chenGOD Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Now this is big news. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30516740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 cool, it's about fucking time. I heard the republicans are pissed about it, and say it isn't legal or some shit. Also, I heard it's because Russia is going to do some shit with Cuba. Dunno much though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The term 'normalise' speaks volumes. After 60 years it might be time to act normal again. Next time, it should be better if it only takes 60 days to normalise a relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pixelives Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The luxury hotel conglomerates are stoked, I bet. Probably already flying down with suitcases full of cash to buy everything up and everything out. Things will definitely improve as far as quality of life goes, in a way, but still, there will be serious issues with changes like this. Russia over the last 25 years is a really good example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Time to visit Cuba before it's ruined! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 The term 'normalise' speaks volumes. After 60 years it might be time to act normal again. Next time, it should be better if it only takes 60 days to normalise a relationship. They want to put an embassy in. Amazing! The luxury hotel conglomerates are stoked, I bet. Probably already flying down with suitcases full of cash to buy everything up and everything out. Things will definitely improve as far as quality of life goes, in a way, but still, there will be serious issues with changes like this. Russia over the last 25 years is a really good example. Yeah things will change, but I don't think Russia is a good example - there's no natural resources like Russia has for oligarchs to really emerge. Still though, they will have to be careful for sure - there's too much collective memory in Cuba of American corps fucking over the locals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 cool, it's about fucking time. I heard the republicans are pissed about it, and say it isn't legal or some shit. Also, I heard it's because Russia is going to do some shit with Cuba. Dunno much though. The most pissed are Cuban-American Republicans, specifically the older anti-Castro expats in Miami. Sen. Rubio has been the most prominent. Rand Paul, the GOP senator oft affiliated with the Tea Party, was openly critical of him. I'm not sure how much of the GOP actually opposes this 100%, especially beyond their soundbites. A lot of younger Cuban-Americans and more recent Cuban immigrants are generally for normalizing relations. Overall I think this is good. Cuba is really the last holdout of the Cold War in terms of being embargoed/not being normalized as a trading partner, perhaps besides the DPRK if you count them. It makes sense if you think about the fact that it's 90 miles off the coast from Key West, FL and part of one of the most tense moments in history. But that was 50 years ago, a lot has changed. The biggest test will come when Raul Castro dies and/or leaves power. While corrupt and authoritative, Cuba has not exactly been the most brutal regime in the Americas, left or right wing. They've loosened up a bit in the last couple decades on religion, but it's still pretty restrictive in terms of what their residents can and can't do. I heard from a British friend who visited there that citizens there act one way in public and then will open up a bit in private about their struggles. They can't emigrate. If anything greater influence of the US via diplomacy and trade will help the Cuban people. They've been very patient and resourceful while being so constrained. The luxury hotel conglomerates are stoked, I bet. Probably already flying down with suitcases full of cash to buy everything up and everything out. Most concerned about this myself, it's isolation has help it maintain so much historic architecture. Cuba was a huge tourist spot for Americans before the Revolution under Batista. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 i mean I cant deny this is a good thing, but I cant help but wonder is Obama actually going to fucking close gitmo? I mean he's got what only 2 years left now? i will be completely blown away if he actually manages to put those inmates into the US criminal justice system or even better releases them.. .if he just 'moves' gitmo somewhere else the closure will be 100% horseshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 i mean I cant deny this is a good thing, but I cant help but wonder is Obama actually going to fucking close gitmo? I mean he's got what only 2 years left now? i will be completely blown away if he actually manages to put those inmates into the US criminal justice system or even better releases them.. .if he just 'moves' gitmo somewhere else the closure will be 100% horseshit Yeah the last thing I was aware of was the transfer of a few inmates to Uruguay. 4 were transferred to Afghanistan today, having been "cleared" for such a move years ago. I imagine the status of the base will change little, even if/when "Camp Justice" (the actual prison camp/detention center) is hypothetically closed. It's actually a fairly small part of the base. Diplomatically, hence the reason it was a detention site, it's a fucking weird place. It's a holdover from 1898, so it was open almost 60 years before the Revolution, and similar to Gibraltar as a geographical territory. The actual regular portion of the base is like any other US military installation, even with local Cuban civilian workers commuting to the base daily up until fairly recently. Before 2001 it was a pretty quiet base, more of a Caribbean regional depot than anything for the Navy. I knew a DoDDs teacher (the school system for military dependents) who worked there for awhile. He mentioned how he could collect aluminum cans and bottles for recycling money very easily because Cubans would dump off that trash near the perimeter fences. My dad flew in there once on a supply sortie back in the 90s. Even brought back a novelty patch with a beach and palm tree saying "Pearl of the Antilles" or something silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 i mean I cant deny this is a good thing, but I cant help but wonder is Obama actually going to fucking close gitmo? I mean he's got what only 2 years left now? i will be completely blown away if he actually manages to put those inmates into the US criminal justice system or even better releases them.. .if he just 'moves' gitmo somewhere else the closure will be 100% horseshit Yeah the last thing I was aware of was the transfer of a few inmates to Uruguay. 4 were transferred to Afghanistan today, having been "cleared" for such a move years ago. I imagine the status of the base will change little, even if/when "Camp Justice" (the actual prison camp/detention center) is hypothetically closed. It's actually a fairly small part of the base. Diplomatically, hence the reason it was a detention site, it's a fucking weird place. It's a holdover from 1898, so it was open almost 60 years before the Revolution, and similar to Gibraltar as a geographical territory. The actual regular portion of the base is like any other US military installation, even with local Cuban civilian workers commuting to the base daily up until fairly recently. Before 2001 it was a pretty quiet base, more of a Caribbean regional depot than anything for the Navy. I knew a DoDDs teacher (the school system for military dependents) who worked there for awhile. He mentioned how he could collect aluminum cans and bottles for recycling money very easily because Cubans would dump off that trash near the perimeter fences. My dad flew in there once on a supply sortie back in the 90s. Even brought back a novelty patch with a beach and palm tree saying "Pearl of the Antilles" or something silly. yeah I had no idea the complex history behind the base itself, it's pretty fascinating stuff. that's cool that your dad's been there, not sure if you saw this : i sort of play the role of the interviewer while Abby revisits her experience there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 The term 'normalise' speaks volumes. After 60 years it might be time to act normal again. Next time, it should be better if it only takes 60 days to normalise a relationship. They want to put an embassy in. Amazing! The luxury hotel conglomerates are stoked, I bet. Probably already flying down with suitcases full of cash to buy everything up and everything out. Things will definitely improve as far as quality of life goes, in a way, but still, there will be serious issues with changes like this. Russia over the last 25 years is a really good example. Yeah things will change, but I don't think Russia is a good example - there's no natural resources like Russia has for oligarchs to really emerge. Still though, they will have to be careful for sure - there's too much collective memory in Cuba of American corps fucking over the locals. There's potential bonanza of offshore oil fields that were being jointly sussed out with Russia's rozneft (sp), and congress has to approve normalisation as it's currently illegal. Frankly after that scandal sponsoring rappers and so forth to think that calling the hoped for future relationship that the US envisages, normal is a tad incorrect to say the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 In diplomatic terms, normalization means... Ah fuck it, America is the devil 666. Also the off-shore oil fields are apparently a bust. China and Russia are both helping with further extraction in the traditional oil fields. More here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/11/us-cuba-energy-idUSKBN0GB1QN20140811 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Not sure what your point is, but now that oil prices are as low as they currently are, traditional Cuban partners USSR and China aren't interested in exploiting offshore Cuban oil sources? Which makes it harder for Cuba to create some economic growth. But now the US will alleviate the diplo-economic sanctions Cuban economy looks brighter again. ??? So, hurrah for America! Savior of this earth! And Cuba. (except for north korea...) *amercian exceptionalism* *american flags* *eagles flying everywhere* and capitalism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Just in time to solve our issues at shortstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Not sure what your point is, but now that oil prices are as low as they currently are, traditional Cuban partners USSR and China aren't interested in exploiting offshore Cuban oil sources? Which makes it harder for Cuba to create some economic growth. But now the US will alleviate the diplo-economic sanctions Cuban economy looks brighter again. ??? So, hurrah for America! Savior of this earth! And Cuba. (except for north korea...) *amercian exceptionalism* *american flags* *eagles flying everywhere* and capitalism Not sure if that was directed to me or delet? But I'm not interested in viewing everything that the US does through the lens of them being the almighty scourge of the earth, which is what several people on here seem to do... And oil prices are low now, but this is short term. In the long run, shale fracking is too expensive for this price to keep up. Off-shore has a much lower break-even point. So it would be remarkably short-sighted of the Russians and Chinese to abandon the off-shore sites (and whilst they might not be the gentlest of folks, they're surely not stupid about economics) earlier this year before the crash in oil prices. So my guess is the oil fields probably don't hold the reserves the Cubans claimed they did. An interesting couple of articles: Saudis continued geopolitical importance in the oil world http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/12/18/why-would-the-saudis-crash-oil-markets-iran/ Fracking costs/break-even points http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/01/08/what-would-happen-to-the-current-fracking-activity-and-subsequent-booms-generated-if-oil-bbl-were-to-drop/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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