How does the World view America these days?

[chenGOD]

Just now, Braintree said:

They shouldn't be framing this the way they did.

 

My dude, they aren’t framing shit. They are reporting the facts as they have them to this point.  
The comment about “having a bad day” was reprehensible, but they’re not saying “well he said he didn’t do it, that’s it case closed”. They have explicitly said the investigation will continue, to further uncover evidence which may or may not lead to a hate crime sentence being tacked on. 
Apparently the suspect has some anti-Asian material posted on his social media accounts, which may provide more context.
 

However, the below may provoke more thought.
 

Question: how many white sex workers are there in massage parlours in Atlanta? If this guy had been going to these massage parlours for a couple of years, and there are no white girls working in similar establishments, then I’d say the racial element probably stemmed from fetishization of Asian women, combined with significant mental health issues about relationships. Add those together with the fact that he bought the gun on the same day, and it becomes a little more nuanced. 

[chenGOD]

5 minutes ago, ignatius said:

people will always complain. police should be used to it "we don't have information on that yet. investigation is ongoing. we don't want to speculate" etc etc.. 

listen to the question the cop is responding to.

https://youtu.be/6e_3GK052pk

 

[Braintree]

1 minute ago, chenGOD said:

My dude, they aren’t framing shit. They are reporting the facts as they have them to this point.  
The comment about “having a bad day” was reprehensible, but they’re not saying “well he said he didn’t do it, that’s it case closed”. They have explicitly said the investigation will continue, to further uncover evidence which may or may not lead to a hate crime sentence being tacked on. 
Apparently the suspect has some anti-Asian material posted on his social media accounts, which may provide more context.
 

However, the below may provoke more thought.
 

Question: how many white sex workers are there in massage parlours in Atlanta? If this guy had been going to these massage parlours for a couple of years, and there are no white girls working in similar establishments, then I’d say the racial element probably stemmed from fetishization of Asian women, combined with significant mental health issues about relationships. Add those together with the fact that he bought the gun on the same day, and it becomes a little more nuanced. 

The facts, again, weren't the problem. Don't start a straw man here. The police do not have to give any statement about him being a sex addict or anything. They don't have to comment on that at all. Kind of odd since it doesn't have anything to do with the events that occurred. This looks explicitly like framing the conversation, especially considering charges haven't been filed yet.

Also, I seriously think that a white guy that drives that far, and to several locations, to kill women who are mostly Asian makes this look like a race related crime. LIke....fucking obviously.

The bastion of American journalism is even jumping on that narrative: https://www.foxnews.com/us/atlanta-shooting-suspect-robert-long-rehab-sex-addiction-former-roommates

[ignatius]

10 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

listen to the question the cop is responding to.

https://youtu.be/6e_3GK052pk

 

yeah. and the cop does sound a bit flabbergasted at those phrases... i get that. he did attribute the phrases to the shooter.. but imo i don't think he should've said anything. "it's early and we don't want characterize his motives in any way or speculate"

it's not surprising really.. that it went the way it went.  even though this kind of shit seems to happen often enough in america i don't think any cop expects to have to talk about it in front of cameras. 

some people are savy about all these things and that's something that comes w/experience. i think this cop should have dodged the questions is all i'm saying. there's no rule that says he has to answer the question. 

by repeating the shooter's words it creates a narrative that all the media jumps on and niche electronic music forums have to chew on it instead of talking about bitcoin NFT art deals. 

[chenGOD]

5 minutes ago, Braintree said:

he police do not have to give any statement about him being a sex addict or anything.

Listen to the question the cops are responding to. Video posted above. 
 

5 minutes ago, Braintree said:

I seriously think that a white guy that drives that far, and to several locations, to kill women who are mostly Asian makes this look like a race related crime. LIke....fucking obviously.

Luckily, justice doesn’t rely on what people in the streets think, otherwise the incidence of minorities in jail in America would be even higher. 

[ignatius]

23 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Question: how many white sex workers are there in massage parlours in Atlanta?

1417 

[Braintree]

Just now, chenGOD said:

Listen to the question the cops are responding to. Video posted above.

Who mentioned the "addiction" first?

[chenGOD]

4 minutes ago, ignatius said:

i don't think any cop expects to have to talk about it in front of cameras. 

This particular cop happens to be one of the Atlanta PD comms people, so it’s kind of his job. 
Again, the cop repeats twice that it’s the suspect who claims it, and then states and reiterates that the investigation is not done. 

[Braintree]

It sounds like she's asking a question about something he mentioned beforehand.

[chenGOD]

6 minutes ago, Braintree said:

Who mentioned the "addiction" first?

The reporter. In the clip I posted at least. However it does appear that the chief of police (not this cop) may have said addiction in a previous press conference, where they discuss interviewing the suspect with the FBI, and the mayor of Atlanta (a black woman) also says it is too early to tell. 

Also, if it was purely racially motivated, then why were two non-Asians killed?

 
 

 

[ignatius]

3 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

This particular cop happens to be one of the Atlanta PD comms people, so it’s kind of his job. 
Again, the cop repeats twice that it’s the suspect who claims it, and then states and reiterates that the investigation is not done. 

is he the guy who is being removed for the alleged racist asian/corona virus posts on facebook? 

i think he fucked up but i think other people would have too. i mean.. every word is going to be picked apart. It's almost impossible to not step in shit. Best to run in place. being vague, dodging the question.. seems the best way to avoid all the hyper focused lens on every word. even saying "this is what he claimed".. idk man.. i don't think i'd want to make the case for him by putting that out there. let some facts settle etc. 

but that's my opinion. he's probably wondering "WTF did i say? why are people so upset? doesn't context matter? those aren't my words they are his" etc.. 

but once it's out it's out. 

[Braintree]

1 minute ago, chenGOD said:

The reporter. 

First of all, that's a weird question without prompt. Second of all, since it's a speculative element of an ongoing investigation, he doesn't have to answer it. There is no motive at this time.

Here, let me edit that. Here's what he should have said:

Quote

This is an ongoing investigation. There is no clear motive at this time, so we can't speculate on that.

 

11 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Also, if it was purely racially motivated, then why were two non-Asians killed? 

Because they were there. Murder is messy.

[chenGOD]

So you think in a pointed question about his addiction, where police had previously mentioned that, the responder should have backtracked on already publicly available information. 
 

So the other two murdered because they were there. Where were they exactly? In massage parlours. 
Let’s reframe it. If it were strictly racially motivated, why didn’t the suspect go to the nearest Asian grocer? 

[usagi]

he killed a bunch of Asians, that's all you need to know. all this equivocating and masturbating about the how and why doesn't erase that fact. I could just as easily ask you a similarly stupid question like "if he wasn't racist and just wanted to kill bc horny, why didn't he go shoot up people indiscriminately in a sex club?" it's irrelevant.

Edited March 19, 2021 by usagi

[ignatius]

8 minutes ago, usagi said:

he killed a bunch of Asians, that's all you need to know. all this equivocating and masturbating about the how and why doesn't erase that fact. I could just as easily ask you a similarly stupid question like "if he wasn't racist and just wanted to kill bc horny, why didn't he go shoot up people indiscriminately in a sex club?" it's irrelevant.

oh god. "bc horny".. there's probably already a "bonk go to horny jail" meme w/this guy's face. 

regarding the victims, some of them were customers. there's some info here:

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/18/978742409/what-we-know-about-the-victims-of-the-atlanta-area-shootings

Quote

 

Four people were killed in the shooting at Youngs Asian Massage in Acworth, Ga., the Cherokee County Sheriff's Office said on Wednesday. They have been identified as Delaina Ashley Yaun, Paul Andre Michels, Xiaojie Tan and Daoyou Feng. The sole survivor, Elcias R. Hernandez-Ortiz, remains hospitalized with injuries.

Police in Atlanta have not yet named the four female victims of the shootings in that city, which targeted two spas across the street from each other. An Atlanta Police Department incident report indicated three of the women were between 52 and 75 years of age. Police were unable to determine a date of birth for the fourth victim. 

An APD incident report listed fatal gunshot wounds as the cause of death for all four victims. South Korea's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said on Wednesday that four of those killed in Tuesday's attacks were of Korean descent, The Korea Herald reports.

As the nation mourns and calls for change, details are beginning to emerge about some of the victims of Tuesday's attacks. NPR will update this page as more information about the victims becomes available.

Delaina Yaun, 33, of Acworth, Ga. 

Yaun and her husband, Mario Gonzalez, were getting a couples massage after work on Tuesday at Youngs Asian Massage when the attack started, family members told Fox 5in Atlanta. They were first-time customers of the establishment.

Gonzalez, who reportedly was able to make it out of the spa safely, told an Atlanta CBS affiliate that he and his wife were in separate rooms when the shooting started.

 

 

[usagi]

still  u chendawg btw, that was a bit of a harsh post.

[ignatius]

44 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

So you think in a pointed question about his addiction, where police had previously mentioned that, the responder should have backtracked on already publicly available information. 
 

So the other two murdered because they were there. Where were they exactly? In massage parlours. 
Let’s reframe it. If it were strictly racially motivated, why didn’t the suspect go to the nearest Asian grocer? 

maybe he is more familiar w/the massage places? perhaps there's some pragmatism in his brain. as a shooter maybe he had a plan.  he hit a few locations and was en route to florida when they caught him. 

what makes up his particular psychology isn't a thing we're going to sort out here. sexual compulsive behavior linked to racism or racism linked to sexual compulsions rooted in some weird shit that happened to him when he was a kid to make him hate asians? who knows...  let the court appointed headshrinker evaluate him pre-trial and let the DA bring charges or whatever the process is. 

 

[Braintree]

57 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

So you think in a pointed question about his addiction, where police had previously mentioned that, the responder should have backtracked on already publicly available information. 
 

So the other two murdered because they were there. Where were they exactly? In massage parlours. 
Let’s reframe it. If it were strictly racially motivated, why didn’t the suspect go to the nearest Asian grocer? 

 

51 minutes ago, usagi said:

 it's irrelevant.

 

[usagi]

37 minutes ago, ignatius said:

oh god. "bc horny".. there's probably already a "bonk go to horny jail" meme w/this guy's face. 

quick google reveals nothing, this is prime territory you've stumbled upon. do the first meme and NFT it for large monies.

[ignatius]

9 minutes ago, usagi said:

quick google reveals nothing, this is prime territory you've stumbled upon. do the first meme and NFT it for large monies.

i think my heart would fall out.  torso would just open up and heart fall out like a meatball. 

[Braintree]

lol

[chenGOD]

2 hours ago, usagi said:

he killed a bunch of Asians, that's all you need to know. all this equivocating and masturbating about the how and why doesn't erase that fact. I could just as easily ask you a similarly stupid question like "if he wasn't racist and just wanted to kill bc horny, why didn't he go shoot up people indiscriminately in a sex club?" it's irrelevant.

He killed a bunch of Asians because they worked at the massage parlours that he frequented and knew? So how is that irrelevant? You’re going to tell me that a guy who knew these places (he’d frequented them before) probably had armed protection (criminals like to protect their business operations) chose them when he could have easily gone into the Chinatown or Koreatown and let loose on the streets?

@ignatiussaid it: let the courts determine it on the basis of facts. 

Bringing it back to the original discussion - the police responded to the question based on the available facts.  It was in response to a question about the suspect’s addiction, which had been previously revealed by the chief of police for that department (not Atlanta police department).

Is it a heinous crime? Of course it is. The guy deserves the life sentences he is getting. Is it racially motivated? Nobody knows right now. Jumping to conclusions is the opposite of how a justice system is supposed to work, and the goal needs to be removing those types of presumptions for all cases. The real issue that needs to be raised is that this same standard (not jumping to conclusions) needs to be applied more rigorously with cases involving people of colour. 
 

As well no one up in here talking bout how easy it was for the suspect to legally obtain a gun the day of. That’s more of an issue in my eyes, cause I’m a cracker, I guess.

I’ll happily eat my words if it is a hate crime (and to be honest I think race did play a part, probably through the suspect’s fetishization of Asian women), but this mob mentality of determining issues on circumstantial evidence, and demanding the police say what people want to hear instead of the facts as they know them, is dangerous territory. 
 

[usagi]

I don't know what you're saying with that armed protection comment. also I don't care all that much if this is or isn't classified as a hate crime or a racially motivated crime by the authorities, they're always two steps behind whatever is actually happening. I am arguing that that official determination is largely irrelevant to the bottom line, which is the fact that he killed a bunch of Asian people, a vulnerable minority. you can argue that the intent might not have been racist but the act itself plays into those good old racial realities we talked about previously. these sorts of acts breed copycats who will continue to target those they deem vulnerable unless cops do their jobs and stop downplaying the threat. law enforcement should be interested in preventing vulnerable minorities from being targeted by insane young white men with guns, without needing to be experts on race relations as a prerequisite.

Edited March 19, 2021 by usagi

[dingformung]

2 hours ago, chenGOD said:

I’ll happily eat my words if it is a hate crime (and to be honest I think race did play a part, probably through the suspect’s fetishization of Asian women), but this mob mentality of determining issues on circumstantial evidence, and demanding the police say what people want to hear instead of the facts as they know them, is dangerous territory. 

So you think killing a bunch of Asian women is not indicative for this crime to be racially motivated but him having a fetish for Asian women is?

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by dingformung

[chenGOD]

4 hours ago, usagi said:

law enforcement should be interested in preventing vulnerable minorities from being targeted by insane young white men with guns, without needing to be experts on race relations as a prerequisite.

Of course they should. Although I’m not sure law enforcement could have done much to prevent this particular tragedy if the timeline as I understand it is correct, which is, the suspect lost his mind, went out and bought a gun with no waiting period, and then, on the same day, went on to commit 8 murders within the span of 45 minutes... 

I’m not sure how you expect police to do much in situations like this when guns are so readily available in the states.