Squarp Pyramid

[plastic]

Hello, all. Couldn't find a thread dedicated to this new sequencer I just found out about, so I figured I'd start one out.

 

It looks amazing. It seems to have everything I ever wanted in a hardware sequencer:

 

• midi fx - especially MIDI delay -- you can make some whack shit with MIDI delay and a monosynth
• long pattern length - Why is it always just 64 steps? How about 64 bars? Yeah that's more like it.
• individual lengths and time signatures
• cv and midi - strangely only looks like 1 or two outputs, unfortunately. For something that looks to bill itself as a central hub for MIDI output that seems a little silly
• use of standard MIDI files - so I can just drop them in the machine from my laptop. No matter what, a laptop will always be best for managing MIDI in the studio.

 

Seems kind of unclear whether it could be a live MIDI looping device via an external controller, though, which would just about make it perfect. Also it's unclear how many "songs" you can have loaded at once and how easy it is to switch between them.

 

Anyone getting one?!

[kcinsu]

I've been watching this since the first announcement... Very intrigued... I'll wait until it's out for awhile and thourough reviews are done.

[awepittance]

Hello, all. Couldn't find a thread dedicated to this new sequencer I just found out about, so I figured I'd start one out.

 

It looks amazing. It seems to have everything I ever wanted in a hardware sequencer:

 

• midi fx - especially MIDI delay -- you can make some whack shit with MIDI delay and a monosynth
• long pattern length - Why is it always just 64 steps? How about 64 bars? Yeah that's more like it.
• individual lengths and time signatures
• cv and midi - strangely only looks like 1 or two outputs, unfortunately. For something that looks to bill itself as a central hub for MIDI output that seems a little silly
• use of standard MIDI files - so I can just drop them in the machine from my laptop. No matter what, a laptop will always be best for managing MIDI in the studio.

 

Seems kind of unclear whether it could be a live MIDI looping device via an external controller, though, which would just about make it perfect. Also it's unclear how many "songs" you can have loaded at once and how easy it is to switch between them.

 

Anyone getting one?!

i have no problem with a 'central midi hub' type of device only having one midi output, i figure most people including me are ok with daisy chaining and if they run out of Thru ports, a midi thru box or router is a good thing to have regardless for any intensive hardware based midi setup. If it does CV out and only has one out, thats another story. I'd be curious to see how in depth the CV out functions are. One CV out (even if its stereo) is an annoying way to use CV imo, even the Analog4 is just a pain in the ass to have to always use some kind of splitter or adaptor to get 4 cv outs ( they have 2 stereo outs instead of 4 mono outs)

[TubularCorporation]

i have no problem with a 'central midi hub' type of device only having one midi output, i figure most people including me are ok with daisy chaining and if they run out of Thru ports, a midi thru box or router is a good thing to have regardless for any intensive hardware based midi setup.

 

 

I'll always take paralell outputs over daisy chaining when I have a choice. Midi is a slow, serial protocol, the less data any one cable has to carry the better.

 

This thing looks great though, if I had the budget for it I'd be really tempted.

[BCM]

I've got a 5 way midi thru splitter box, invaluable.

[TubularCorporation]

I've got a 5 way midi thru splitter box, invaluable.

Yeah, since I went hardware a couple of years ago I've got an old MOTU Midi Xpress XT that I use standalone for routing and filtering the MIDI coming out of and old MPC2kxl with only one or two pieces of hardware on any given output, works great.

[Ragnar]

thought this would be some kinda weird electro song but then I realized it was EKT not YLC

[Ragnar]

or as I should originally have said MIND IF I USE THAT FOR A SONG TITLEBRO

 

 

maybe I will avoid copyright by calling the track rectangulap pyramid

[auxien]

hm okay so it's going relatively well so far but i've not really used it to any of its vast capacity yet. basically just been doing some basic use of programming/playing in patterns, editing those, muting/unmuting, and utilizing a fair amount of the MIDI effects (often for scale constraints, for arpeggiations, randomness, etc). i haven't been stringing together full on 'songs', which you definitely can do with it and relatively easily...because i've still been pretty heavily into jamming-while-recording mode with the stuff i've been working on the last six months, so triggering patterns on the fly has been most of my experience with it so far.

i haven't used it to trigger my Rytm or A4 at all actually, beyond the start/stop/BPM (everything is slaved to the Squarp for those global things). i've read some of that program change stuff too so i'd guess that's the case, but that might also depend on the Elektron box's settings (if the patterns are set to only change at the end of a pattern, at the end of a bar, or immediately) but i've not tried this....again, jamming-while-recording mode so i've been triggering those changes manually on the Elektron boxes themselves (tho they're tied together so when i change a pattern on the Rytm it then changes to the same pattern on the A4). may be trying some of that soon, been re-routing things this weekend for the next stuff i've got in my head to do, will definitely report back here with how that goes, hopefully this week if i don't get distracted.

edit: RIP Ragnar

Edited January 6, 2020 by auxien

[auxien]

rant ahead:

i'm trying to do complex and coordinated songs for some new stuff lately and really digging in deeper with the Pyramid. and i am getting my head around it slowly, and the more you do it the easier it becomes of course, but fuck does it get tricky to really set up and tweak and edit multiple layers of portions of a song in a hardware context. not necessarily directed at the Pyramid as i'd assume any hardware sequencer would be close to this difficult for the level of complexity i'm going for, but what's really fucking my head over right now is doing a full song layout on the pyramid as well as having to also do a full song layout on the Rytm separately (see ^issues with program change re: Elektron boxes above...i'm doing all my Rytm programming on that machine and not via Pyramid...maybe this is part of the bigger issue?) is really making me miss just sequencing in Ableton. for this type of songwriting with my current equipment, it's really a fucking pain in the ass.

and further, we're not talking about nearly as complex and granular as i could get in a daw....i'm talking about just essentially mutes/patterns/tracks changing over the course of a 6 minute song or whatever. i'm not programming in dozens of individual instrument tweaks/live improv-type modifications (the Pyramid could handle much of that if i put in the effort but ffs i'm already in over my head) that i'll be doing while recording the track...

rant over.

lesson is, sequencing complex songs is a pain, doing it on hardware does not seem to be any easier or more fun....so just write simple songs that make people dance, no one cares about that extra kick drum on the 13th step in the third cycle of that twelfth pattern right before the arp comes in. (except they do. i do, i care )

 

edit: wow, the replies to views ratio looks pretty skewed to peepers here. go buy some of my music while yr ignoring my rant: tsrono.bandcamp.com

Edited February 2, 2021 by auxien

[Petajaja]

I feel you 100% on this, I had a Pyramid as my main sequencer for a while after using a QY700 / RS700 before that (which were better in some ways)

I too just found the Pyramid a pain for making complex music.. The song mode is way too rigid and its too difficult to keep track of all your ccs and the one off notes you have in a song. I eventually gave up on it because it's just too limiting for the things I wanted to do and I've actually found that going ITB for my sequencing (currently using loomer architect) is actually easier for me in pretty much every regard other than me missing the tactility of it which isn't a hard problem to solve with a controller or something.

The funniest thing about my move to ITB is that my midi timing is actually so much better, for example if I need to send a sample start point message, I need it to arrive before the note on, With the pyramid I was getting irregular results which made this a technique I pretty much couldn't use where as with Architect I can have a sequence where each triggered sample has a different start point and I can then play this back at 999bpm and the results are always the same.

I think there's probably very few hardware sequencers that truly offer better timing than using a computer and despite being such an advocate for hardware sequencing for years, I actually can't really say that much good about them over good software.

[auxien]

yeah, having 'one off notes' was a thing i was used to doing regularly in a DAW, and i've occasionally done similar, or at least to a similar effect, when recording live by just physically playing in things while recording. ITB would definitely be easier in some ways for what i'm doing with these most recent songs, and i think i'm learning some better workflows and setups for the Pyramid in the meantime...and reading a bit about setting things up more towards the 'complex arrangement' that may help some amount if i'm understanding things correctly, but i need to do some more reading and testing of course.

with the MIDI timing you're mentioning, you're talking about all ITB tho right? i think i remember you mentioning Loomer in a previous thread, it's all software yeah? you're not controlling external gear i'm assuming...i mean idk what kind of latency a DAW routed to controlling external gear would get (well, i'd definitely done it for a while actually but i've forgotten specifics beyond it wasn't all that bad)...not sure i could go fully ITB again. hardware controls have me spoiled in various ways.

yeah even with more hardware sequencers popping up over the past few years i think there's still very few that are high level and it's starting to really click fully as to why...that it's probably just better in almost every way to use a computer for that kind of complexity. almost considering something like the Polyend Tracker or i'm half thinking about going back to a DAW with some hardware controller tbh (Ableton/Push 2, Maschine maybe idk) but i doubt it....maybe those options are the best of both worlds, perhaps.

[Petajaja]

One thing that really helped me get more out of the Pyramid is to take advantage of the Pyramidi stuff, Muting / unmuting tracks with CC and flicking back and forth between various patterns with CC, I liked that you could set the behavior of tracks to either restart or be always running in the background but I wished there was a gated mode too.

I actually only use my computer for sequencing and nothing else, I'm controlling up to about 10 pieces of gear and so far have not had any issues with timing at all or at least, much less so than when I was using the Pyramid for certain things. I too could never go fully ITB either in that I find the whole process inspiring.

I do miss the tactility of a hardware sequencer though! I'm looking into options of what'd be a flexible controller to use together with Architect.

I actually have the Tracker too, I really like it but it's also massively underpowered compared to a computer, I don't think it'd be that much a better option for complex sequencing than the pyramid but on the other hand, it'd make those random flourishes a lot easier. One thing to note with it though is that it's pretty buggy as it currently stands, I've decided to put mine away until it stabilizes a bit.

I'd give Architect a go if it appeals to you at all, I'm actually stupid when it comes to computers and I've really not found the learning curve bad at all, somehow I find it much easier to structure tracks in it compared to a DAW and infinitely so compared to hardware sequencing.

[auxien]

On 2/8/2021 at 12:19 PM, Petajaja said:

One thing that really helped me get more out of the Pyramid is to take advantage of the Pyramidi stuff, Muting / unmuting tracks with CC and flicking back and forth between various patterns with CC

that sort of thing does sound really powerful, and i was considering getting a Blokas MIDIHub to use as well, getting into some really weird highly manipulative stuff between them. 

On 2/8/2021 at 12:19 PM, Petajaja said:

I actually only use my computer for sequencing and nothing else, I'm controlling up to about 10 pieces of gear and so far have not had any issues with timing at all or at least, much less so than when I was using the Pyramid for certain things. I too could never go fully ITB either in that I find the whole process inspiring.

i'd been doing close to that for a few years, using Ableton 9 with a Push (original) while recording into Ableton as well. i also wasn't having any real issues with latency in sending clock/triggering 3-4 bits of hardware. (at least eventually i didn't, i think there was a little hiccup getting it setup initially perhaps). i'm not a stickler in general for having things perfectly in time to the exact millisecond anyway.... before all that,i'd been fully in AudioMulch for years then fully in Ableton for quite a while before i got sick of staring at screens....got the Push and that really triggered my 'oh shit having hardware control is where it's at' moment.

On 2/8/2021 at 12:19 PM, Petajaja said:

I do miss the tactility of a hardware sequencer though! I'm looking into options of what'd be a flexible controller to use together with Architect.

would definitely be curious to hear if you find some good options. Loomer isn't for me as i've already got a strong handle on Ableton with a little time in Max/M4L, plenty of years with AudioMulch, and some small amount of experience with Reaktor...Loomer doesn't seem to offer anything different to things i can get from those, at least from what i've glanced at. (obv if it works for you then great!) but i'm always interested in seeing new MIDI controller options for software control. i really think there's a lot of potential for things getting more interesting there over the next years, i'm seeing hints of it in various software/controller combos.

On 2/8/2021 at 12:19 PM, Petajaja said:

I actually have the Tracker too, I really like it but it's also massively underpowered compared to a computer, I don't think it'd be that much a better option for complex sequencing than the pyramid but on the other hand, it'd make those random flourishes a lot easier. One thing to note with it though is that it's pretty buggy as it currently stands, I've decided to put mine away until it stabilizes a bit.

yeah? are you getting on well with it? i know it's massively underpowered as a hardware controller and i really shouldn't have mentioned it in that context for my wants/needs, i'm pretty sure if i were to get a Tracker i'd be more often using it mostly/entirely standalone. definitely seen others talking about the bugginess with software (and seemingly some amount of QC issues with the hardware, but as far as i've read Polyend is trying to get all of that handled)

On 2/8/2021 at 12:19 PM, Petajaja said:

I'd give Architect a go if it appeals to you at all, I'm actually stupid when it comes to computers and I've really not found the learning curve bad at all, somehow I find it much easier to structure tracks in it compared to a DAW and infinitely so compared to hardware sequencing.

i'm learning that i'm far too dumb/uncommitted to learning new complex software. my skin is crawling just looking at that screenshot on their main info page. you have fun with it tho lol

i would be interested to read why it's easier to structure tracks compared to a DAW (is there a good thread on KVR that goes into this?)

anyway, Squarp-wise i've had some issues i've not detailed in here so in general i'm still working with it and seeing how this current learning curve i'm in goes, but i'm considering dropping it this year tbh, unless some stuff really clicks here soon.

[Petajaja]

It's funny that you keep mentioning things I own / have owned haha.. I have the Blokas midihub too (shifted a lot of gear around last year) and it's a really great box, I probably would've bought a cheaper solution if I'd known I was going to end up using Architect as I can do all the things I'd use it for within it but I bought it when I owned the Pyramid and it adds some incredible features which you can also sequence from your pyramid (things can get very crazy like this!)

I'll let you know if I find anything good in terms of controllers, I'm hoping to find something that'll kind of match Architects level of flexibility so I can set up a number of different ways of the two interfacing with each other. There's some MPE controllers that look like they could potentially be interesting in this regard.

I really enjoy the Tracker, if you're looking for something self contained, I can't actually imagine it getting much better than this. Out of all the gear I have, it is the best / fastest at doing interesting things with samples so I tend to use it for textural stuff when using it together with the rest of my music stuff. I got mine from the first batch and have had no complaints about hardware at all, the software is definitely on the buggy side but they're also constantly working on it which I admire them for, they've also added a ton of really good new features since release and apparently still have big plans for it so I'm sure it'll mature into something very special. The majority of people I've heard from who own one absolutely love theirs, I'm sure you would too if the tracker approach appeals to you.

Haha, yeah that screenshot does not do it justice and tbh, if you saw any of my patches, you'd probably run a mile as they are a mess! but still, it clicked really fast for me and I find it enjoyable to work with. The reason I find it easier to structure things in it is because in my tracks, things usually happen as a result of something else and this kind of approach is really easy to set up within Architect, like for example, I can set up a counter that counts the number of steps that've passed and then I can use that number to trigger various events rather than placing events on a linear grid. For some reason, typing in a bunch of numbers as to when things will happen makes a lot more sense to me. I think the things I do could probably be done a lot easier / faster in something else though!

Back to the Pyramid, I just hear that they're working on a new firmware 4.0 for it, maybe that'll sort out a bunch of my perceived short comings as they've said that it'll be focusing more on stability and that kind of thing (I think they'll probably improve the song mode too) 

 

[thawkins]

Just wanted to say thanks @Petajajaand @auxien for these posts. I don't have much to add atm but it's interesting to read about different approaches.

[auxien]

7 hours ago, Petajaja said:

It's funny that you keep mentioning things I own / have owned haha.. I have the Blokas midihub too (shifted a lot of gear around last year) and it's a really great box, I probably would've bought a cheaper solution if I'd known I was going to end up using Architect as I can do all the things I'd use it for within it but I bought it when I owned the Pyramid and it adds some incredible features which you can also sequence from your pyramid (things can get very crazy like this!)

yeah, really intrigued by the possibilities there, tweaking the Blokas with some weird stuff then using it with the Pyramid and PyraMIDI funcitonality... can see that getting super crazy and creative. 

i'm thinking of still getting a MIDIHub to use for doing weirdo shit whether or not i stick with the Pyramid tho...i'm not planning on dropping all my hardware synths

7 hours ago, Petajaja said:

I'll let you know if I find anything good in terms of controllers, I'm hoping to find something that'll kind of match Architects level of flexibility so I can set up a number of different ways of the two interfacing with each other. There's some MPE controllers that look like they could potentially be interesting in this regard.

for sure! personally i'm interested in seeing the 3rd party MIDI controllers start implementing more MPE functionality in unique ways and of course the coming MIDI 2.0 stuff perhaps...should be really fun over the next few years as all this starts to roll out

7 hours ago, Petajaja said:

I really enjoy the Tracker, if you're looking for something self contained, I can't actually imagine it getting much better than this. Out of all the gear I have, it is the best / fastest at doing interesting things with samples so I tend to use it for textural stuff when using it together with the rest of my music stuff. I got mine from the first batch and have had no complaints about hardware at all, the software is definitely on the buggy side but they're also constantly working on it which I admire them for, they've also added a ton of really good new features since release and apparently still have big plans for it so I'm sure it'll mature into something very special. The majority of people I've heard from who own one absolutely love theirs, I'm sure you would too if the tracker approach appeals to you.

been well into the Elektron sequencing style with my Rytm, but having even more tweakability shown on a screen is better for me with more complex/preformed idea stuff....but having that in a small package for some straight-forward and self-contained ideas i think is what appeals most about the Tracker. those issues with software/hardware definitely are giving me pause tho...plus i've just got too much gear currently anyway tbh. i can afford to wait and see where it goes (or wait for the prices to drop lol)

7 hours ago, Petajaja said:

Haha, yeah that screenshot does not do it justice and tbh, if you saw any of my patches, you'd probably run a mile as they are a mess! but still, it clicked really fast for me and I find it enjoyable to work with. The reason I find it easier to structure things in it is because in my tracks, things usually happen as a result of something else and this kind of approach is really easy to set up within Architect, like for example, I can set up a counter that counts the number of steps that've passed and then I can use that number to trigger various events rather than placing events on a linear grid. For some reason, typing in a bunch of numbers as to when things will happen makes a lot more sense to me. I think the things I do could probably be done a lot easier / faster in something else though!

that 'one thing happening as a result of something else and/or after some fixed time/condition' is where i'd love to explore with music, been saying that for years...i thought i could get there with Max/M4L but it's a little over my head, so sorta resigning myself to the slightly dumbed down versions of it and replicating that in ways with the simpler tools available to me, namely just jamming and finding those bits of magic then replicating the timeline that lead to that....but also now seeing things with Live 10/11's follow actions expansion has really opened up some avenues that way, at least in theory. upgraded to Live 10 but not much used it yet as i'm seeing how things go with my Pyramid for now. had gotten toward touching those separating music from the linear grid with Ableton previously (incorporating lots of M4L devices) but never got as close to it as it seems you're getting with Architect...i'm pretty sure anything of that complexity is going to take some amount of time no matter the platform really.

7 hours ago, Petajaja said:

Back to the Pyramid, I just hear that they're working on a new firmware 4.0 for it, maybe that'll sort out a bunch of my perceived short comings as they've said that it'll be focusing more on stability and that kind of thing (I think they'll probably improve the song mode too) 

yeah the beta for 4.0 is out to users that had requested it...apparently there's absolutely nothing new in tho. it's all optimization and bug fixes. which is great, don't get me wrong....but was definitely hoping for a few new features that they've stated would be on the way in a future update. i think it's just a small team and they've been spending a lot of the last year or so on the Eurorack stuff they're doing. (and part of me is thinking they're going to do a Pyramid 2 sometime relatively soon, but that's just pure speculation on my part) the Pyramid already does so so much that i know i sound like an asshole asking for more, but ultimately i think it (or any hardware sequencer) may just end up being a little too limiting for what i'm wanting to do at least some of the time. it's been great for the quicker/simpler/live-jam stuff over the last year or two (and i've got some more to do with it now still) but i'm kinda thinking the writing is on the wall for me with it.

2 hours ago, thawkins said:

Just wanted to say thanks @Petajajaand @auxien for these posts. I don't have much to add atm but it's interesting to read about different approaches.

for sure!