French mag Charlie Hebdo attacked by gunmen, 12 dead

[geosmina]

with that attitude, yep

 

ever heard of a self fulfilling prophecy? if it is possible for just one of us to realise there is a problem, then everyone can. it might take some time but it can definately happen because it is literally not impossible.

 

welp, believe me, I really want to live in a tolerant, peaceful world, but, like I said, human nature is something we can't control (yet), morality and stuff like that get eclipsed when basic instincts such as supremacy start to change people attitude. But yea, you're right, each one of us needs to change so the world can change, could it be possible? IMHO... I just hope...

[Schlitze]

These vicious Islams are trying to create an ideology + they want to drag down all the good islams (majority) down into the quagmire with them. They want to tar them with the same brush............and in doing so they are undermining the intelligence of the world.

[Salvatorin]

electronic music fans on the internet have opinions on how to change the world

[chenGOD]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Islamists needs a sense of humor ffs.

pls

yeah was gonna say...

 

extremism =/= islam

 

two different concepts.

but this is islamic extremism, not pacifist extremism. it doesn't make sense to pretend like those are completely separate spheres.

Islamists and Muslims are two different things to me. Muslims love peace, and their god. They recognize Abraham, Moses and Jesus as prophets as well. These aren't Muslims, they are bastardizing that religion for their own purposes. Just like Westboro Church aren't Christians, they're Fundamentalist Extremists. But we can play semantics and terminology games all day.

 

And the gun man left his ID in the getaway car? That's some good planning!

thank you for saving me the time.

 

stop tarring everyone with the same brush. it misses how diverse the issues of our world out. it's taking the the easy way out to just say 'islam is the problem and we need to reform it'

 

how about we reform the society that treats a war based on a lie as something you can get away with. it blows my mind that the status quo is so unbelievably right wing and hawkish that cheney is a free man. all you need to do is look at how he was the former ceo of a company that benefitted hugely from the iraq war. that is corruption, no ifs and no buts. never mind the torture (sorry, enhanced interrogation) and all that. that fact alone is enough to land you in jail with some giant dude balls deep in your tiny white cowardly crack. but nope, it's all okie doke and we're going to allow it. just like we'll allow reagan to fund violent viking like rapists because they hate the commies too.

 

maybe we need to reform the people that think islam is the root of the issue.

Not sure if that was related to my posts but i never said islam is the root of the issue... I said or at least implied that radical Islam is a major factor of extremism & terror.

 

Radical forms of Islam & extremists are certainly separate from Islam as a whole and most Muslims... (Man it gets tiring typing that over and over , having to assure ppl that im not an ignorant fuck)...

 

Cant it be said that certain cultures or the religious infrastructure of certain societies could benefit from change, progress, reform or liberal political movements?

 

I find it funny that the world can lambast and utterly destroy the image of say Christianity as a WHOLE and mock Christians on a daily basis and thats shoulder-shruggable but I cant even mutter a word about an abstract notion of liberal reform as a suggestion in strict Islamic cultures without a knee jerk defensive response. LOL

 

 

Can it be said that moderate Muslims are trying to show that actually, Islam doesn't really need much in way of an overhaul, but that the media needs to stop focusing only on the terrorists?

 

Plus, really? The whole world is lambasting Christianity? Aww does the poor little religion that represents 78% of the adult population in the US need its hand held? The only Christians I tend to mock are the ones who feel as if their belief structure is under attack.

[geosmina]

 

 

with that attitude, yep

 

ever heard of a self fulfilling prophecy? if it is possible for just one of us to realise there is a problem, then everyone can. it might take some time but it can definately happen because it is literally not impossible.

welp, believe me, I really want to live in a tolerant, peaceful world, but, like I said, human nature is something we can't control (yet), morality and stuff like that get eclipsed when basic instincts such as supremacy start to change people attitude. But yea, you're right, each one of us needs to change so the world can change, could it be possible? IMHO... I just hope...

all that stuff about selfishness being human nature and well thats just how it goes etc.. it's been proven false. let me try to find a link..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/24/grotesque-inequality-greed-human-nature-capitalism

 

 

yo will read that, t. hanks

[awepittance]

to no one's surprise, the same 'heroic' french magazine also frequently ran cartoons portraying blacks as monkeys and other caricatures. These screenshots make South Park look like PC liberal friendly light humor.






just might be a good idea to be a little cautious before standing behind these cartoonists. If some Islamic dude killed Stormfront here, it would probably be a really stupid idea to proclaim it was a freedom of speech/censorship issue (unless you're ok with being a racist moron)

edit: or maybe someone could enlighten me, is it socially acceptable to be openly racist in France? Im from the US, so my perspective may be a tad skewed, because here this is definitely not ok.

[Hugh Mughnus]

I think those are meaningless without context.

 

Can you give us some context?

 

For example the second one could have been regarding a black politician or someone that had likened black people to monkeys.

 

So the picture would be ironic.

[awepittance]

lol, yeah im going to go out of my way and actually take time to convince you these aren't racist cartoons

[Hugh Mughnus]

They are meaningless without context. I do believe they are racist cartoons but you posting them without context is similar to other propaganda I see posted around here.

 

Besides, what's your point? Even if the people were blatantly racist, they were attacked and killed over issues pertaining to freedom of expression, not racism.

[Hugh Mughnus]

What's racist about the first cartoon btw? I'm oblivious to this kind of stuff, but I'm curious.

 

Just looks like angry pregnant bald guys

[delet...]

lol @ all the idiots rationalizing the murder of some artists. You could use those arguments about "how we treat them and all that we've done to them", if we are talking about the politicians, think tank wackoes and leaders of the foreign and internal security services getting wacked by IS extremists. It would then be especially salient given the tacit and covert support that they have given in training extremists to go to war for an agenda devised and implemented in the interests of a very narrow section of the upper echelons of western society. But to somehow gloat over these murders of artists and political satirists (and one economist) which attack the heart of western liberal democracy, the concept of free conveyance of ideas. Dear god, pull that politically correct deprogramming chip out of your collective brains before it's too late.

 

watmm outpost of wahhabi extremism, who'd have though it.

[Lane Visitor]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Islamists needs a sense of humor ffs.

pls

yeah was gonna say...

 

extremism =/= islam

 

two different concepts.

but this is islamic extremism, not pacifist extremism. it doesn't make sense to pretend like those are completely separate spheres.

Islamists and Muslims are two different things to me. Muslims love peace, and their god. They recognize Abraham, Moses and Jesus as prophets as well. These aren't Muslims, they are bastardizing that religion for their own purposes. Just like Westboro Church aren't Christians, they're Fundamentalist Extremists. But we can play semantics and terminology games all day.

 

And the gun man left his ID in the getaway car? That's some good planning!

thank you for saving me the time.

 

stop tarring everyone with the same brush. it misses how diverse the issues of our world out. it's taking the the easy way out to just say 'islam is the problem and we need to reform it'

 

how about we reform the society that treats a war based on a lie as something you can get away with. it blows my mind that the status quo is so unbelievably right wing and hawkish that cheney is a free man. all you need to do is look at how he was the former ceo of a company that benefitted hugely from the iraq war. that is corruption, no ifs and no buts. never mind the torture (sorry, enhanced interrogation) and all that. that fact alone is enough to land you in jail with some giant dude balls deep in your tiny white cowardly crack. but nope, it's all okie doke and we're going to allow it. just like we'll allow reagan to fund violent viking like rapists because they hate the commies too.

 

maybe we need to reform the people that think islam is the root of the issue.

Not sure if that was related to my posts but i never said islam is the root of the issue... I said or at least implied that radical Islam is a major factor of extremism & terror.

 

Radical forms of Islam & extremists are certainly separate from Islam as a whole and most Muslims... (Man it gets tiring typing that over and over , having to assure ppl that im not an ignorant fuck)...

 

Cant it be said that certain cultures or the religious infrastructure of certain societies could benefit from change, progress, reform or liberal political movements?

 

I find it funny that the world can lambast and utterly destroy the image of say Christianity as a WHOLE and mock Christians on a daily basis and thats shoulder-shruggable but I cant even mutter a word about an abstract notion of liberal reform as a suggestion in strict Islamic cultures without a knee jerk defensive response. LOL

Can it be said that moderate Muslims are trying to show that actually, Islam doesn't really need much in way of an overhaul, but that the media needs to stop focusing only on the terrorists?

 

Plus, really? The whole world is lambasting Christianity? Aww does the poor little religion that represents 78% of the adult population in the US need its hand held? The only Christians I tend to mock are the ones who feel as if their belief structure is under attack.

Lol whats your point about percentage of xtians in america? So what? If you really wanna go there and play the whole conflict theory / majority vs minority card, Christians are only 30-some % in the religious make up of the entire world, and this is an international forum, so that point is invalid, but thats irrelevant regardless. ps the whole "christians-are-fair-game-cuz-theyre-like-middle-class-white-imperialist-soccer-moms-n-stuff" dialogue is so "uber-hipster / 13-yr old angst / im-so-much-more-cultural-than-you" / bandwagony lol

[delet...]

 

 

 

that looks like a jewish logo next to the monkey so like stephen said, there's probably an whole lot of political and social events of the day background context that goes along with these images and you can't take them at face value. Like for example israeli politicans regularly equating black africans to monkeys.

[roasty]

it's a religion of peace guise :|

[eugene]

 

 

 

 

 

Islamists needs a sense of humor ffs.

pls

yeah was gonna say...

 

extremism =/= islam

 

two different concepts.

but this is islamic extremism, not pacifist extremism. it doesn't make sense to pretend like those are completely separate spheres.

Islamists and Muslims are two different things to me. Muslims love peace, and their god. They recognize Abraham, Moses and Jesus as prophets as well. These aren't Muslims, they are bastardizing that religion for their own purposes. Just like Westboro Church aren't Christians, they're Fundamentalist Extremists. But we can play semantics and terminology games all day.

 

And the gun man left his ID in the getaway car? That's some good planning!

tbh i don't even know wtf "islamists" even are, the important part is that all of those people consider themselves muslims. abraham was a fucking psycho who was ready to sacrifice his son for god and moses took part in crimes against humanity against the egyptians, so i don't see how following those two guys will make someone a peacelover and generally a good bloke.

one could just as easily say that westboro church is the true christianity and the rest are just fakes and pussies who are afraid to be the conducts of god's righteous wrath against homosexuals, abortionists and other scum. who are you to judge? the text allows those kinds of interpretations just as easily. the beginning of all of those religions are those holy texts, and they're fucked up in all kinds of different ways and blatantly contradict the cherished ideals of humanism and human rights countless of times.

sure, some schools of thought manage to emphasize some parts of it and mute the others build very different denominations out of those strains of thought and come up with neat and friendly versions of religions, but in the end those are really fucking dangerous texts especially combined with the sanctity that goes along with them.

[Hugh Mughnus]

Theyve arrested one of the people supposedly involved btw

 

 

 

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/01/07/at-least-11-dead-in-paris-shooting-reports

[delet...]

 

lol @ all the idiots rationalizing the murder of some artists. You could use those arguments about "how we treat them and all that we've done to them", if we are talking about the politicians, think tank wackoes and leaders of the foreign and internal security services getting wacked by IS extremists. It would then be especially salient given the tacit and covert support that they have given in training extremists to go to war for an agenda devised and implemented in the interests of a very narrow section of the upper echelons of western society. But to somehow gloat over these murders of artists and political satirists (and one economist) which attack the heart of western liberal democracy, the concept of free conveyance of ideas. Dear god, pull that politically correct deprogramming chip out of your collective brains before it's too late.

 

watmm outpost of wahhabi extremism, who'd have though it.

no one is rationalising these actions to the point of praising them or anything. no way in hell. i think people are just advising others to not be so irrational in tagging islam as the key problem here.

 

 

They are islamic extremists, using their religion to justify their actions, you can't divorce one from the other. And a broad swathe of people of that faith whilst not violent in their disgust over any slight against their sainted grand pooba and his toilet paper ideologies, would be for shutting down of any 'hate' speech that criticized their precious childhood fairy tales. Those guys didn't go there for a political reason, say to protest violently the annexation of palestine or something, their beef was purely religious in origin and that religion was islam, just like you would call it christian extremisism if some christian militia group shot up someone for taking the lord's name in vain. That would be the banner and the headline, before you dug down to particular sects and what have you. Although i would suggest that the predominance of christians are far more tolerant to criticism of dogma than the followers of pooba are.

[roasty]

why do you have such a hardon for islam MGF

[autopilot]

How many of you have actually personally read the Bible and/or Quran (and which versions) start to finish and can accurately vouch for the contents therein?

 

 

I haven't.

 

[Hugh Mughnus]

I haven't either. I stopped enjoying fairytales when I was about 7 or 8 years old.

[autopilot]

I enjoy outlandish stories, I just prefer them to have space stations, lasers, and/or werewolves.

[usagi]

I wish I was an otter.

[Guest bitroast]

How many of you have actually personally read the Bible and/or Quran (and which versions) start to finish and can accurately vouch for the contents therein?

 

 

I haven't.

 

Not quite what you asked but i've read Robert crumb's Illustrated Book of Genesis, for whatever that's worth.. Even with the fun images it was kind of pointless and simple symbolic story after symbolic story. I can't imagine ever getting around to reading the Bible or Qur'an..

[goDel]

to no one's surprise, the same 'heroic' french magazine also frequently ran cartoons portraying blacks as monkeys and other caricatures. These screenshots make South Park look like PC liberal friendly light humor.

just might be a good idea to be a little cautious before standing behind these cartoonists. If some Islamic dude killed Stormfront here, it would probably be a really stupid idea to proclaim it was a freedom of speech/censorship issue (unless you're ok with being a racist moron)

edit: or maybe someone could enlighten me, is it socially acceptable to be openly racist in France? Im from the US, so my perspective may be a tad skewed, because here this is definitely not ok.

 

Not sure what the texts mean, but it is satire. Which should obviously mean these are exagerations to ridicule something.

 

In the second one a white (!) politician of a nationalist party (with white supremacy roots) is being ridiculed for having made some racial remarks.

 

Seeing these cartoons as racist is basically not getting the satire. Like StephenG says, context is everything. I hope some frenchy will clear this up, but i'm pretty sure these cartoons actually ridicule the kind racism you think they appear to support.

[goDel]

this cartoon was made by an islamic cartoonist. Good to know they have cartoonists as well, btw.