French mag Charlie Hebdo attacked by gunmen, 12 dead

[cwmbrancity]

 

 

 

islam muslim community needs a reformation but it has to come from within the muslim community

 

 

yeah, but the problem also lies partly in certain aspects of religious practice which are out of touch with the modern world. the practices and philosophies of Islam themselves need development, one cannot expect that a 7th century desert way of life will continue to apply perfectly to the life of a 21st century city dweller.

 

 

They would have their own 21st century cities by now

 

 

 

"they" dont have modern cities? go to Tehran or Istanbul.......

 

lord hear my prayer

[cwmbrancity]

that statement is truly pathetic Delete

[usagi]

I didn't say anything about economic development, I was talking about the mindset of living now versus back then, and the futility of expecting any ideology in the world to hold up for all time in the face of constant change.

[cwmbrancity]

it was the 21st century cities statement made by someone else chap, which alludes to backwardness & something primitive

[cwmbrancity]

as anything typed here can now be deleted ad-hoc i'll remove myself from this thread, as what seemed a genuinely interesting debate has been cluttered up and stained by apologists for antisemites and their kind

 

u cant ever learn what u dont want to know

 

delete that too, give u something to do

[cwmbrancity]

for once i'm grateful that the government of this country, while being an inept hive of uber-cunts most of the time, banned Dieudonne so that his poisonous hate-stirring bs isnt given the platforms it needs to spread division and ill-feeling in our communities

[Lane Visitor]

You should know better than to call someone out on here who passes off Dieudonne as a non-anti- semite / legit comedian and someone who calls for holocaust revisionism to be legitimized. Shame on you...

 

It's the people who use the word "barbaric" when describing cultural oppression by regimes in Islamic countries & those who blame terrorist acts on religious fundamentalism that are the real racists / ignoramus's, dontchyaknow (;

 

NEVER QUESTION WATMM GenBan Political Thread Logic!

[Guest WNS000]

Reformation of Islam is impossible because it would mean that Allah was wrong with Quran - completely unacceptable for a Muslim because Allah does not make mistakes as he is absolutely perfect in every possible way (this is mentioned in Quran). Quran is directly from Allah, so there are no mistakes in the book (this is explicitly mentioned in Quran too).

 

Also, there is no religious authority in Islam (no church) that would have a right to do the reformation because everything on this Earth is subordinated to Allah.

 

Another crucial thing to understand is that a peaceful Muslim is basically a "bad Muslim" as he/she have to ignore some of the parts of Islam that are violent and hateful against non-believers. Sharia and Jihad are inseparable parts of Islam. Separating one of these would again mean that Allah was wrong. Not possible. Many of the violent, hateful fundamentalists are actually the true Muslims that really respect every single piece of information in the books..

 

Also, Muslims can (and are encouraged to) lie to non-believers if it serves the purpose of Islam. With this in mind, a "reformation" could be just another lie that would help to spread Islam around the world.

 

One more important thing I want to say is that according to the laws of the EU and my country, Islam is an illegal ideology because it violates civil-rights in our constitution (such as free speech) and other laws. Yet, our politicians are unable to come to an agreement what should be done about it.

 

So there we go...

[chenGOD]

Context and social perception play a real role in defining things.

How Dieudonne presents himself and the context he keeps definitely mark him as someone who has an agenda against a certain group of people.

I think someone already brought up the genocides in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia: anyone who doesn't think hate speech played a large role in those incidences is living in a dream land.

Now comparing Dieudonne to that level of barbarism is obviously wrong. But to call his actions "brave" is an injustice to real bravery. I'm not saying what Charlie Hebdo does is real bravery either, but as far as I know they are not actively promoting hatred against one particular race or religious group.

 

As to to fundamentalism, blaming this on religious beliefs is also ridiculously stupid. These are people who clearly don't care about what their religion actually practices, but are either mentally unstable (ignoring the obvious mental instability of believing in fairy tales as a base) or are using religion as tool for gaining power.

 

As for oppression against Muslims, the French Muslims should see what their colleagues in Burma suffer, and also how they respond.

[Allize]

This cwmbracity dude really tries hard to get any sort of attention.

You're the hate monger here buddy. Trying to distort everything that has been said. Even the people that were somewhat on your lane abandoned the topic, because you ruinned the conversation. I explained my view about dieudonne, being that you're incredibly biased and ignorant about the subject, I tried to clarify why I had some appreciation for him, one of the main reasons being that I don't find the general idea the media impose to be true, your response is to label me with the worst words you can find. That sort of method is very frequent nowadays, it isn't a friend of free speech I assure you. I also posted several other things after that, mostly showing the double standard by french authorities (no dieudonne involved) being that I do believe there is one..and that's my side on the debate. I don't know if you're trolling or what not but your personna really comes off as a hateful prejudiced and close-minded person. It's almost as if you were biased. Don't wanna push any buttons but you did admit you were jewish and married to a french jewish woman (not meddling into his personal business but he did insist on that detail) maybe that has something to do with it the attitude. Honestly I don't care. You said you weren't going to answer to me anymore and I accepted to do the same but you kept provoking and talking to much shit about me. Most people are too lazy to go back some pages to actually understand my views, so I'm just cleaning my (nick)name here.

[cwmbrancity]

This cwmbracity dude really tries hard to get any sort of attention.

You're the hate monger here buddy. Trying to distort everything that has been said. Even the people that were somewhat on your lane abandoned the topic, because you ruinned the conversation. I explained my view about dieudonne, being that you're incredibly biased and ignorant about the subject, I tried to clarify why I had some appreciation for him, one of the main reasons being that I don't find the general idea the media impose to be true, your response is to label me with the worst words you can find. That sort of method is very frequent nowadays, it isn't a friend of free speech I assure you. I also posted several other things after that, mostly showing the double standard by french authorities (no dieudonne involved) being that I do believe there is one..that's my side of the debate. I don't know if you're trolling or what not but your personna really comes off as a hateful prejudiced and close-minded person. It's almost as if you were biased. Don't wanna push any buttons but you did admit you were jewish and married to a french jewish woman (not meddling into his personal business but he did insist on that detail) maybe that has something to do with it the attitude but honestly I don't care.

 

 

attention seeker?

 

hateful?

 

prejudiced?

 

quite loaded words mate......grow a fuckin set already

 

 

someone sent me this pm earlier.....read what u like into it,,,,,,

 

 

 

 

hi,

 

i've been keeping up with the hebdo thread and figured i'd drop you a line just to say that i for one see no problem with how you've handled yourself and i think people like allize & delet are being idiots. this is something you're going to have to deal with if you intend to stick around on watmm. i've been on this board since like 2*** and recently i've taken a sabbatical from posting specifically bc i find there's a steady stream of right-wing, quasi-fascist bullshit on here lately. any time political issues come up, specifically involving islam, there's some seriously fucked up posting that goes on and i for one find it pretty infuriating.

 

basically, don't take it too seriously. the forum is quite good for lols and music discoveries. but if you intend to hash things out in political threads just be warned that it can get pretty pathetic.

 

all the best,

 

 

so there you go chap

 

and Mr Al.... please be more succinct with your diatribes in the future,,,,,you could boil those long statements down for every1 to a paragraph or 2

 

i can practically feel the heat being emitted from the frenzied typing on your keyboard

 

the bottom line is u support an openly racist antisemite

 

 

maybe mr del-ete can delete more of my posts,,,,,,,come now keep up young man

[Allize]

And so what? As I see it that person is just as oblivious to the subject as you are.

[chenGOD]

Oh and by the way, while I think Dieudonne and his ilk are reprehensible, unfortunately they still have the right to say that shit.

When they start talking about promoting actual killing of Jews, that's when the shit needs to get cracked down upon.

[Allize]

Oh wait you got a pm

here, take the holy grail of reason.

[Hugh Mughnus]

Oh and by the way, while I think Dieudonne and his ilk are reprehensible, unfortunately they still have the right to say that shit.

When they start talking about promoting actual killing of Jews, that's when the shit needs to get cracked down upon.

 

Absolutely correct. Supporting the right to say that shit is NOT supporting anti-semitism. Two different things IMO.

[delet...]

 

This cwmbracity dude really tries hard to get any sort of attention.

You're the hate monger here buddy. Trying to distort everything that has been said. Even the people that were somewhat on your lane abandoned the topic, because you ruinned the conversation. I explained my view about dieudonne, being that you're incredibly biased and ignorant about the subject, I tried to clarify why I had some appreciation for him, one of the main reasons being that I don't find the general idea the media impose to be true, your response is to label me with the worst words you can find. That sort of method is very frequent nowadays, it isn't a friend of free speech I assure you. I also posted several other things after that, mostly showing the double standard by french authorities (no dieudonne involved) being that I do believe there is one..that's my side of the debate. I don't know if you're trolling or what not but your personna really comes off as a hateful prejudiced and close-minded person. It's almost as if you were biased. Don't wanna push any buttons but you did admit you were jewish and married to a french jewish woman (not meddling into his personal business but he did insist on that detail) maybe that has something to do with it the attitude but honestly I don't care.

 

 

attention seeker?

 

hateful?

 

prejudiced?

 

quite loaded words mate......grow a fuckin set already

 

 

someone sent me this pm earlier.....read what u like into it,,,,,,

 

 

 

 

hi,

 

i've been keeping up with the hebdo thread and figured i'd drop you a line just to say that i for one see no problem with how you've handled yourself and i think people like allize & delet are being idiots. this is something you're going to have to deal with if you intend to stick around on watmm. i've been on this board since like 2*** and recently i've taken a sabbatical from posting specifically bc i find there's a steady stream of right-wing, quasi-fascist bullshit on here lately. any time political issues come up, specifically involving islam, there's some seriously fucked up posting that goes on and i for one find it pretty infuriating.

 

basically, don't take it too seriously. the forum is quite good for lols and music discoveries. but if you intend to hash things out in political threads just be warned that it can get pretty pathetic.

 

all the best,

 

 

so there you go chap

 

and Mr Al.... please be more succinct with your diatribes in the future,,,,,you could boil those long statements down for every1 to a paragraph or 2

 

i can practically feel the heat being emitted from the frenzied typing on your keyboard

 

the bottom line is u support an openly racist antisemite

 

 

maybe mr del-ete can delete more of my posts,,,,,,,come now keep up young man

 

 

Ok, it's pretty well established that you are a troll. Time for a couple of days to cool off sunshine.

[usagi]

Reformation of Islam is impossible because it would mean that Allah was wrong with Quran - completely unacceptable for a Muslim because Allah does not make mistakes as he is absolutely perfect in every possible way (this is mentioned in Quran). Quran is directly from Allah, so there are no mistakes in the book (this is explicitly mentioned in Quran too).

 

Also, there is no religious authority in Islam (no church) that would have a right to do the reformation because everything on this Earth is subordinated to Allah.

 

Another crucial thing to understand is that a peaceful Muslim is basically a "bad Muslim" as he/she have to ignore some of the parts of Islam that are violent and hateful against non-believers. Sharia and Jihad are inseparable parts of Islam. Separating one of these would again mean that Allah was wrong. Not possible. Many of the violent, hateful fundamentalists are actually the true Muslims that really respect every single piece of information in the books..

 

Also, Muslims can (and are encouraged to) lie to non-believers if it serves the purpose of Islam. With this in mind, a "reformation" could be just another lie that would help to spread Islam around the world.

 

One more important thing I want to say is that according to the laws of the EU and my country, Islam is an illegal ideology because it violates civil-rights in our constitution (such as free speech) and other laws. Yet, our politicians are unable to come to an agreement what should be done about it.

 

So there we go...

 

you don't really know what you're talking about.

[Tatdylf]

Cartoonist Jason Shiga's thoughts on Charlie Hebdo:

http://www.shigabooks.com/newscomments.php?post=739

[Lane Visitor]

This thread is on fiyyyyaaahhhh!!!!!

Anybody wanna joust? Lets go right now.. #CharlieHebdoThreadGameChangerYolo

 

This shit is imminent in case u dont know by now.

 

Come @ me bros, debate me bros!

 

DO U EVEN LIFT?

 

DO U EVEN WATMM?

 

New Release Speculation Based On Mid East Foreign Policy

 

Edit: Post edited 10 x's by LV, yer fav member of the IDM Country Club!

[Allize]

Oh and by the way, while I think Dieudonne and his ilk are reprehensible, unfortunately they still have the right to say that shit.

When they start talking about promoting actual killing of Jews, that's when the shit needs to get cracked down upon.

Let me help you: He doesn't. Any excerpts you see (if you did see) of him saying something so blatantly abject is taken out of context or said on stage by a character he's playing. As I said before, I agree he steps on the line very often but provocation is one of his lines of humor. He frequently does it through ambiguous remarks and jokes. You must also understand his point of view, he's a declared pro-palestinian against the politics of israel, it's a legitimate position completely different from being anti-semitic, that's where the amalgam comes from. Nevertheless I can tell you, as far as I've seen from several interviews, he's a pacifist and against any sort of violence and discrimination. The reason he has gone so far on the jew and israeli subject is because he was attacked by all sides when he did a sketch on national tv incarnating a jewish extremist, specially by the LICRA (International league against racism and anti-semitism) and the LDJ (Jewish League of Defense) wich are very powerfull in France. These organizations tried to ban him and successfully ostracized him from television over a decade ago. Those lobbys keep persecuting him and it's only natural that he fights back (he could've not but he did) hence why I called him courageous. I'm also aware he profits from this but I personally believe he's a legitimate comedian, I know a big variety of his work, and even though I don't feel concerned by his "battle" or even menaced by these groups, I can understand his stand up material on the subject, from his point of view, and I can accept that he monetizes on that. Just as I can see a stand up by kevin hart or dave chappelle and laugh at their jokes about black people and their struggle even though I'm not black. Of course I prefer sketches where he talks about something else, but being that he spends half of his time defending against charges and defamation I understand why he makes his stand ups about those events because he grew a following out of it too - I'm talking about people who support him as an artist under fire, for exercising freedom of expression and his civil liberties, I'm not talking about kids from the suburban ghettos and right wing extremists, no doubt he won a lot of people from those demographics but that's also the fault of those who persecute him, because they give him strenght in that camp too.

He also approaches a series of different topics, so reducing him to an anti-Semitic terrorist is wrong and it's what pisses me off. I understand the common person having this idea about him, but I can't understand how someone that preaches to have some knowledge on the subject reproduces it. You have to ask yourself why someone would do that. Now I aldready write too much, if cwmbracity is a troll trying to push my buttons he succeeded. Adios

[Lane Visitor]

Cmon man, he obsessed with jews, with satirizing them, with hardcore antizionism, with holocaust "politics" & jousts. with everything jew-related.

 

If it walks and talks like one.....

 

Let's not even get into his fascist "Quenelle" bs. It's essentially a modified heil hitler lol.. The idea that this dude is not an anti-semite is flippin preposterous and major LOL

 

And even in the rare case that hes just putting it all on and doesnt harbor those feelings (which is major lol), he still encourages it by spreading ignorance and racism which is just as bad.

[Allize]

The quenelle is the most obvious and popular example of the provocation through ambiguity that I was talking about. It is essentially a scatological sign, meaning to put the hand through an ass (he even has a scale for how deep he puts it) and at the same time it's the reverse of the nazi hand sign, which, logically, conveys automatically the opposite message (It even gets a hand crossing it) so it can't objectively be said to be an anti-semitic gesture because of that. Of course, It was developed after he started all this fuss, so it is a consequence.

[xox]

 

 

islam muslim community needs a reformation but it has to come from within the muslim community

 

 

yeah, but the problem also lies partly in certain aspects of religious practice which are out of touch with the modern world. the practices and philosophies of Islam themselves need development, one cannot expect that a 7th century desert way of life will continue to apply perfectly to the life of a 21st century city dweller.

 

 

examples, please

[Lane Visitor]

The quenelle is the most obvious and popular example of the provocation through ambiguity that I was talking about. It is essentially a scatological sign, meaning to put the hand through an ass (he even has a scale for how deep he puts it) and at the same time it's the reverse of the nazi hand sign, which, logically, conveys automatically the opposite message (It even gets a hand crossing it) so it can't objectively be said to be an anti-semitic gesture because of that. Of course, It was developed after he started all this fuss, so it is a consequence.

All contexts/background aside, the dude's show is centered on jews/ jewish lobby / zionist/jewish "power" and those are his most popular topics....... The dude's most popular branding of his ideas & mission is A REVERSE NAZI SALUTE which encourages to spread as code to say "fuck authority"... The "authority" he speaks of or at least implies in his skits is... JEWISH POWER! It's pretty simple to put together imo lol

[Allize]

 

The quenelle is the most obvious and popular example of the provocation through ambiguity that I was talking about. It is essentially a scatological sign, meaning to put the hand through an ass (he even has a scale for how deep he puts it) and at the same time it's the reverse of the nazi hand sign, which, logically, conveys automatically the opposite message (It even gets a hand crossing it) so it can't objectively be said to be an anti-semitic gesture because of that. Of course, It was developed after he started all this fuss, so it is a consequence.

All contexts/background aside, the dude's show is centered on jews/ jewish lobby / zionist/jewish "power" and those are his most popular topics....... The dude's most popular branding of his ideas & mission is A REVERSE NAZI SALUTE which encourages to spread as code to say "fuck authority"... The "authority" he speaks of in his skits is... JEWISH POWER! It's pretty simple to put together.

 

I already wrote about that... Honestly for now I'm a bit tired of defending dieudonne, I'm not paid for this. I just like things to be neat. To clarify I'm not jewish, muslim, french or his cousin. To me sometimes he's not funny at all, there's a lot of sketches I don't like, sometimes he goes too far (to my sensibility) and I prefer if he didn't insist so much on those topics you mentioned, but it doesn't take away his talent, his merits and his legitimacy to respond with his own weapons to those who harmed him. I can understand why he does it from his perspective. He takes a lot of heat, he must take cortisone shots in the morning. He probably never goes through a day without fear of being shot and assaulted.