Damogen Furies creative process, DAW, software system?

[awepittance]

you can run an orville through a laptop, im just saying that a lot of the realtime bass guitar to synth stuff is possible in Reaktor there would just be noticeable latency even with an RME card doing a similar technique on an orville or h8000 would have virtually zero latency and would make a lot of sense for a live performance rig. I just dont know how much of the real live bass playing morphed into synth sounds he's doing these days.

[psn]

 

to me the album sounds like it could be equal parts Reaktor and equal parts Eventide orville. Eventide Orville has a Reaktor style DSP under the hood software editor that looks like this

 

He's been pretty clear through several interviews now that pretty much everything is running through the laptop (aside from his QY700 a MIDI box and a RME audio box). Unless you think he's telling porkies?

 

 

The Eventide is visible in recent live videos.

[caze]

 

 

to me the album sounds like it could be equal parts Reaktor and equal parts Eventide orville. Eventide Orville has a Reaktor style DSP under the hood software editor that looks like this

 

He's been pretty clear through several interviews now that pretty much everything is running through the laptop (aside from his QY700 a MIDI box and a RME audio box). Unless you think he's telling porkies?

 

 

The Eventide is visible in recent live videos.

 

 

he might just be using that for the encore bits with bass.

you can run an orville through a laptop, im just saying that a lot of the realtime bass guitar to synth stuff is possible in Reaktor there would just be noticeable latency even with an RME card doing a similar technique on an orville or h8000 would have virtually zero latency and would make a lot of sense for a live performance rig. I just dont know how much of the real live bass playing morphed into synth sounds he's doing these days.

 

i don't think there's any live bass on the album though.

[awepittance]

you're misunderstanding me, well maybe only kind of. There is no bass guitar on the album as far as I can tell either, however Tom has talked extensively about processing his live bass playing to the point of turning into what basically sounds like a synthesizer. At first he seemed to be doing it mostly with some kind of real-time FM processing, where the frets were probably sending midi guitar information to the process he was using. If hes using zero bass guitar on any of this new record, to me it still sounds like that classic mutated heavily effected bass guitar processor he had been using before just maybe taken all the way to 100% effected territory. I could be totally wrong though, it might all be synthesis, it just sounds really similar to me

[caze]

you're misunderstanding me, well maybe only kind of. There is no bass guitar on the album as far as I can tell either, however Tom has talked extensively about processing his live bass playing to the point of turning into what basically sounds like a synthesizer. At first he seemed to be doing it mostly with some kind of real-time FM processing, where the frets were probably sending midi guitar information to the process he was using. If hes using zero bass guitar on any of this new record, to me it still sounds like that classic mutated heavily effected bass guitar processor he had been using before just maybe taken all the way to 100% effected territory. I could be totally wrong though, it might all be synthesis, it just sounds really similar to me

 

no, I understood. just got the impression from the interviews that it's all sequencing and synths with only samples for the beats. the reaktor patches he has for manipulating the live bass could just as easily run over a synth source as much as PCM. it's so dense it's impossible to pick it apart by ear so I'm not basing that on anything I'm hearing. on the other hand he may not want to reveal everything about the album, so who knows.

[psn]

 

 

 

The Eventide is visible in recent live videos.

 

 

he might just be using that for the encore bits with bass.

 

He did set it up for the Rayc Fire 2 Vice session thing, which features no bass guitar.

 

[andihow]

i know he's got a QY700 up there

[awepittance]

he may not want to reveal everything about the album, so who knows.

 

in no way am i saying Tom does this but I don't think its news to anybody that a shit load of electronic musicians mythically build up their production techniques. Some also downright give out fake kit lists and working processes designed to be a red herring like the last few Oval releases (which actually caused several reviewers to compliment Popp's 'guitar processing') when not a single actual guitar is used.

[amad]

 

he may not want to reveal everything about the album, so who knows.

in no way am i saying Tom does this but I don't think its news to anybody that a shit load of electronic musicians mythically build up their production techniques. Some also downright give out fake kit lists and working processes designed to be a red herring like the last few Oval releases (which actually caused several reviewers to compliment Popp's 'guitar processing') when not a single actual guitar is used.

 

you mean something like Tom claiming he made Go Plastic with hardware only? There was this thread here where people thought it was all bs and others saying it was indeed possible [have no position of my own]

[awepittance]

well i don't think he ever said that exactly, but people were under the impression that it was made that way. He often would talk about using an eventide for all the glitchy effects on Go Plastic which is definitely possible, but my take was that to stitch all those edits together he'd need to spend some serious micro editing time in a DAW like Protools. Now the other side to it is that Tom was spotted in a promo video using Cool Edit pro 2.0 around the exact same time period, my theory from the beginning before I heard he used an Eventide was that TOm actually used Cool Edit Pro 2.0 extensively on the album not just for editing but mostly for it's high quality effects. Effects that you probably *could* get on an eventide but sound much more like telltale Cooledit effects, especially that feedbacky delay/echo thing he does on Go Plastic, I've yet to hear any eventide effect that sounds exactly like that, but I can recreate for you in cooledit pretty fast.

[pizza]

Now the other side to it is that Tom was spotted in a promo video using Cool Edit pro 2.0 around the exact same time period, my theory from the beginning before I heard he used an Eventide was that TOm actually used Cool Edit Pro 2.0 extensively on the album not just for editing but mostly for it's high quality effects. Effects that you probably *could* get on an eventide but sound much more like telltale Cooledit effects, especially that feedbacky delay/echo thing he does on Go Plastic, I've yet to hear any eventide effect that sounds exactly like that, but I can recreate for you in cooledit pretty fast.

this was obviously stock footage

[awepittance]

does that change what i said?

[amad]

read the thread last week or something but i remember this exact stock footage controversy lol

[awepittance]

whats weird to me is that people vehemently arguing against the premise seem to think that Cooledit 2.0 is some kind of amateur ass music making program or something. Anyone who has used it knows this isn't the case, just like many of the top tier producers who only use Fruityloops.

[amad]

woah could you please elaborate further? have some prejudice against FL myself (which i'm willing to dispose of), which top tier producers use it and why?

[Adieu]

Wisp uses FL and he's top tier in my eyes. It ain't the DAW or the gear that makes the musician. Everyone knows that.

[amad]

yeah but my thoughts were more about the restrictions imposed by the way the software is built vs its advantages of speeding up workflow and diversity of options to manipulate sound etc

 

also not familiar with Wisp. which of his tracks could be a good example of production and intro to his sound?

[Adieu]

Yeah, but there is a baseline of capability with DAW's that most hit which makes them all capable of producing good material with the right composer. Beyond that in my opinion it's the desire of the composer to push the limits of the software. It's generally not about efficiency etc., because your skill with the program with determine that. Same with Vibert and Flylo using Reason. That isn't to say that there aren't inherent benefits and restraints to different types of software.

 

Anyway, I feel like I'm kind of derailing, because there are people contributing to this thread with actual firsthand knowledge of a lot of gear and software that I do not have.

 

 

https://soundcloud.com/dwaallicht/sandsifted

 

 

https://soundcloud.com/dwaallicht/twin-lakes

 

There are probably better examples.

[awepittance]

fruity is still used by quite a lot of people who aren't white who make really good electronic music (just fyi). It amuses me when people look down on DAWs, In fact I amused myself when I used to see live as a shitty extremely limited plush kids toy DAW. I don't see it that way anymore, i figured out how to get around most its limitations.

[sheatheman]

i belief he had used electronia process such is sampling and maybe soft synth and FL project

[MisterE]

lol

 

anyway, cooledit was tits in its day, 2.0 especially

[awepittance]

are there any clear screenshots of the Squarepusher reaktor patches he projected at the various shows? I didn't mean to derail the thread, and I can probably more positively contribute if we could actually see the actual patch guts

[ascdi]

Interesting chats. That Orville editor looks hardcore.

 

I'm curious in what way an Orville could be lower-latency than a Reaktor patch running on a sufficiently beefy system. You mean like if it was doing pitch-tracking to convert bass playing into MIDI data? Otherwise the buffer size is the buffer size, yes?

 

I do think this album sounds a lot more "softwarey" than previous ones, although that could just be my imagination knowing that it was made with a significant amount of software.

 

I can definitely hear that the component sounds and some of the style are Ufabulum-esque, but the mix sounds completely different to my ears. It's got a more squishy forgiving sound that I (perhaps wrongly) associate with in-the-box mixing and processing. Whereas Ufabulum has that real edgy, trebly "knock" (for example, in the really harsh Squarepusher-style compression attack) that I associate with hardware.

 

I'd love to know how some of these synth gadgets work though. For example, the Excitebike synth seems to have some real chaotic feedback / instability to its sound beyond just playing an edgy tone at a given pitch. Really curious how that's implemented.

[weakmassive]

These aren't clear or of the guts, but you can see a bit of the UI he's working with. Looks like he's got Reaktor on one laptop but can't tell the other one - maybe another copy of Reaktor. And the Q700 in the middle.

 

 

From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-rhK4l6Ado

[pizza]

"This video is private" :(