How does the World view America these days?

[Braintree]

44 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Question: How do you deal with the meth epidemic? Criminalizing drugs obviously not the answer, but you know, meth is one of those things where you kind of take the ol' drugs r bad mmmkay approach. I'm sure some of it can be apportioned to poverty/lack of economic activity, but I gotta figure that some of it is just - meth feels pretty fucking good.

Many clinicians would say that you should admit them for health reasons and treat the underlying problems that cause addiction.

[usagi]

1 hour ago, chenGOD said:

Question: How do you deal with the meth epidemic? Criminalizing drugs obviously not the answer, but you know, meth is one of those things where you kind of take the ol' drugs r bad mmmkay approach. I'm sure some of it can be apportioned to poverty/lack of economic activity, but I gotta figure that some of it is just - meth feels pretty fucking good.

I have a caze-inspired idea: offer meth-heads work for meth instead of money. productivity will soar across the economy as worthless junkies are finally incentivised to work for effectively no pay and to terms they can't say no to. bonus: they will die from overwork or ODing and thus help reduce the burden on healthcare and aged care.

[zero]

18 minutes ago, Braintree said:

Many clinicians would say that you should admit them for health reasons and treat the underlying problems that cause addiction.

probably so. but realistically the amount of time, money, and effort to do that for all meth heads would be massive. and even then, you'd get dudes relapsing, and therefore all that effort is totally negated. again, I do not have the answer as to how to solve this, but I'd imagine some sort of cheap, fast medicinal concoction that science can come up, which causes physical symptoms forcing people permanently off meth, is what should be explored.

[auxien]

40 minutes ago, markedone said:

I just moved from Mexico City back to downtown Seattle (i'm from this area originally). In some ways it felt like moving to baghdad or something - the sidewalks and bike lanes are littered with glass here, and encampments and passing needles on the street are a daily occurance.  Mexico City could at least pay people to sweep the streets and keep the city put together on a day-to-day basis.  Not that menial jobs are the solution, but I feel like easy-entry work to get people to at least feel like members of society (along with of course free physical and mental healthcare) would go a long way.

be careful, someone (i think a non-US citizen) got very upset in a recent thread when some person/s dared to compare the US to anything less than the shining bastion of democratic capitalistic perfection.

[Braintree]

17 minutes ago, zero said:

probably so. but realistically the amount of time, money, and effort to do that for all meth heads would be massive. and even then, you'd get dudes relapsing, and therefore all that effort is totally negated. again, I do not have the answer as to how to solve this, but I'd imagine some sort of cheap, fast medicinal concoction that science can come up, which causes physical symptoms forcing people permanently off meth, is what should be explored.

A substantial amount of people relapsing is because of criminalization itself. It will definitely take a long time, but using Portugal as an example, it can show positive effects fairly quickly (obviously, the North American population is much larger than Portugal). It just takes a serious investment from the government in public health care, poverty, and education.

[chenGOD]

2 hours ago, BobDobalina said:

I realize its not meth, but my close friend's younger brother died of a fentanyl OD a few years ago.  Only reason he had fentanyl was b/c he couldn't get heroin, only reason he got on heroin was b/c he couldn't get prescription opiates.  The prescribing of opioids (e.g. your oxycontins) by doctors *who are supposed to have your best interests in mind* IS the fucking gateway drug.  Now again I don't have an answer per se but I have to imagine dropping the entire Sackler family into an active volcano would be a good start.

I wanted to avoid the opioid crisis, cause that's a different ball game altogether, and the pharma companies and doctors have a lot of blame there. But that is especially fucked.

24 minutes ago, auxien said:

be careful, someone (i think a non-US citizen) got very upset in a recent thread when some person/s dared to compare the US to anything less than the shining bastion of democratic capitalistic perfection.

Oh you scamp

Spoiler

(psst in 2018, Mexico had roughly double the number of total homicides compared to the US, with a rate per 100K inhabitants six times higher)

 

[ignatius]

5 minutes ago, Braintree said:

A substantial amount of people relapsing is because of criminalization itself. It will definitely take a long time, but using Portugal as an example, it can show positive effects fairly quickly (obviously, the North American population is much larger than Portugal). It just takes a serious investment from the government in public health care, poverty, and education.

the relapse, re-arrest, re-imprisoned just doubles down the poverty cycles as well. portland and all of oregon i guess has decriminalized drugs. we'll see how it goes. gonna be a bumpy ride at the start i'm sure as all the things to make it work aren't really in place yet but that's the way things go in america usually. the change happens then we figure out how to make it work. so, progress lags behind the actual legal mechanics of a thing sometimes. it'll help clear the courts of small time possession cases and nuisance type arrests and shift some of that to mental health care and whatever services/programs exist in the non-profit world as well as state run things and partnerships. 

 

[ignatius]

2 hours ago, BobDobalina said:

Now again I don't have an answer per se but I have to imagine dropping the entire Sackler family into an active volcano would be a good start.

there's some good coverage of the sacklers in the adam curtis recent doc series. i was unaware that the elder sackler had created valium and marketed it in much the same way they did the oxy.  it's an interesting thread to pull and adam curtis does a pretty good job of it in a general overview kind of way as well as a direct approach of pointing the finger pretty strongly at the sackler family

Edited April 21, 2021 by ignatius

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, Braintree said:

Many clinicians would say that you should admit them for health reasons and treat the underlying problems that cause addiction.

This is admirable, but often times the cause of addiction with meth is the actual drug. Again, I'm not saying they should be criminalized, far from it - many drugs that are currently scheduled should be legalized federally - marijuana, psilocybin, LSD, even heroin. On the other hand, I'm not sure if legalizing meth is a good option. Decrim definitely though.

[BobDobalina]

16 minutes ago, ignatius said:

there's some good coverage of the sacklers in the adam curtis recent doc series. i was unaware that the elder sackler had created valium and marketed it in much the same way they did the oxy.  it's an interesting thread to pull and adam curtis does a pretty good job of it in a general overview kind of way as well as a direct approach of pointing the finger pretty strongly at the sackler family

Yeah, I watched most of it (at least the first 3 installments anyway) and the fact that they were behind valium was new to me as well.  Special hi-chair in hell for all the human suffering they wrought.

[Braintree]

17 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

This is admirable, but often times the cause of addiction with meth is the actual drug. Again, I'm not saying they should be criminalized, far from it - many drugs that are currently scheduled should be legalized federally - marijuana, psilocybin, LSD, even heroin. On the other hand, I'm not sure if legalizing meth is a good option. Decrim definitely though.

It's actually very debatable as to what causes addiction in the first place. A lot of psychologists and clinicians often say that it's the environment that facilitates the desire and delivery of the drug rather than strictly the drug. It's tangential evidence, but I've known a few people that smoked meth semi-regularly that never got addicted to it.

And yeah, I think drugs in general should be decriminalized, but as to the legality of methamphetamines, they're not 100% illegal in the United States already (they are in Canada): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_methamphetamine

Making it illegal doesn't exactly make it go away. When it comes to drugs, the subject is highly intersectional.

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, Audioblysk said:

As cliche as this may be for me of all people to offer as a solution - legalizing cannabis and psychedelics and destigmatizing their legitimate therapeutic potential could help. 

I've always said that two things keep the gun out of my mouth. Meaningful experiences and a sense of purpose. Some people don't have one or the other, a sad lot of folks don't have either. (stoner thought) I think drugs fill the void of the complete lack of spiritual/personal fulfillment inherent in the soul-crushing reality of constant work, debt, strife and no light at the end of the tunnel. Too easy to blame it on people who are addicted IMO. 

 

PS. Missed you, chen

Fully agree on both points man, and it's never my intention to blame it on addicts - I would urge more resources to help them deal with the consequences of their addiction, and how to deal with living with addiction (my understanding is that addiction doesn't really go away, but one can learn to manage it).

 

Miss you as well - I'm not in the PNW anymore, but who knows, we might be able to meet up in the east coast. I wanna hit up DEMF again the next time it's happening!

[zlemflolia]

it's no coincidence that people with healthy stable home lives don't generally turn to hard drugs as much as others. this correlates to economic health. it's also no coincidence that when the drugs are not produced at all these is no usage, and the places they are produced are unstable regions where gangs are capable of taking over because the people have no power.  luckily it seems Peruvian presidential candidate Pedro Castillo, the Marxist-Leninist socialist, seems to be winning his race

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/peru-pollster-puts-socialist-castillo-ahead-going-into-june-run-off-2021-04-19/

if he wins, this will do wonders as the economic life of the Peruvian people is put into their own hands through this revolutionary socialist vanguard party, unless of course the US interferes and murders him or attempts to destabilize the region further and install a capitalist shill, which will put the old coca production pipelines back into feasibility again.  let's hope to God he wins

[chenGOD]

20 minutes ago, Braintree said:

t's actually very debatable as to what causes addiction in the first place. A lot of psychologists and clinicians often say that it's the environment that facilitates the desire and delivery of the drug rather than strictly the drug. It's tangential evidence, but I've known a few people that smoked meth semi-regularly that never got addicted to it.

And yeah, I think drugs in general should be decriminalized, but as to the legality of methamphetamines, they're not 100% illegal in the United States already (they are in Canada): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_methamphetamine

Making it illegal doesn't exactly make it go away.

Yeah, I'm not a clinical psychologist - I'm just going off personal experience with addicts and academic reading. I'm pretty sympathetic to the environmental causes of addiction, and likely agree that in many cases that is the driving factor. I've just known some pretty normal people who did not come from a background that is typical of addiction-seeking behaviour (poverty/abusive/traumatic) get hooked on meth and turn into unrecognizable shells of themselves in a short time.

Interesting that they're not 100% illegal in the US - I didn't know that. I would have assumed that because pseudoephedrine is so highly regulated there (as opposed to Canada, where you can get products off the shelf with pseudoephedrine) that meth would be illegal.

Making it illegal pushes it into the shadows and makes it harder to deal with - I fully support decriminalization of personal possession of it/being high on it. I just don't know about granting it full legal status like should obviously be done with marijuana as one example.

[zlemflolia]

https://kawsachunnews.com/castillo-would-expel-worlds-main-drug-cartel-the-dea

[quote=Castillo]

“First, remove foreign intervention from Peru. The Congress, all of them, since the dictatorship until now, allow the entry of hundreds of U.S. soldiers and U.S. military advisers annually who walk through all the barracks of the country. Showing them techniques, in theory, of repression against the population. And that’s [agreed to by] the President and it’s been all of the Presidents, without exception (..) all of them have asked that people who represent the most bloodthirsty and cruel army in the history of humanity [come to Peru], after they massacre more than seven million people in the Middle East. We attend them, we let them enter our home and we put them in our barracks.”

“Would you expel the DEA?” asked Huertas. 

“Of course. The DEA is the main drug cartel in the world and any serious analyst on drug trafficking will tell you” responded Bermejo.

He continued, “The high command of police and army have been discredited here. I only ask that the issue of drug trafficking [not be ignored]. I challenge television networks to begin to dig into that matter because if they aren’t seizing one single aircraft in Peru, and there aren’t cartels like in Colombia and Mexico, then who is moving drugs in this country? Who has the ability to allow the entry of planes, load them, pay the money, and take the coca..”

Peru Libre’s candidate for President, Pedro Castillo, has run on a platform which promises to leave the Lima Cartel, expel USAID and close U.S. military bases within the first 100 days of government. Other proposals include nationalizations, a constituent assembly and the procurement of Cuban and Russian vaccines.[/quote]

mucho basado

Edited April 21, 2021 by cyanobacteria

[Nebraska]

this ma'khia bryant situation is about to go from worse to america real quick

[ignatius]

24 minutes ago, eassae said:

As someone who has practiced knife combat for many years and as someone who teaches knife combat and defense, I can say that if she did have a knife and was swinging it at another person there is a good chance that she could have murdered the other party involved.

yeah. knife is faster than gun from close range but he could've zapped her out w/a taser or instead of standing there yelling at her ran at her and smashed her arm with that long nightstick thing they carry.. or thrown her ass to the ground.. but it did all happen really fast.. but why not just a shot to the ass. that would've got her attention. 

my brother was a cop for 15 years starting in the 90s. his training was pretty extensive on how to subdue people and control them using those weird ass thumb grabs and wrist twists etc. even then they were trained to aim center mass when shooting at someone. they aren't trained to wound people. the reasoning was something like "suspect could be on PCP and wrestle your gun away and blah blah blah" or something along those lines. now it's even more intense in that vein. they always shoot to kill. that guy who goes around to police forces and gives talks and training about it.. it's fucked up and the entire line of thinking and training around it needs to change. 

my brother never had to draw his weapon on anyone thankfully. his dept was small and they focused on de-escalation.  lot's of domestic violence and the odd chase here or there. usually when the police were called it was because the adults didn't know how to be adults and someone had to show up and settle things and take a drunk idiot off to jail. 

anyway.. this is the still shot people are focusing on of the girl w/what appears to be a knife. the whole situation is fubar. people getting thrown to the ground and adults kicking people in the head who are the ground.. chaos. if you watch the footage there's a halfspeed version that shows the kife fall out of her hand when she hits the ground. the whole thing is fucked up and it's hard to imagine a cop squeezing off 4 rounds into a 13 year old. i hope someone interviews the girl in pink and gets her thoughts.  

 

[chenGOD]

49 minutes ago, ignatius said:

they aren't trained to wound people.

They're trained to shoot center mass because it's fucking hard to shoot at small targets that are moving fast, and it is supposed to reduce the risk of innocent bystanders being shot.

That guy who goes around teaching cops to be fearful for their life is fucked, and can get fucked. US cops do go for their gun way too quick, but I wouldn't want to be a cop in the US with how many guns there are out there. That whole aspect of American culture (gun lovers) is fucked, and I actually think shooting guns at targets is mildly entertaining (not something I'd do on a regular basis, but have done it before).

With that situation - gotta ask, would a social worker really be able to de-escalate before someone gets stabbed pretty badly? I dunno, but I gotta think most social workers wouldn't be much help there. I think the taser should have been out and ready, and it should definitely have been more than one cop as well as a social worker for the immediate aftermath when the girl swinging was subdued by the taser. Damn. I just came here to post this.

 

[ignatius]

6 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

They're trained to shoot center mass because it's fucking hard to shoot at small targets that are moving fast, and it is supposed to reduce the risk of innocent bystanders being shot.

i hear ya.. but in this case.. her ass is as big as her center mass. i know there's reasons for aiming for center mass.. it's not like a battlefield full of soldiers where they can just open fire on everyone. it's a bummer they aren't taught to have a bit more judgement in situations like this but i guess in the past that meant a lot of cops got shot or something.. or lack of standards put other cops at risk or whatever. idk. non-lethal should be the first goto.. rubber bullets, taser.. whatever.. 

guns do come out quick. cops should be in pairs.. i mean.. that shit was a melee. i wouldn't want to be a cop either.

regarding social workers. .yeah.. not for calls like this.. but for mental health domestic stuff.. w/a back up in place would be good. there's a new program they started in portland of outreach w/non-lethal response teams for certain calls. sort of a pilot program. take some of the load. hopefully it makes a difference. 

 

[zlemflolia]

can someone smarter about this tell me why  cops dont use net guns

[ignatius]

3 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

can someone smarter about this tell me why  cops dont use net guns

SpiderMan. Marvel copyright infringement. 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by ignatius

[MaartenVC]

There was a really good documentary from DW Documentary on Youtube on the fentanyl drug epidemic in North America. However, it seems it can no longer be watched without age verification in EU unfortunately, but you can still download it through other means. The docu is also called Ten Dollar Death Trip: Inside The Fentanyl Crisis by Director Dominic Streeter.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by MaartenVC

[chenGOD]

7 hours ago, ignatius said:

her ass is as big as her center mass

Is this from the original edit of Baby Got Back?

7 hours ago, ignatius said:

there's a new program they started in portland of outreach w/non-lethal response teams for certain calls. sort of a pilot program. take some of the load. hopefully it makes a difference. 

This is good. There are a couple of cops on the soccer team I play with, and they really don't want to deal with domestic/mental health calls, for a number of reasons.

[Rubin Farr]

9 hours ago, ignatius said:

i hear ya.. but in this case.. her ass is as big as her center mass. i know there's reasons for aiming for center mass.. it's not like a battlefield full of soldiers where they can just open fire on everyone. it's a bummer they aren't taught to have a bit more judgement in situations like this but i guess in the past that meant a lot of cops got shot or something.. or lack of standards put other cops at risk or whatever. idk. non-lethal should be the first goto.. rubber bullets, taser.. whatever.. 

guns do come out quick. cops should be in pairs.. i mean.. that shit was a melee. i wouldn't want to be a cop either.

regarding social workers. .yeah.. not for calls like this.. but for mental health domestic stuff.. w/a back up in place would be good. there's a new program they started in portland of outreach w/non-lethal response teams for certain calls. sort of a pilot program. take some of the load. hopefully it makes a difference. 

 

I won’t pretend to understand a police officer’s mindset when in fight or flight mode, but personally I’d rather shoot someone twice in a leg or stomach than resort to an upper torso or head shot. The cop might lose their job, but the victim might have a better chance of survival I would think.

[Alcofribas]

8 minutes ago, eassae said:

Besides people getting shot, the media surrounding these shootings is hugely disturbing. They seem to intentionally be pitting us against each other with an issue that is probably not even a factor in most of the cases. I acknowledge that race could be a factor in some cases, but it can't statistically be the dominant reason.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2021, by race:

bro come on