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How does the World view America these days?


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Just now, eassae said:

I never claimed to be presenting the entire picture of what's taking place. My point was that I feel the media is being very irresponsible and is exacerbating issues that are dividing people further.

when facts are laid out and presented in their full truth, the reactionary elements of society will do what they do best, which is oppose underprivileged groups, rather than doing self crit and improving their institutions.  you valuing the peace of civil society is reactionary since you are denying the reality because you are scared of the reactionary backlash and saying it's worse than the benefits of bringing to light these harsh truths faced by minorities

 

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I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

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1 minute ago, eassae said:

I never claimed to be presenting the entire picture of what's taking place. My point was that I feel the media is being very irresponsible and is exacerbating issues that are dividing people further.

sounds like you're doing literally the exact same type of thing you're accusing the media of doing.

the media are shit, no one debates that. some persons in the media are doing their god's honest best it seems, but as a whole these media conglomerates are designed to get money moreso than present truth.

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Just now, auxien said:

sounds like you're doing literally the exact same type of thing you're accusing the media of doing.

Possibly. I can make mistakes like anyone. But other than @cyanobacteria nobody's really offered to expand on the picture I've presented.

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11 minutes ago, eassae said:

Okay. 

i'm sorry to be so harsh, brother. but this is just so played out at this point it's just really lame to see posts like this pop up again and again online. i mean dude what does it matter if a cop is black??? have you not seen any high school movie whatsoever depicting girls saying extremely hateful sexist shit about other girls? or a repressed gay student who goes around being homophobic af? if films and tv meant for teenagers can manage this completely simple situation i think we can be done with pretending this is some really makes you think issue when it comes to black cops. people are hypocrites, they internalize contradictory things, they hate themselves and others. if in a society that devalues the lives of women, queer people, blacks, etc. an individual can personally gain (actually, or in ignorance) from playing into these hateful biases, guess what? they will! our entire democracy is built on manipulating people to vote against their own interests lol

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3 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

when facts are laid out and presented in their full truth, the reactionary elements of society will do what they do best, which is oppose underprivileged groups, rather than doing self crit and improving their institutions.  you valuing the peace of civil society is reactionary since you are denying the reality because you are scared of the reactionary backlash and saying it's worse than the benefits of bringing to light these harsh truths faced by minorities

It is an interesting idea, that of self preservation. Don't rock the boat if you're comfortable in it. The whole white supremacy thing seems pretty silly or targeting one group for racist behavior seems silly to me though.

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Just now, eassae said:

Possibly. I can make mistakes like anyone. But other than @cyanobacteria nobody's really offered to expand on the picture I've presented.

the information is out there, learn to google for fuck's sake. idc tbh, not here to educate you or anyone. but gtfo with stupid out of context ignorant bullshit tho, you'll get pushback from anyone with any sense when you do.

1 minute ago, eassae said:

It is an interesting idea, that of self preservation. Don't rock the boat if you're comfortable in it. The whole white supremacy thing seems pretty silly or targeting one group for racist behavior seems silly to me though.

if you think white supremacy isn't a large portion of (or perhaps almost all of) the problem in America's racial problems for its entire history you really should do some reading.

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1 minute ago, Alcofribas said:

i'm sorry to be so harsh, brother. but this is just so played out at this point it's just really lame to see posts like this pop up again and again online. i mean dude what does it matter if a cop is black??? have you not seen any high school movie whatsoever depicting girls saying extremely hateful sexist shit about other girls? or a repressed gay student who goes around being homophobic af? if films and tv meant for teenagers can manage this completely simple situation i think we can be done with pretending this is some really makes you think issue when it comes to black cops. people are hypocrites, they internalize contradictory things, they hate themselves and others. if in a society that devalues the lives of women, queer people, blacks, etc. an individual can personally gain from playing into these hateful biases, guess what? they will!

facts, power is intertwined with all kinds of different types of inequality. your example of the cop resonates a lot with officer coffey in boyz n the hood

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2 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

i'm sorry to be so harsh, brother. but this is just so played out at this point it's just really lame to see posts like this pop up again and again online. i mean dude what does it matter if a cop is black??? have you not seen any high school movie whatsoever depicting girls saying extremely hateful sexist shit about other girls? or a repressed gay student who goes around being homophobic af? if films and tv meant for teenagers can manage this completely simple situation i think we can be done with pretending this is some really makes you think issue when it comes to black cops. people are hypocrites, they internalize contradictory things, they hate themselves and others. if in a society that devalues the lives of women, queer people, blacks, etc. an individual can personally gain from playing into these hateful biases, guess what? they will!

I get it, but the other side is played out too at this point and all we have left is hate it seems. You can't get anywhere that way.

Very true: What does it matter? Hate is hate, and compartmentalizing it to one demographic(the white man's coming for us) gets us no where. 

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1 minute ago, eassae said:

I get it, but the other side is played out too at this point and all we have left is hate it seems. You can't get anywhere that way.

Very true: What does it matter? Hate is hate, and compartmentalizing it to one demographic(the white man's coming for us) gets us no where. 

the other side is played out?  i promise it isnt, and it needs a lot more playing out, a lot more revolutionary restructuring of the very society and reshuffling of wealth and power before it can be called played out.  this is what the reactionary white supremacists sense and do not want.  they dont want black people having equal access to the same amenities they do en masse.  they dont want well educated black people who were given good material upbringings by their economic and material conditions and were given free university education and allowed to compete at the highest levels of power.  because they are white supremacists and they feel things should be as they are.  only as we see more revolutionary groups seizing the very means of production will we see liberation for black people, only after the very private property rights helping to entrench white supremacy are utterly smashed and ruined can the black proletariat hope to achieve freedom from the ghost of their slavery that haunts us all to this day, it has not played out, it has not even started

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3 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

the other side is played out?  i promise it isnt, and it needs a lot more playing out, a lot more revolutionary restructuring of the very society and reshuffling of wealth and power before it can be called played out.  this is what the reactionary white supremacists sense and do not want.  they dont want black people having equal access to the same amenities they do en masse.  they dont want well educated black people who were given good material upbringings by their economic and material conditions and were given free university education and allowed to compete at the highest levels of power.  because they are white supremacists and they feel things should be as they are.  only as we see more revolutionary groups seizing the very means of production will we see liberation for black people, only after the very private property rights helping to entrench white supremacy are utterly smashed and ruined can the black proletariat hope to achieve freedom from the ghost of their slavery that haunts us all to this day, it has not played out, it has not even started

Well it seems you have your boogyman. I understand, it does make life a lot simpler. 

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Just now, eassae said:

Well it seems you have your boogyman. I understand, it does make life a lot simpler. 

don't play the victim and pretend I am racist against white people to counteract black racism.  the bogeyman is not a person but a zombie dredged up by the founding fathers and maintained by the bourgeoisie

 

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1 hour ago, eassae said:

I acknowledge that race could be a factor in some cases, but it can't statistically be the dominant reason.

It is a much larger factor than you have considered. Have a look at how bad the white supremacist problem is in police departments.

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/537611-white-supremacy-and-american-policing

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The institutional racism prevalent in many police forces does not constitute white supremacy per se, but it creates an environment conducive to extremist recruitment. The increase in the number of white supremacist groups and their membership over the past two decades has been thoroughly documented. As white supremacy spread, concern over extremist groups recruiting officers increased. A 2006 FBI report warned of white supremacists infiltrating law enforcement and the 2015 Counterterrorism Policy Directive and Policy Guide reiterated the warning, “white supremacist extremists, and sovereign citizen extremists often have identified active links to law enforcement officers.” 

No one knows precisely how many officers belong to extremist organizations. The 2020 Brennan Center report found alleged connections between law enforcement officials and white supremacist groups or “far-right militant activities” in at least 14 states. It also uncovered dozens of reports of racist behavior by officers around the country.

Also these: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report

https://www.vox.com/2021/1/16/22233514/capitol-riot-rally-police-white-supremacy

The shitty policing problem isn't a media problem. That's a right-wing talking point that distracts from the purpose of holding police accountable.

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4 minutes ago, Braintree said:

It is a much larger factor than you have considered. Have a look at how bad the white supremacist problem is in police departments.

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/537611-white-supremacy-and-american-policing

Also these: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report

https://www.vox.com/2021/1/16/22233514/capitol-riot-rally-police-white-supremacy

The shitty policing problem isn't a media problem. That's a right-wing talking point that distracts from the purpose of holding police accountable.

Maybe, and I acknowledge that I could be wrong. But, I just don't trust really any media outlet. I've worked in media too long and seen too much. The Hill is fairly reasonable, but they've done some really shoddy reporting in the past, mostly they're just going off of local news stories with very little research. My opinion. 

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4 minutes ago, eassae said:

Maybe, and I acknowledge that I could be wrong. But, I just don't trust really any media outlet. I've worked in media too long and seen too much. The Hill is fairly reasonable, but they've done some really shoddy reporting in the past, mostly they're just going off of local news stories with very little research. My opinion. 

You can use this: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

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I definitely think there is a shitty policing problem. I don't deny that at all. The main issue being training that I brought up before. I also acknowledge that it is a profession that can attract people that want power over others for whatever reason. I just don't think that is the majority. From the officers I've met, I would say for most it's just a job, some truly want to help their community, I haven't met any that give me pause or that have made me think they are inherently sadistic. That said I'm sure they're out there.

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2 minutes ago, Braintree said:

For me, it's not even a matter of finding bias, that's usually fairly easy to spot. It's that stories are being presented, not with small biases, but with huge ones, and they do it in order to increase profits, and it has real world consequences. 

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2 minutes ago, eassae said:

I definitely think there is a shitty policing problem. I don't deny that at all. The main issue being training that I brought up before. I also acknowledge that it is a profession that can attract people that want power over others for whatever reason. I just don't think that is the majority. From the officers I've met, I would saw for most it's just a job, some truly want to help their community, I haven't met any that give me pause or that have made me thing they are inherently sadistic. That said I'm sure they're out there.

when my brother was a cop i met a bunch of other cops who worked at his dept and other departments when they'd get together. some were really great people, well adjusted, professional etc and some were just fucking awful with terrible and narrow world views, pretty stupid and uninformed and power trippy or lazy as fuck. one guy got fired for making up tickets.. was too lazy to pull people over so he would just fill in the blanks on tickets.. he got caught because one the driver's license numbers he made up turned out to be a real person.  at least he got fired for it. some faith in the system for that. 

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2 minutes ago, eassae said:

For me, it's not even a matter of finding bias, that's usually fairly easy to spot. It's that stories are being presented, not with small biases, but with huge ones, and they do it in order to increase profits, and it has real world consequences. 

Yeah that's a problem that's been around since the newspaper was invented. You have the internet now. You can source what's probably true or not by looking at a lot of different sources.

10 minutes ago, eassae said:

I definitely think there is a shitty policing problem. I don't deny that at all. The main issue being training that I brought up before. I also acknowledge that it is a profession that can attract people that want power over others for whatever reason. I just don't think that is the majority. From the officers I've met, I would say for most it's just a job, some truly want to help their community, I haven't met any that give me pause or that have made me think they are inherently sadistic. That said I'm sure they're out there.

This is another right-wing talking about. You're doing a "not all cops" thing, which isn't our point. Our point is that the system of policing causes a lot of harm and should be addressed. Statistically, this harms African Americans more than any other group.

Also, look up real data rather than relying on anecdotal evidence.

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6 minutes ago, ignatius said:

when my brother was a cop i met a bunch of other cops who worked at his dept and other departments when they'd get together. some were really great people, well adjusted, professional etc and some were just fucking awful with terrible and narrow world views, pretty stupid and uninformed and power trippy or lazy as fuck. one guy got fired for making up tickets.. was too lazy to pull people over so he would just fill in the blanks on tickets.. he got caught because one the driver's license numbers he made up turned out to be a real person.  at least he got fired for it. some faith in the system for that. 

Yeah, it's like in any profession. A lot of people are going to suck.

1 minute ago, Braintree said:

This is another right-wing talking about. You're doing a "not all cops" thing, which isn't our point. Our point is that the system of policing causes a lot of harm and should be addressed. Statistically, this harms African Americans more than any other group.

Also, look up real data rather than relying on anecdotal evidence.

I just don't agree that the entire system of policing "causes a lot of harm." Yes it has harmful aspects.

I thought I was using data? That's what got me in hot water in the first place.

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2 minutes ago, eassae said:

Yeah, it's like in any profession. A lot of people are going to suck.

Chris Rock's relevant bit is at 2:44, gets to the point about 4:30.

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4 minutes ago, auxien said:

Chris Rock's relevant bit is at 2:44, gets to the point about 4:30.

I agree, but I think it's an impossibility, but we can do better.

Funny anecdote, I was a test guinea pig for Chris Rock's break away pants in a commercial in the early 00s. I was the only one on set that was relatively his size. Really nice guy.

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12 minutes ago, eassae said:

Yeah, it's like in any profession. A lot of people are going to suck.

I just don't agree that the entire system of policing "causes a lot of harm." Yes it has harmful aspects.

I thought I was using data? That's what got me in hot water in the first place.

nobody really cares whether you agree that it causes a lot of harm.  the people it's causing harm to agree that it's causing a lot of harm, and they're pushing back.  hopefully they will continue doing it more and more

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1 minute ago, cyanobacteria said:

nobody really cares whether you agree that it causes a lot of harm.  the people it's causing harm to agree that it's causing a lot of harm, and they're pushing back.  hopefully they will continue doing it more and more

I think it would be really interesting to hang out with you when you're drunk.

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2 minutes ago, eassae said:

I agree, but I think it's an impossibility, but we can do better.

what is an impossibility? having the vast majority of cops be good, well-trained, specialized people, much like a pilot, a surgeon, an architect, whatever? and that they're held accountable for mistakes in their profession, large and small? seems pretty fucking possible to me. that there are 'ZERO bad apples' is an impossibility, of course, there will be the rare pilot who crashes a plane full of passengers, a twisted murderous surgeon, etc...but they should be exceedingly rare, because the professions are so high-risk that they should be very full of oversight and restructured/reformed/reevaluated at every level so that mistakes are almost non-existent, and the other professions have this....the police forces in the US should be subject to this as well.

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7 minutes ago, eassae said:

I think it would be really interesting to hang out with you when you're drunk.

wrong again, as a socially phobic and selectively mute autistic person you would likely not get a word out of me apart from "oh hey I have to go, see ya"

2 minutes ago, auxien said:

what is an impossibility? having the vast majority of cops be good, well-trained, specialized people, much like a pilot, a surgeon, an architect, whatever? and that they're held accountable for mistakes in their profession, large and small? seems pretty fucking possible to me. that there are 'ZERO bad apples' is an impossibility, of course, there will be the rare pilot who crashes a plane full of passengers, a twisted murderous surgeon, etc...but they should be exceedingly rare, because the professions are so high-risk that they should be very full of oversight and restructured/reformed/reevaluated at every level so that mistakes are almost non-existent, and the other professions have this....the police forces in the US should be subject to this as well.

i have an even better plan.  let's alleviate the problems that cause the requirement of policing entirely.  a good way to do this would be to start policing the white dominated financial and capitalist institutions.  i suspect youd find so much crime on a level so far beyond anything the typical prisoner has ever done that all of their leaders would be imprisoned

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