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How does the World view America these days?


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Hey just gonna drop in here because it’s getting tense and I know we all know capitalist whizz-boy Bill Gates is getting a divorce.   I wanted to let everyone know I am going to continue to get

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8 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

 regulations upon capitalism will always fail to uphold supposed inalienable rights

why?

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12 minutes ago, ignatius said:

why?

because the nature of capitalism is that of competition between organizations, favoring, due to economies of scale, the larger organizations.  this results in a centralization of wealth.  this centralization of wealth creates perverse incentives whereby the private owners of these centralized and immense capitals hold leverage over the very regulatory bodies they are supposed to be regulating.  this, combined with the fact that this private ownership of these capitals, i.e. the means of production, gives those who works upon the means of production limited means of living a life outside the wage labor system for the vast majority of people, a limited capacity to exert political influences upon the organs of the state.  this limited capacity is further paired with limited class consciousness due to indoctrination within the educational system itself with the individualist ideology of capitalism, limiting not just the capability to use political action to represent their class, but also limiting the knowledge that this is even an option, and creating division within their class, which lies in stark contrast to the deep class consciousness of the bourgeoisie who have generations of social structures and cultural institutions to draw upon in conspiring how to maintain power for their class, and indeed they succeed given that this class of the bourgeois reproduces itself.  why is it that the people themselves have not built into the means of production a way to make sure it is workable by themselves without the need for private owners of it, ending this feedback loop of capital exerting control over humanity? because they have not achieved socialism yet.  so that is the task we find ourselves within and the one over which so many people have pondered what is to be done.  With a but of observation, one can't help but observe the limited number of paths that exist and which have historical precedent of working, namely Marxism-Leninism

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oh man

so much ideology here.

don't forget that we are just animals aware of our imminent demise, we are subject to stupid things like greed and malice.

honestly, what is most harmful, especially in the USA  is that we have abstracted everything beyond comprehension.

the system of capitalism requires exploitation at the bottom layer, much like serfdom, and slave driven economies--

we've just off-shored our slavery, you know? all for this ridiculous consumer culture.

soon enough we will see real corporate dystopian slavery when amazon.com owns everything

try to remember that some part of the computer you are typing on has a good chance of being put together by a raped minority in an east asian country. the british exported their model to the whole fucking world, and the US was their superstar that broke away.

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so far, all systems have hierarchies or move towards them. 

are we a collective? are we individuals? does it even matter? should i read up on theory of the leisure class? or just get on board w/the idea that it's a brutal model for the "lower classes" to try to emulate?

what good will any of it do.

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ideology gay

 

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13 minutes ago, ignatius said:

so far, all systems have hierarchies or move towards them. 

are we a collective? are we individuals? does it even matter? should i read up on theory of the leisure class? or just get on board w/the idea that it's a brutal model for the "lower classes" to try to emulate?

what good will any of it do.

 

this is bourgeois propaganda, it's entirely possible to create systems which are stably decentralized it just takes work.  convenient that those at the top say "there must always be someone at the top, just live your life and let it be us".  they are at the top because of class conflict they inflict upon us preventing us from preventing them from exploiting us.

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20 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

this is bourgeois propaganda, it's entirely possible to create systems which are stably decentralized it just takes work.  convenient that those at the top say "there must always be someone at the top, just live your life and let it be us".  they are at the top because of class conflict they inflict upon us preventing us from preventing them from exploiting us.

40d.jpg

 

Edited by ignatius
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8 minutes ago, Rubin Farr said:

And the award for the tiniest soup bowl we found on a dining room table goes to...

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/rick-scott-trump-tiny-bowl-020159290.html

FE8F6484-8383-44C3-9C79-FD5C0050A239.jpeg

rick scott is a huge piece of shit. if you do a bit of googling about the healthcare company he ran and medicare fraud you'll find during his tenure as CEO he made it policy to overbill medicare at every level.. big big dollars of fraud. 

soon after he became governor of florida where he bragged about making it so difficult for people to get unemployment that he lowered the number of people getting the benefit to 69,000 for the entire state. not by creating jobs.. just making it really difficult to apply for benefits.  he's a giant succubus. the list of dirty deals and regulatory fuckery is long. 

 

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On 4/12/2021 at 10:57 PM, cyanobacteria said:

this results in a centralization of wealth

I think history shows that the centralization of wealth award goes to a political party other than capitalism. It might make the top 10?

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6 hours ago, Rubin Farr said:

Mike Lindell is now selling children’s’ books, along with crap like “Freedom Coffee”

https://www.mypillow.com/mystore#

 

6562ED2D-2140-4812-BD08-0D4629AE81B1.jpeg

10E192C8-5AEA-42F7-87AE-919E9036AC77.jpeg

looks like 'donald the caveman' is a trilogy of classic children's stories- thought curiously, only two out the three are "based on a true story"

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3 hours ago, Satans Little Helper said:

Capitalism....take note of the rant in the first minute

 

 

nice... yeah the 'can't recognize the legitimacy of others' narratives + so can't have a productive conversation' is very key to interacting with some people on this forum. :whistling:

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"you learn something new everyday" happening in real time

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4 hours ago, Satans Little Helper said:

Capitalism....take note of the rant in the first minute

 

 

"You didn't know about Stalin" Ha!

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59 minutes ago, auxien said:

nice... yeah the 'can't recognize the legitimacy of others' narratives + so can't have a productive conversation' is very key to interacting with some people on this forum. :whistling:

That's not only a problem on this forum but everywhere capitalism vs. socialism debates happen. And I dare to say that failing to recognize the legitimacy of others' narrative can more often be attributed to people advocating (free, liberal) capitalism than it is to the people advocating socialism. Or maybe instead of socialists I should say people who want to bring some sort of natural balance. Capitalism has this inertia that doesn't like to take anything else into their accounts but checks and balances. Hence there must be some sort of regulation. Unfortunately, because the capitalists own the initiative and wield more immediate power, more often than not, their will is imposed onto labor, with the latter coming up with regulations with a distinct time lag, and with an obvious struggle to be heard and taken seriously.

Now the capitalist wants to separate himself from this struggle by investing into robotics and AI.

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12 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

That's not only a problem on this forum but everywhere capitalism vs. socialism debates happen. And I dare to say that failing to recognize the legitimacy of others' narrative can more often be attributed to people advocating (free, liberal) capitalism than it is to the people advocating socialism. Or maybe instead of socialists I should say people who want to bring some sort of natural balance. Capitalism has this inertia that doesn't like to take anything else into their accounts but checks and balances. Hence there must be some sort of regulation. Unfortunately, because the capitalists own the initiative and wield more immediate power, more often than not, their will is imposed onto labor, with the latter coming up with regulations with a distinct time lag, and with an obvious struggle to be heard and taken seriously.

Now the capitalist wants to separate himself from this struggle by investing into robotics and AI.

capitalism is a cancer, a biomechanical process into which humanity is sucked, a process which produces for itself the organs of reproduction the same as biological life - consumption of resources, processing of resources, outputting of processed resources for its own use, the convincing of its constituent biological parts to take part in its body, similar to single celled organisms being assimilated into multi-celled organisms, except unwillingly, and more similar to the imprisonment of mitochondria, due to what is currently seemingly a symbiotic relationship, but in reality an exploitative relationship as the surplus value of everyone's labor is utilized for ends not suiting the needs of the individual - it's a dead end, a plateau and a local optimization, not the ideal end state, which we can all see and put our thoughts on but for which the road to achieving it is... extremely fucking arduous.  the brainwashing of people into this system is literally heartbreaking to see

the lack of capacity to envision a different future and an alternative to present systems is not just caused by the cultural hegemony of capitalism, or by a lack of systems level thinking capabilities, but a lack of self respect. these people have settled for being wage slaves, a form of labor the early american slavery abolitionists wished to abolish alongside chattel slavery.  due to the lack of thinking of the system in the proper way even this terminology seems absurd to them.  their cage has good food and freedom to walk around, but they are not free, and what freedom they have relies upon the destitution of third world laborers.  no, it is rather the case that their lack of capacity to envision that brighter communist future is a lack of will and an acceptance not just of their own deplorable situation, but an acceptance as being a willing accomplice in western imperialism and exploitation of the third world.  at some point responsibility must be taken rather than moralizing upon the poor brainwashed western capitalists and imperial consumerist upholders of the narrative of that capitalism. 

time after time I am disappointed as seemingly intelligent people claim that the system invented hundreds of years ago for the benefit of one class, is not only the best we can do now, but the best we will ever do - a perfect system which requires no upheavals and no fundamental redesigns.  this is no ideology but rather a religion

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I want to say that instead of seeing classes as levels which are above or below each other, we should see classes as parallels. The only reason the capitalist has this power buffer is because not all people with comparable intellectual prowess have the same interest in owning and running companies. Some want to be artists, other scientists/researchers... But because the capitalist dictates the "trend" (this is not a natural way) those fall below them. Which allows the capitalist to trojan-horse himself towards more and more power, now also dictating the value of people and their professions, also dictating the discourse. It's like having a moderator that only allows people to talk about oranges, and how growing oranges is above everything. But there are people with the same level of competence that like pears, grapes, apples, etc. Are those people worth less? They are not. But because the capitalist moderates the discussion, he only allows oranges to be seen as the only way to go. And everybody else is seen as sub-par.

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2 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

That's not only a problem on this forum but everywhere capitalism vs. socialism debates happen. And I dare to say that failing to recognize the legitimacy of others' narrative can more often be attributed to people advocating (free, liberal) capitalism than it is to the people advocating socialism. Or maybe instead of socialists I should say people who want to bring some sort of natural balance. Capitalism has this inertia that doesn't like to take anything else into their accounts but checks and balances. Hence there must be some sort of regulation. Unfortunately, because the capitalists own the initiative and wield more immediate power, more often than not, their will is imposed onto labor, with the latter coming up with regulations with a distinct time lag, and with an obvious struggle to be heard and taken seriously.

Now the capitalist wants to separate himself from this struggle by investing into robotics and AI.

Fair. Although I do like to add there is no "the capitalist". Or "the socialist", for that matter. Western Europe tends to have different ideas about capitalism than, say, the US. Or Britain even. So I think these generalisations distort discussions like these. Or in other words, the different narratives become unmovable stereotypes and discussions become pointless. Because without any movement, what's the point of having a discussion? In my experience, I get the impression these discussions mostly reflect the frustrations about US politics and the apparent inability to act on its social issues. And while those problems are real, the capitalism vs. socialism actually seem to obfuscate the actual issues and its solutions. It becomes some sort of half philosophical, half religious discussion on moral values with no end. Or worse, with an end where the other side of the argument is deemed immoral. 

sigh... rant out.. :whistling:

Also, that crash course vid was pretty dense. Even if it's supposed to be made for kids.

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3 minutes ago, Satans Little Helper said:

Fair. Although I do like to add there is no "the capitalist". Or "the socialist", for that matter. Western Europe tends to have different ideas about capitalism than, say, the US. Or Britain even. So I think these generalisations distort discussions like these. Or in other words, the different narratives become unmovable stereotypes and discussions become pointless. Because without any movement, what's the point of having a discussion? In my experience, I get the impression these discussions mostly reflect the frustrations about US politics and the apparent inability to act on its social issues. And while those problems are real, the capitalism vs. socialism actually seem to obfuscate the actual issues and its solutions. It becomes some sort of half philosophical, half religious discussion on moral values with no end. Or worse, with an end where the other side of the argument is deemed immoral. 

sigh... rant out.. :whistling:

Also, that crash course vid was pretty dense. Even if it's supposed to be made for kids.

I agree: I used "the capitalist" and "the socialist" in order to hitch on the narrative of that video (and auxien's response) and get my point across using these analogies, because I believe those simplifications are adequate to recognize two distinct societal vectors, but because of the broadness of the subject (problem), I agree, it is an oversimplification. Hence I said "Or maybe instead of socialists I should say people who want to bring some sort of natural balance". This is where I fall in.

 

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42 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

That's not only a problem on this forum but everywhere capitalism vs. socialism debates happen. And I dare to say that failing to recognize the legitimacy of others' narrative can more often be attributed to people advocating (free, liberal) capitalism than it is to the people advocating socialism. Or maybe instead of socialists I should say people who want to bring some sort of natural balance.

well i was really implying that particular sentiment to extend far beyond just the political discussions, but it's obv very relevant there and re: entirely different systems of society (capitalism vs communism vs socialism vs etc). uneducated people of any system are likely going to be very much in that 'failing to recognize others' narrative' camp....the US is full of a lot of uneducated people right now, so there's plenty of idiot Americans pointing guns in the air yelling CAPITALISM RULEZ! (metaphorically and literally, i'm sure). 

that's the thing...all comers here think they're bringing a 'natural balance' to things....they just see the 'natural' in differing ways....because nature and natural ways are very complex and often contradictory. ultimately there is no 'one right way' and anyone espousing that is an idiot.

42 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

Capitalism has this inertia that doesn't like to take anything else into their accounts but checks and balances. Hence there must be some sort of regulation. Unfortunately, because the capitalists own the initiative and wield more immediate power, more often than not, their will is imposed onto labor, with the latter coming up with regulations with a distinct time lag, and with an obvious struggle to be heard and taken seriously.

Now the capitalist wants to separate himself from this struggle by investing into robotics and AI.

all very true. as is the following, nothing to add but just saying, yeah. good summary:

32 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

I want to say that instead of seeing classes as levels which are above or below each other, we should see classes as parallels. The only reason the capitalist has this power buffer is because not all people with comparable intellectual prowess have the same interest in owning and running companies. Some want to be artists, other scientists/researchers... But because the capitalist dictates the "trend" (this is not a natural way) those fall below them. Which allows the capitalist to trojan-horse himself towards more and more power, now also dictating the value of people and their professions, also dictating the discourse. It's like having a moderator that only allows people to talk about oranges, and how growing oranges is above everything. But there are people with the same level of competence that like pears, grapes, apples, etc. Are those people worth less? They are not. But because the capitalist moderates the discussion, he only allows oranges to be seen as the only way to go. And everybody else is seen as sub-par.

 

34 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

the brainwashing of people is literally heartbreaking to see

this is very true, whatever they're being brainwashed into.

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