YangYing Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 can we move on to the very exciting derailing questions i posted on the last page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bechuga Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Limpyloo's poker games must go on for days if this thread is anything to go by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 so wait...you set it up so it's (B, A)? If Firm A produces at 1/2 monopoly output and Firm B produces at 2/3 monopoly output what do you think each firms' respective payouts will be? FIRM A's OUTPUT One-half Two-Thirds Monopoly Monopoly Profit Profit F O One-half I U Monopoly 20|20 15|22 R T Profit M P U B' T Two-thirds s Monopoly 22|15 17|17 Profit so you're saying the payouts are (B,A)? are you sure YOU'RE not misreading the matrix? 100% sure. If both firms are producing at 1/2 then the payout is 20/20. If both firms are producing at 2/3, then the payout is 17/17. If Firm A produces at 1/2 monopoly output and Firm B produces at 2/3 monopoly output, (ie bottom left quadrant) Then Firm A's payout is 15 while Firm B's payout is 22. edit: yes the payout is (B,A) alright well i hope you understand that that's confusing and i'm not saying you're being disingenuous or anything but in the future maybe give some warning if you're gonna do something arbitrary and confusing like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I think I said it in the first post. Regardless, you should be able to tell easily that the Nash equilibrium is 17/17. oh-2 got it in one try, so it can't have been that confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 real talk, Chen: are you sure that you actually intended to put it (B,A) for some weird nebulous reason? or are you just trying to save face? because you're not dumb and while admitting being mistaken is potentially uncomfortable this is just some obscure game and the stakes are super low i was more than happy to admit i was wrong a couple times, here... Firm B's output will be on the left and firm A's output will be on the right in each quadrant (since I can't do tables in the board there will be no lines, so hopefully this is clear) nope you're right, i didn't read this part my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh2 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 i did misread it at first too, but i hadn't taken my morning toke yet. also conventionally matrices are read (Row,Column) so (B,A) does make the most sense technically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 i did misread it at first too, but i hadn't taken my morning toke yet. also conventionally matrices are read (Row,Column) so (B,A) does make the most sense technically then Chen should've called Firm A "Firm B" and vice versa Chen pls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 alright, so I'm curious: what do y'all think about Newcomb's Paradox? (and, similarly, Parfit's Hitchhiker) i find it really interesting to see people's thought processes on this all the 'classical' decision theories fail to solve them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Foil Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPMHnF9n-vo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 i didn't think game theory was interesting as a concept until i saw the way it was described in The Trap by adam curtis in its relationship to the cold war. Its helped me figure out which neocons are doing the most damage. don't understand why they thread got so graduate student so fast, sorry guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 i didn't think game theory was interesting as a concept until i saw the way it was described in The Trap by adam curtis in its relationship to the cold war. Its helped me figure out which neocons are doing the most damage. don't understand why they thread got so graduate student so fast, sorry guys yeah i had a similar experience started out studying it grudgingly when i set out to take poker seriously realized it wasn't all academic wankery then found it immensely interesting from nuclear war to free breaksticks it applies quite broadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Curtis' view on Game Theory was nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace 7 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 a mathematical discipline articulated by John Nash and other early pioneers in the fields of discrete math and computer science. used to describe the interactions of complex elements in various 'states of play', like a 'game'. often cited by pretentious cunts in discussions to which it is not particularly relevant or enlightening, because of its appeal in popular science. Yah, I imagine this is actually sort of true. Here's the top part of a flyer I designed a couple years ago for a Tokyo University thing: So after designing that, I went pirate mode and downloaded a few books on game theory-- the most interesting part for me was the potential for a totally different method on how one could approach life. By applying game theory and related maths to everyday events and even long term goals, I realized that life could be executed very much like an RPG-- as in, living one's life like playing Dungeon's and Dragons. For those of you who are reverse-hippie, anti-vibe, and prefer cold and calculated orgasms, I recommend life with game theory application. You might do quite well, quite easily. oh, how would game theory apply to, for example, say.. your next post on this thread? edit: and how would the post look if we instead used reverse-hippie and/or anti-vibe principals? edit2: I ask because I want to do well in life and haven't been able to decide how to approach life or if it should be approached at all or if just nothing is real and shit like that, u know, like posting on idm forums. -Game theory cannot apply to my posts, because my intention to post is a self-fulfilling prophecy of merely expressing and posting; any resultant outcome irrelevant. Therefore, success rate will always be 100%, whether I post or not. Further, I believe my posts are not a choice between posting and not posting-- they are an absolute definite in both dimensions, so if some matrix were to be applied, it would be a 1x1 grid, with no choice possible. -A totally reverse-hippie and anti-vibe, cold and calculated post would be highly researched and posted with intent for definite gain; possibly for money, without any desire to spend it on anything specifically (an abstract gain of an arbitrary measure of value, with no personal interest involved, yet with the intellectual understanding of others' desire for the concept of money). -Basically the post of an intelligent hardcore sociopath, with a distant sense of community and value. -I believe it's best to live life sincerely, and just follow what you feel to be true in your heart. That is the only way to travel on the path of continued personal growth, which will ultimately result in the realization of an environment and lifestyle where you are truly happy. But that concept can be applied with game theory as method, if you're into working out all perceived choices and potential outcomes for the situations in your life that seem important (and literally make a book of all your choices). In very natural living, people tend to just fuck up in minor ways a bunch of times, and if smart, they learn from their mistakes and make choices that improve life quality. But game theory is a way to actually THINK AND ANALYZE VERY CONSCIOUSLY AND DEEPLY BEFORE ACTING, which might take away the necessity of learning from mistakes, by being able to logically prevent them. Because of this use of conscious logic (instead of memory/body/sex-logic based on pure emotion, hormonal fluctuations, and impulse), rapid, rapid forward progression is possible. The only trouble is that it requires some very difficult qualities, namely: caring to change, going against what feels natural, and thinking. It's amazing how difficult those qualities are to attain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (not that he explained the bit he used wrong, but he just focused on one game and used it deride all of modern civilisation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YangYing Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 a mathematical discipline articulated by John Nash and other early pioneers in the fields of discrete math and computer science. used to describe the interactions of complex elements in various 'states of play', like a 'game'. often cited by pretentious cunts in discussions to which it is not particularly relevant or enlightening, because of its appeal in popular science. Yah, I imagine this is actually sort of true. Here's the top part of a flyer I designed a couple years ago for a Tokyo University thing: So after designing that, I went pirate mode and downloaded a few books on game theory-- the most interesting part for me was the potential for a totally different method on how one could approach life. By applying game theory and related maths to everyday events and even long term goals, I realized that life could be executed very much like an RPG-- as in, living one's life like playing Dungeon's and Dragons. For those of you who are reverse-hippie, anti-vibe, and prefer cold and calculated orgasms, I recommend life with game theory application. You might do quite well, quite easily. oh, how would game theory apply to, for example, say.. your next post on this thread? edit: and how would the post look if we instead used reverse-hippie and/or anti-vibe principals? edit2: I ask because I want to do well in life and haven't been able to decide how to approach life or if it should be approached at all or if just nothing is real and shit like that, u know, like posting on idm forums. -Game theory cannot apply to my posts, because my intention to post is a self-fulfilling prophecy of merely expressing and posting; any resultant outcome irrelevant. Therefore, success rate will always be 100%, whether I post or not. Further, I believe my posts are not a choice between posting and not posting-- they are an absolute definite in both dimensions, so if some matrix were to be applied, it would be a 1x1 grid, with no choice possible. -A totally reverse-hippie and anti-vibe, cold and calculated post would be highly researched and posted with intent for definite gain; possibly for money, without any desire to spend it on anything specifically (an abstract gain of an arbitrary measure of value, with no personal interest involved, yet with the intellectual understanding of others' desire for the concept of money). -Basically the post of an intelligent hardcore sociopath, with a distant sense of community and value. -I believe it's best to live life sincerely, and just follow what you feel to be true in your heart. That is the only way to travel on the path of continued personal growth, which will ultimately result in the realization of an environment and lifestyle where you are truly happy. But that concept can be applied with game theory as method, if you're into working out all perceived choices and potential outcomes for the situations in your life that seem important (and literally make a book of all your choices). In very natural living, people tend to just fuck up in minor ways a bunch of times, and if smart, they learn from their mistakes and make choices that improve life quality. But game theory is a way to actually THINK AND ANALYZE VERY CONSCIOUSLY AND DEEPLY BEFORE ACTING, which might take away the necessity of learning from mistakes, by being able to logically prevent them. Because of this use of conscious logic (instead of memory/body/sex-logic based on pure emotion, hormonal fluctuations, and impulse), rapid, rapid forward progression is possible. The only trouble is that it requires some very difficult qualities, namely: caring to change, going against what feels natural, and thinking. It's amazing how difficult those qualities are to attain. from this post I deduce you are about 1,6 meters tall and have brown hair. I quite like bassdrums, and I also think that I am attracted to men after reading your post. would you like to meet in my owl cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 i didn't think game theory was interesting as a concept until i saw the way it was described in The Trap by adam curtis in its relationship to the cold war. Its helped me figure out which neocons are doing the most damage. don't understand why they thread got so graduate student so fast, sorry guys Graduate student? The example i gave is from Econ 101 (or Introduction to Microeconomics, or whatever first year econ classes are called in a particular school). Graduate level econ is insanely difficult, I wimped out after auditing one class. Game theory is very useful in international relations, and was used heavily in the Cold War and also by McNamara as secretary of defense (the decision to place him in that office was ridiculous for many reasons). And limpy, no, I labeled the matrix and the firms correctly. I believe that oh-2 is trying to clarify for you the standard way of reading matrices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 i didn't think game theory was interesting as a concept until i saw the way it was described in The Trap by adam curtis in its relationship to the cold war. Its helped me figure out which neocons are doing the most damage. don't understand why they thread got so graduate student so fast, sorry guys Graduate student? The example i gave is from Econ 101 (or Introduction to Microeconomics, or whatever first year econ classes are called in a particular school). Graduate level econ is insanely difficult, I wimped out after auditing one class. Game theory is very useful in international relations, and was used heavily in the Cold War and also by McNamara as secretary of defense (the decision to place him in that office was ridiculous for many reasons). And limpy, no, I labeled the matrix and the firms correctly. I believe that oh-2 is trying to clarify for you the standard way of reading matrices. yeah i know (oh2 also said he initially misread it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YangYing Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 don't understand why they thread got so graduate student so fast, sorry guysno need to apologize, this is the most thread I have read since I joined I think. now people, time to answer the real game theory questions like for example, can it be used as a wall insulation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace 7 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Shit, that reminds me that I knew a guy in high school who was so into Scooter. Oh, Scooter... Where does the time go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 this is one of the most insane threads i have read here, you are all psychopaths (expect blank, hes innocent here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The ultimate game theory tune. Can't believe it hasn't been posted yet. After watching half of it, your mind will be in an eternal state of Nash equilibrium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace 7 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The ultimate game theory tune. Can't believe it hasn't been posted yet. After watching half of it, your mind will be in an eternal state of Nash equilibrium. HOLY FUCK!!! For a short while, this syncs up to The Price Is Right theme!!! (press play above then immediately below to become IDM Magick): [youtubehd]2fv8WSAFFog[/youtubehd] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 never heard this tune before, it's great. only 23 mins in, want to keep listening but I've got other shit to do unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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