data Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 So what does this mean really? Well, as an example, I live in the UK and when a German fan buys one of my MP3s, because they live in a country that is a member of the EU, I would now have to charge them an additional 19% VAT on top of the existing sale price. This money is collected by me and then sent to the HMRC (the UK tax office) every 3 months,. There are around 28 EU specific regions, each having their own VAT rates. EVERY single country in the EU will need to be accounted for separately when I file my VAT return. That's over 20 pages, every 3 months, separate from the annual income tax return. Basically, it's an accountants worse nightmare. This isn't just a UK problem either. ALL countries are affected. If you live in the USA and intend to sell digital records to any country in the EU, then you too will need to pay VAT tax directly to the HMRC. Live in Australia or Mexico? You're affected too, sorry! Now for music BUYERS (which is probably most of you reading this), if you live in the EU, then you are now going to be paying about 20% more in price for your digial music, games, videos etc.. As if prices weren't high enough! http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sji42f this doesn't just affect musicians either. it concerns all digital trade, no matter what it is. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11295953/How-the-EU-is-throttling-online-business-with-idiotic-VAT-reform.html i guess im gonna have to disable my bandcamp page for now then? i dunno. fuck. here's a petition that probably won't make much of a difference: https://www.change.org/p/pierre-moscovici-a-unilateral-suspension-of-the-introduction-of-the-new-eu-vat-laws-for-micro-businesses-and-sole-traders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Foil Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Yeah, saw this on the 36 FB page. The EU sure is great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Jan Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 So what does this mean really? Well, as an example, I live in the UK and when a German fan buys one of my MP3s, because they live in a country that is a member of the EU, I would now have to charge them an additional 19% VAT on top of the existing sale price. This money is collected by me and then sent to the HMRC (the UK tax office) every 3 months,. There are around 28 EU specific regions, each having their own VAT rates. EVERY single country in the EU will need to be accounted for separately when I file my VAT return. That's over 20 pages, every 3 months, separate from the annual income tax return. Basically, it's an accountants worse nightmare. "Initially it was feared that sellers would have to jump through lots of tricky hoops, including the chore of filing quarterly VAT returns, in order to comply with the new rules (the Daily Telegraph has detailed the many drawbacks to the changes). However, an update from Bandcamp has clarified that the site will be doing most of the legwork for sellers." http://www.factmag.com/2014/12/29/bandcamp-sellers-vat-tax-digital-downloads-from-january-2015/ http://www.stevelawson.net/2014/12/bandcamp-and-the-new-eu-vat-law/ Still, this is really crap, can't be good. I wonder when this was law was announced, as there seems little time to object or review it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 yeah i just saw the bandcamp update. they're trying to make it easier but it's still nowhere near fine. I own several web sites that I run on the side. Up to this point I didn't need to charge VAT on my sales to private customers because the level of my sales is below a certain threshold under Belgian rules.But this changes with this new regulation, where I will have to charge VAT to all private customers in other EU countries. I will have track if my customer is a business or a private person, track three different pieces of evidence on where my customer is located, track the VAT rates and laws of 28 different countries, and keep this data for ten years!!!!!!!! Hello, reality check? How am I supposed to do this? This is outrageous! A solo entrepreneur doesn't have time for these chicaneries. The EU is in a finacnial crisis and should help and promote small businesses. But this new regulation will add to their problems and stiffle their sales. Why is there no minimal threshold under which small businesses are exempt of VAT? All I can see is the EU and its countries trying to grab taxes on even the smallest Euro and in the process hindering small businesses. Big businesses on the other hand, which this regulation was targetting, will do well because they can afford the administrative overhead. Well done EU/EC, seriously disappointed by you again. fuck this. seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aces Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 This is the biggest amount of bullshit. I was just starting to get somewhere with my music stuff. Selling via bandcamp getting bits trickling in building up at least a little. Now I pretty much have to shut up shop or give stuff away. It's just a great fuck off kick in the teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juiceciuj Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 barf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petina Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 what a disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Still, this is really crap, can't be good. I wonder when this was law was announced, as there seems little time to object or review it. The EU? Taking into consideration the wellbeing of its citizens? Or even adhering to a transparent, democratic state? I never heard of such.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Well I was planning on releasing an album on Bandcamp tomorrow. Guess it'll be today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Jan Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Still, this is really crap, can't be good. I wonder when this was law was announced, as there seems little time to object or review it. The EU? Taking into consideration the wellbeing of its citizens? Or even adhering to a transparent, democratic state? I never heard of such.. :) Well, I stumbled upon this: apparently they agreed on this law as early as 2008. Which seems logical, as digital distribution on the web has changed immensely since that year. According to that link they also communicated about this change since that year... Who knew?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIII Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 First USPS doubles international shipping rates, now this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricone RC Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 The potential for accidental fuckups is so vast that this will almost inevitably implode into its own cumbersome ridiculousness pretty quickly. Hopefully anyway! One of the greatest benefits of the internet is that it allows you to bypass petty political/national bullshit. It shouldn't be reigned in like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Jan Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Just saw this post by Mike Dred, had to share it since it exemplifies the idiocy of this law: [My bit...]As many of you aleady know, the taxation & accounting remit on Digital Downloads is about to go totally and utterly bonkers as of January 1st, 2015. The only way for now to remain exempt from the impending bureaucratic madness, will be to "physically' (cough) attach the music / graphics / photos et al (any data format that is currently classed as a form of digital download) and email the data as an attachment (think .zip file, .pdf etc.), as opposed to rediecting to a 'download' link within an email communication. It is completely and utterly Bonkers. So to cut to the chase... If I keep my bandcamp page active, I'll stream music on it but dactivate the payment option. You as a customer can then email me a request to purchase it and I will zip up the files and deliver as an attachment (possibly via wetransfer.com) after you as a customer has enhanced my paypal account with a dollar or two. The only losers are bandcamp. The important bit for micro businesses / sole traders earning a pittance is indicated in the following paragraph: [Their bit...] Exclusions: The level of manual intervention when supplying digital content plays a big part in establishing if the regulation applies. If you run a smaller business with low sales volumes, a more manual approach allows you to stay outside the regulations. For instance, you can send the buyer an email with the purchased content attached and this is not classed as supplying content electronically. However, if you manually email the buyer a link to the purchased download, instead of attaching it, this still has to be taxed. Petition link: https://www.change.org/p/vince-cable-mp-uphold-the-vat-exem… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterE Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 this is the same EU that just a few months ago passed 'strict' net neutrality rules, to protect freedom of expression, and the little guy's rights to internets etc etc etc yada yada yada and all those other feel good (smoke and mirror) things? and this tax is going to hurt who the most? the little guy? i guess it turns out that having a greedy union in control of the net doesn't exactly make it neutral? didnt see that coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Do they have tax police that will come and spank you if you don't pay this bullshit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Just saw this post by Mike Dred, had to share it since it exemplifies the idiocy of this law: [My bit...] As many of you aleady know, the taxation & accounting remit on Digital Downloads is about to go totally and utterly bonkers as of January 1st, 2015. The only way for now to remain exempt from the impending bureaucratic madness, will be to "physically' (cough) attach the music / graphics / photos et al (any data format that is currently classed as a form of digital download) and email the data as an attachment (think .zip file, .pdf etc.), as opposed to rediecting to a 'download' link within an email communication. It is completely and utterly Bonkers. So to cut to the chase... If I keep my bandcamp page active, I'll stream music on it but dactivate the payment option. You as a customer can then email me a request to purchase it and I will zip up the files and deliver as an attachment (possibly via wetransfer.com) after you as a customer has enhanced my paypal account with a dollar or two. The only losers are bandcamp. The important bit for micro businesses / sole traders earning a pittance is indicated in the following paragraph: [Their bit...] Exclusions: The level of manual intervention when supplying digital content plays a big part in establishing if the regulation applies. If you run a smaller business with low sales volumes, a more manual approach allows you to stay outside the regulations. For instance, you can send the buyer an email with the purchased content attached and this is not classed as supplying content electronically. However, if you manually email the buyer a link to the purchased download, instead of attaching it, this still has to be taxed. Petition link: https://www.change.org/p/vince-cable-mp-uphold-the-vat-exem… If the rules were written in 2008, they are already out of date in their thinking. To my mind they were putting in pretty naive provisions to protect small traders because even back then pointing to a download was an easier option than an attachment. I mean as if people that already have a full time job then spend all their free time writing music on the side are going to have time to become a tax paperwork filler as well, so therefore this would have been expressed in constructing the laws and the email attachment provision would have been thrown up to placate the fair minded MEPs in the group organising this. Since then things like bandcamp have arrived, further diversifying the music market and presenting a real threat to the big music players, so it's not without some good reason that you could imagine that these laws would have been perhaps written in such a way to cause the most disruption to these new players in the market and their millions of small store holders, whom the naive MEPs were told were being protected by illigitimate provisions in the legislation. I'm sure that a campaign will arise suggesting that you have to be earning over a certain amount for these rules to apply, much more will be said about this matter. Although the way the undemocratic (and really it is, look at that russia sanctions bullshit and the billions it has cost EU producers) EU administration has been going, maybe the tears will continue to fall and if we want to support the artists it will have to be with a dark alt coin using a dark wallet, and mores the pity for the 'real' economy (that noone under 500 million a year revenue is allowed to join). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-a-m-o Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 -This is madness !! -madness? THIS IS EUROPAAAAAA !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futureimage Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 this doesn't just affect musicians either. it concerns all digital trade, no matter what it is. I was going to register the synth design + manufacture business I've just taken full-time for VAT at some point in 2016. Looks like that'll be happening this coming April instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIII Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 If I live in the USA, am I going to have to collect 20% from EU buyers, and mail the money to some European tax agency? Will I have to register somewhere in order for me to pay the tax? Or can I just simply ignore the new law since I'm not in the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIII Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Most of my buyers are in Europe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perezvon Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I'm amazed at how EU gets more despicable each day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 If I live in the USA, am I going to have to collect 20% from EU buyers, and mail the money to some European tax agency? Will I have to register somewhere in order for me to pay the tax? Or can I just simply ignore the new law since I'm not in the EU? "ALL countries are affected. If you live in the USA and intend to sell digital records to any country in the EU, then you too will need to pay VAT tax directly to the HMRC. Live in Australia or Mexico? You're affected too, sorry!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-a-m-o Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 taxes,taxes,taxes everywhere. This is EU. what a nightmare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 If I live in the USA, am I going to have to collect 20% from EU buyers, and mail the money to some European tax agency? Will I have to register somewhere in order for me to pay the tax? Or can I just simply ignore the new law since I'm not in the EU? Fucking ignore it, they ain't gonna do shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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