to China so it would be blamed on non-Chinese immigrants.

I don't think the CCP want to spread invasive plant species, it's just some guy sending seeds because they're cheap, but the problem from growing them is real.

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6 minutes ago, zero said:

I would probably plant one of those seeds in a flower pot just to see what happens

Little+Shop+of+Horrors+(3).jpg

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19 hours ago, prdctvsm said:

b273006cdf1388fc1b27e38a2b652f88c24e7550

Bowling Warney, bowling.

6 hours ago, dingformung said:

Let's not forget the student loan crisis and other things. It's pretty bad, no matter what sensationalist phrasing media headlines choose (again, you should be able to see through the click bait attempts and amplification). I sort of get your point. There are worse places in the world (that's for another topic, though). Some places in the world are hellscapes as a direct result of US foreign policy, though (if you want to call wars foreign policy). The entanglement with the Saud family is pretty gross. The whole NSA affair, spying on everyone in the world including allies and foreign industries is one of the more harmless things. Don't be an apologist. A lot of the American ways are violent and idiotic. I could name a few similar things about my own country e.g. allowing the military base Ramstein to be a legal black hole, which is used by the American military to do extra-judicial drone strikes all over the middle east or to illegally supply weapons to Syria. 

Okay, I don't disagree, but that's manners. In the end that goes for all places or are there places that you'd say of: "I only met assholes from there."? They do have this over the top  small-talk culture, which is nice when you're a tourist there and it's not entirely fair to label it as "fake" or "superficial" as you might sometimes hear, I suspect the same goes for Canada. They didn't really have a say in choosing what their military-industrial complex does, other than ticking one box or the other at the ballot, based on distorted information they got by a media landscape almost entirely owned by a few elite groups (not saying there aren't also excellent American news outlets). But even if it wasn't, a two-party system is bollocks.

 

When my brother worked in Eindhoven we’d go out drinking with his mates. Nothing too rowdy. Anyway, on a few occasions we’d ask someone for a light for a cig and they’d reply “no, fuck off please”. Rude politeness personified. 

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6 hours ago, dingformung said:

Let's not forget the student loan crisis and other things. It's pretty bad, no matter what sensationalist phrasing media headlines choose (again, you should be able to see through the click bait attempts and amplification). I sort of get your point. There are worse places in the world (that's for another topic, though). Some places in the world are hellscapes as a direct result of US foreign policy, though (if you want to call wars foreign policy). The entanglement with the Saud family is pretty gross. The whole NSA affair, spying on everyone in the world including allies and foreign industries is one of the more harmless things. Don't be an apologist. A lot of the American ways are violent and idiotic. I could name a few similar things about my own country e.g. allowing the military base Ramstein to be a legal black hole, which is used by the American military to do extra-judicial drone strikes all over the middle east or to illegally supply weapons to Syria. 

 

 

Okay, I don't disagree, but that's manners. In the end that goes for all places or are there places that you'd say of: "I only met assholes from there."? They do have this over the top  small-talk culture, which is nice when you're a tourist there and it's not entirely fair to label it as "fake" or "superficial" as you might sometimes hear, I suspect the same goes for Canada. They didn't really have a say in choosing what their military-industrial complex does, other than ticking one box or the other at the ballot, based on distorted information they got by a media landscape almost entirely owned by a few elite groups (not saying there aren't also excellent American news outlets). But even if it wasn't, a two-party system is bollocks.

 

Man, every country conducts espionage. Including Germany and every other EU nation. They all do it to the full extent of their capacity and capability to do so. 

Your own media landscape is owned by a select few groups (Bertelsmann and Springer?), so that’s not a unique thing to criticize America about. I do agree that their two-party system is in drastic need of reform. 

I guess my point is don’t conflate what the media reports with the reality on the ground in the country. Even the student loan crisis in the US is all too easily misrepresented. Misuse of averages, short-termism, etc. These all affect public perception, which can impact public policy making. 
 

As to your comments about “small talk” in Canada, all I can say is come visit. I’ve got a spare room in my bourgeois mansion. 


 

 

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19 hours ago, sweepstakes said:

Uhh, what would be the net gain from this, i.e. why the fuck would they do this? This seems like an obvious attempt to stoke xenophobia.

That rigth there is a scam.
The scammer is creating and shipping out fake orders in order to both boost order numbers and place false verified reviews. The country most commonly associated with brushing is China, but packages may also come from other countries. Here is the Wikipedia page that explains brushing, and here is a news article from Forbes about the scheme. Receiving packages as part of brushing doesn't meant that your private information is compromised, and you don't need to do anything.

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6 minutes ago, Squee said:

That rigth there is a scam.
The scammer is creating and shipping out fake orders in order to both boost order numbers and place false verified reviews. The country most commonly associated with brushing is China, but packages may also come from other countries. Here is the Wikipedia page that explains brushing, and here is a news article from Forbes about the scheme. Receiving packages as part of brushing doesn't meant that your private information is compromised, and you don't need to do anything.

I liked the idea the seeds might grow into giant flesh eating mutants but yeah, you're probably right

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5 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Man, every country conducts espionage. Including Germany and every other EU nation. They all do it to the full extent of their capacity and capability to do so. 

Your own media landscape is owned by a select few groups (Bertelsmann and Springer?), so that’s not a unique thing to criticize America about. I do agree that their two-party system is in drastic need of reform. 

I guess my point is don’t conflate what the media reports with the reality on the ground in the country. Even the student loan crisis in the US is all too easily misrepresented. Misuse of averages, short-termism, etc. These all affect public perception, which can impact public policy making. 
 

As to your comments about “small talk” in Canada, all I can say is come visit. I’ve got a spare room in my bourgeois mansion. 
 

Thanks for the friendly invitation. Don't be too surprised if I actually accept it at some point, lol

 

5 hours ago, cwmbrancity said:

When my brother worked in Eindhoven we’d go out drinking with his mates. Nothing too rowdy. Anyway, on a few occasions we’d ask someone for a light for a cig and they’d reply “no, fuck off please”. Rude politeness personified. 

2-Table1-1.thumb.png.4cc04370d1dc7316730919b418ca6ac8.png

... etc., dad humour, but I'm sure that has some merit and can be retranslated the other way around.

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8 hours ago, dingformung said:

Thanks for the friendly invitation. Don't be too surprised if I actually accept it at some point, lol

Please do! I always like to meet WATMMers in person.

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US on a massive diet. I guess the fight against obesity is the best approach to fight the corona virus...:trap:

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