delet... Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 tax agencies have some of the most brutal penalties though, they want to make an example of him and he's touring to where his fans are. Afterall they will have info from bandcamp on sales in europe no doubt. /steps off the plane, get arrested for tax fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danshoebridge Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Lot of bandcamp folks picking up on this it seems - just got this email: Dear friends, we're sending you this message because - at some point in the past few years - you've purchased a digital album via our Aeolian Editions Bandcamp site. Due to new EU VAT regulations which come into force on the 1st of January 2015, we have no choice but to temporarily close our Bandcamp site, as we cannot meet the onerous administrative requirements necessary to continue. Purchase can still be made directly from the site until then: http://aeolian.bandcamp.com/ As the legislation only covers 'automated' digital services, we have created a workaround which will enable us to continue making our music available digitally. We have created a temporary new website through which download codes can be purchased: http://aeolianeditions.wordpress.com/ We will personally respond to each purchase with a tailored message and a download code. We will still be using Bandcamp's file hosting service, and will provide you with a link to a Bandcamp page where the code can be redeemed. As this (hopefully) temporary measure is non-automated, it is exempt from the new legislation. This also applies to our new Bandcamp page for The Inward Circles. Digital editions of the album can now be bought directly from the Corbel Stone Press website, or via: http://theinwardcircles.wordpress.com/ With many thanks and warm wishes for 2015 Autumn Richardson & Richard Skelton Corbel Stone Press / Aeolian Editions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Foil Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I hope this doesn't mean the end of Bandcamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juiceciuj Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 does bandcamp not allow you to limit who may purchase your music by region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 does bandcamp not allow you to limit who may purchase your music by region? that's not really a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 What the hell are they playing at? How are they going to enforce VAT collection on residents of the world outside the EU? Well, watch the EU go dark in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 i don't like how im not hearing/reading anything about this anywhere but here and on a couple of music groups on facebook. nothing in my twitter feed, nothing on reddit ..blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Well then go post this guardian article in your twitter feed and on reddit: http://www.theguardian.com/small-business-network/2014/nov/25/new-eu-vat-regulations-threaten-micro-businesses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aces Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 does bandcamp not allow you to limit who may purchase your music by region? In a post bandcamp made earlier they said they will not enable this kind of functionality. i don't like how im not hearing/reading anything about this anywhere but here and on a couple of music groups on facebook. nothing in my twitter feed, nothing on reddit ..blah. I don't know about anything about reddit but my twitter feed has been pretty much little else but this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Does this also mean tourists don't get their VAT refunded when they exit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lala Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 can bandcamp email us a zip file? actually, flacs are mahoosive arent they. must be a workaround somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The workaround is to organise a lobby group. watmm small traders association. We even have members in belgium who can front for us. "my cat will starve if i can't sell my micro-acid-beat-tweek-music, think of the kittens" /sell t-shirts stating think of the kittens, protest by not paying the VAT for the income on the t-shirts (it would probably be tax exempt because political group or something anyway).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Maybe someone has read the legal stuff better than I have (I've read a few descriptions of it, not dug in hard though...) and can help with an idea. I saw this site, patreon.com, a few months back and considered setting up a music thing on there. Quick intro: there are creators (of youtube videos, artists, writers, musicians, but mostly wacky internet shit), and patrons. Patrons pay a small fee, usually monthly, to get 'access' to...well, things. Maybe they see a public video early, or get an exclusive tour video tour of an artist's studio, or a demo version of a track, or whatever. The idea is the creators are producing a little extra and giving some kind of exclusive access to those willing to pay. I think there's another site or two that falls under the same category, but this is the one I first became familiar with, can't remember the others... My question is, since the patrons aren't paying for a 'thing' necessarily, but sort of donating to the artist for whatever, wouldn't that circumvent the VAT rules? But an artist like myself could theoretically set up an account that offered a couple songs a month, and maybe a higher tier for a free album download or something of the sort? Seems like it could be a solution, for at least some of us music makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 EU grandaddy legislators ftw! Signed the petition. 'will call Dutch tax know-it-alls today for in depth info, but can't say I feel threatened for the free/pay what you want busking on my pages, I think if you make less than ~1000 euro's a year the tax gestapo will ignore you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Damn..this doesnt make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perezvon Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 https://bandcamp.com/help/selling Does Bandcamp handle European Union VAT (Value Added Tax)? Effective January 1, 2015, Bandcamp helps artists and labels collect and pay VAT on digital album and track purchases in the following ways: For each purchase that includes a digital item, Bandcamp automatically determines if the buyer is based in an EU country. If they are, we calculate the proper VAT amount and add it to the order total. As usual, the proceeds from these transactions flow directly to you (see Pricing for more details about how that works). If you know you fall below your country's VAT exemption threshold, a setting on your Profile pageallows you to disable VAT collection for domestic purchases. Effective March 1, 2015, a downloadable VAT report will be available on your Tools page. This report, organized by calendar quarter, will include the data necessary to submit a VAT return for your Bandcamp sales. To report and pay tax for sales in which VAT was charged, EU-based artists and labels: Register for MOSS (or "Mini One-Stop Shop," a website used to report and pay cross-border VAT) in your country. UK MOSS sign up is here. In some countries this might involve becoming "VAT registered" first. See your country's MOSS site for details. Each quarter, submit a VAT return using MOSS and pay the tax owed. Your Bandcamp VAT report includes all the information needed for the return, including your total taxable sales broken down by country, as well as the evidence used to determine the buyer's location for each sale. Under our current system, in which buyers pay you directly, the above is the easiest we can make it for sellers to meet their VAT obligations. In the first half of 2015, we plan to make payments for digital transactions flow through Bandcamp. Among other advantages, this will allow us to take care of everything related to digital VAT, including tax reporting and payment. Common questions about EU VAT for digital goods: I've heard I need to keep lots of information about my customers for 10 years. Is this true? Bandcamp automatically determines your buyer's location using several pieces of evidence, including their PayPal country, their Bandcamp location preferences, and IP geolocation. Your downloadable Bandcamp VAT report includes the evidence we used for each purchase. All you need to do is store this report. The report includes no personally-identifiable information about your customers. I sell merch with digital included. Does digital VAT apply to these items? No, it does not. These items are covered by the existing tax settings in the "Physical Goods" section of your artist Profile page. This is madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 At least they're trying to help, they must realize this jeopardizes their fundamental business model and they want to stay in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I urge any of you living outside the EU to not pay the VAT. They have no jurisdiction, and they're not gonna waste the effort hunting you down and putting you on some sort of blacklist should you ever travel to the EU. This would make sense if they put a threshold on it in order to more effectively target the big boys they say they're after. It doesn't even need to be a huge threshold, somewhere around 500,000 euros in gross sales or something like that. You're not gonna kill the SMEs and it will ensnare the big boy foreign companies they say they're really after. Either that or have all your customers register as a business, as there is no VAT applied to the seller on B2B sales if my understanding is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Atom Dowry Firth Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I urge any of you living outside the EU to not pay the VAT. They have no jurisdiction, and they're not gonna waste the effort hunting you down and putting you on some sort of blacklist should you ever travel to the EU. It's automatically added to the price of the product, it's not an optional extra gratuity. The only way you don't pay the VAT is by not buying the product in the first place. I signed the petition in the OP and there's another one for people who live in the UK too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granty Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Christ just posted this to Facebook... Christ. 49 mins · according to this flowchart, the moss vat changes wouldn't affect bandcamp types because you're supplying digital media through a third party website. win. whitehall-admin.production.alphagov.co.uk WHITEHALL-ADMIN.PRODUCTION.ALPHAGOV.CO.UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Atom Dowry Firth Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 UK HMRC has published a flow chart which suggests that downloads sold through a third party marketplace are not eligible for VAT. Their guidance states that “if the platform operator identifies you as the seller but sets the general terms and conditions, or authorises payment, or handles delivery/download of the digital service, the platform is considered to be supplying the consumer. They are therefore responsible for accounting for the VAT payment that is charged to the consumer.” However, as Bandcamp’s current system sees buyers and sellers dealing with each other directly, it is not considered a third party marketplace for now. Bandcamp doesn't fall into the category in the flow chart apparently https://bandcamp.com/help/selling#tax Going to need to just stop selling through them until either they update their t&c's or there is an amendment to the EU legislation I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stock Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I love it when the EU gets closer and closer to the kind of administrative caricature depicted in "Brazil"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aces Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Good news for the bandcampers. http://blog.bandcamp.com/2014/12/30/eu-digital-vat-changes-and-bandcamp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I urge any of you living outside the EU to not pay the VAT. They have no jurisdiction, and they're not gonna waste the effort hunting you down and putting you on some sort of blacklist should you ever travel to the EU. It's automatically added to the price of the product, it's not an optional extra gratuity. The only way you don't pay the VAT is by not buying the product in the first place. I signed the petition in the OP and there's another one for people who live in the UK too Sorry if I wasn't clear: I'm telling sellers who live outside the EU, (who are now responsible for paying VAT back to the EU), to not bother paying it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perezvon Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Good news for the bandcampers. http://blog.bandcamp.com/2014/12/30/eu-digital-vat-changes-and-bandcamp/ These guys are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.