Why do douchebags like new drum n bass?

[Ivan Ooze]

not a big d and b fan, hate it when they use those same friggin patterns they did 20 years ago, well maybe current value gets a pass

exile - pro agonist was some next level shit and goldie timeless is indestructable

[purlieu]

 

So then I got to thinking that maybe his "shit" output has actually been just SO FUCKING ULTRA NEXT LEVEL, that there's no way that I could get it on first listen. I don't believe it, but that's the thing, myaaan-- if it's that next level and above my perceptive abilities, I'll never be able to get it. What if Photek has actually become some god level producer in the early 2000's, so nobody can really appreciate his later output?

 

I could almost buy that for some of the stuff on Ku Palm, especially when it's got tracks like this on it:

 

But shit like this...

No, that's just shit.

[Phlexunger]

I think it's important to differentiate two things here.

 

Amazing and beautiful early-mid 90's DnB/jungle with lush pads and phat beats like this:

 

 

 

Corny late 90's - today, douchebag, techboy drum and bass like this:

 

 

 

One is amazing, the latter is for fags

why does new DnB have Eye of the tiger guitar stabs ?

I guess that is the douche call to arms

[ascdi]

I think the same thing happened to Photek that happens to a lot of artists—the work he’s most known for was the product of such sustained, concentrated, insanely focused hard work that it’s just not sustainable. I mean, the amount of time that it must’ve took to assemble classic Photek tracks, so perfectly, with only 90s technology, surely was completely insane. Like, you’d literally have to lock yourself in your basement for a year and never leave in order to do that. I just don’t think most people can keep up that pace.

 

I do have a soft spot for later Photek, though. I will even listen to ‘Deadly Technology’ and the rest sometimes, although obviously it’s not the same. The thing about those tracks is that Photek doesn’t necessarily have the purely musical background (seemingly) for a more “relaxed” compositional process to fall back on. So Deadly Technology and the other stuff is more ordinary, because the initial batch of tracks were more a triumph of production than of “composition”, per se.

 

I don’t mean that as a diss, by the way. That’s why they’re awesome. But if you compare him to say, Squarepusher, it’s clear that TJ can captivate you by what he cooks up locked in the studio for a year, AS WELL AS what he can play on the bass off the dome or some shred jam he comes up with in a day or two.

 

And then there’s something like Shobaleader One, which is not “technical” from a lots-of-drum-notes point of view, but is incredibly carefully composed from a musical/“song” point of view. So that’s another facet of the thing.

 

I think about this a lot because I still want to make music in some way but there’s just no time in my life anymore to participate in the whose-breaks-are-the-most-precisely-chopped arms race. So I have to find my way out of that and into some other place where meaningful music can still be produced that is the product of a less-insane OCD production process.

 

Also computers make everything sound the same and the best-sounding Photek stuff is pre-computer

[Phlexunger]

Does this fit in this thread?

[peace 7]

I think the same thing happened to Photek that happens to a lot of artists—the work he’s most known for was the product of such sustained, concentrated, insanely focused hard work that it’s just not sustainable. I mean, the amount of time that it must’ve took to assemble classic Photek tracks, so perfectly, with only 90s technology, surely was completely insane. Like, you’d literally have to lock yourself in your basement for a year and never leave in order to do that. I just don’t think most people can keep up that pace.

 

I do have a soft spot for later Photek, though. I will even listen to ‘Deadly Technology’ and the rest sometimes, although obviously it’s not the same. The thing about those tracks is that Photek doesn’t necessarily have the purely musical background (seemingly) for a more “relaxed” compositional process to fall back on. So Deadly Technology and the other stuff is more ordinary, because the initial batch of tracks were more a triumph of production than of “composition”, per se.

 

I don’t mean that as a diss, by the way. That’s why they’re awesome. But if you compare him to say, Squarepusher, it’s clear that TJ can captivate you by what he cooks up locked in the studio for a year, AS WELL AS what he can play on the bass off the dome or some shred jam he comes up with in a day or two.

 

And then there’s something like Shobaleader One, which is not “technical” from a lots-of-drum-notes point of view, but is incredibly carefully composed from a musical/“song” point of view. So that’s another facet of the thing.

 

I think about this a lot because I still want to make music in some way but there’s just no time in my life anymore to participate in the whose-breaks-are-the-most-precisely-chopped arms race. So I have to find my way out of that and into some other place where meaningful music can still be produced that is the product of a less-insane OCD production process.

 

Also computers make everything sound the same and the best-sounding Photek stuff is pre-computer

 

I thought this was gonna go into "artists just change" kind of thing, but I thoooght wrooong~~~ The focus aspect is a really good point. Personally- and I believe this is a common phenomenon- there seems to be times of extreme passion and prolific output, especially "in the early years". And then later on, it's like the burnout from stress is so hard on the psyche, that it's tough to even want to work at that level again. For me it's like a sinewave, though, with years of doing jack shit, balanced with times of pulling magic from the ether onto dubplates made of diamond.

 

If Photek ever rides the high point of his sinewave again, as Doc Brown stated: We're gonna see some serious shit.

 

Cuz it does feel great to "come back". Just being fearless and letting go. Not worrying or imagining that anything is going to be other than just sincere expression. Negative imagination of the path can deter one from the path, whether accurate or not.

 

...granted, coming back and not being able to take it is what killed Max's friend Sol in the film π, so when doing it... PREPARATION WITH ALL ONE'S BEING IS A MUST.

[lala]

yeah, would love to hear a return of the old photek. another problem, and it may have been mentioned before, is the beatport grow your own label rubbish

 

i literally have to spend hours to find decent tunes nowadays

 

 

trying to think of some experimental output ive heard in the last few years but im in a pretty shitty mood now so my brain isnt working right

[Adamovich]

D&b has already a very long history with many ups and downs and it's almost impossible to sum up properly the genre in one single forum thread with few yt links and biased opinions...

 

Apart from praising early Parkes' chilled dnb lushness, the harder dnb deserves a lil tribute as well. Like DJ Trace for instance. That's my two cents.

[Npoess]

D&b has already a very long history with many ups and downs and it's almost impossible to sum up properly the genre in one single forum thread with few yt links and biased opinions...

 

Apart from praising early Parkes' chilled dnb lushness, the harder dnb deserves a lil tribute as well. Like DJ Trace for instance. That's my two cents.

 

Yup, pretty much every genre has awful and amazing stuff attached to it. I always found it a bit moronic calling any genre shit, chances are that properly haven't all that it has to offer if you think so.

 

Here's a few more tracks to convince the h8trs.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_G1aiMlO5E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHZ2VEy2RbA

[autopilot]

D&b has already a very long history with many ups and downs and it's almost impossible to sum up properly the genre in one single forum thread with few yt links and biased opinions...

 

Yeah, obviously a genre is going to go through many permutations & quality levels over the course of 20 years. I do really like how the obnoxious premise of the thread title/original post was immediately rejected and disproven with 5 pages of excellent music, though.

[peace 7]

 

D&b has already a very long history with many ups and downs and it's almost impossible to sum up properly the genre in one single forum thread with few yt links and biased opinions...

 

Yeah, obviously a genre is going to go through many permutations & quality levels over the course of 20 years. I do really like how the obnoxious premise of the thread title/original post was immediately rejected and disproven with 5 pages of excellent music, though.

 

 

The premise of this thread hasn't been "disproven"... I didn't state- nor do I feel- that there isn't good new drum n bass. Do you remember mid to late 90's drum n bass? At the time, the good drum n bass that a lot of us still consider good, was also considered THE drum n bass. There was still bad drum n bass, but the good drum n bass, was the main drum n bass. Goldie et al were at the level of popular drum n bass. Good drum n bass was what dominated festivals, as well as the collections of bedroom listeners; even getting coverage on pop scenes like MTV and other music television. Even those kind of retarded compilation CDs, had tracks from J Majik, Dillinja, LTJ Bukem, Roni Size, etc.

 

But now, the difference is that- what has reached the realm of popularly listened to drum n bass and what is considered by pop scenes as "drum n bass", is what many here would consider kind of shit. That's what I meant by "new drum n bass".

[autopilot]

Well I was in grade school in the 90s and didn't really start enjoying drum & bass until hearing the autonomic/minimal stuff that started in 2010 so I'm not nostalgic in the slightest. In my almost 10 years of DJ'ing I've listened to so many washed up DJs lamenting that its not the 90s anymore that I just immediately eschew that complaint as not even worthy of being articulated.

 

In 2008, only good dubstep was called dubstep and now you can't talk about dubstep without a qualifier that you're referring only to the intelligent stuff, so I've seen the same thing happen to a different genre and realized how useless it is to bitch about the inevitability of mainstream lowest-common-denominator stuff being shitty. It's the same in every genre of art, music or otherwise, and shouldn't be surprising or baffling at this point.

[ascdi]

 

I think the same thing happened to Photek that happens to a lot of artists—the work he’s most known for was the product of such sustained, concentrated, insanely focused hard work that it’s just not sustainable. I mean, the amount of time that it must’ve took to assemble classic Photek tracks, so perfectly, with only 90s technology, surely was completely insane. Like, you’d literally have to lock yourself in your basement for a year and never leave in order to do that. I just don’t think most people can keep up that pace.

 

I do have a soft spot for later Photek, though. I will even listen to ‘Deadly Technology’ and the rest sometimes, although obviously it’s not the same. The thing about those tracks is that Photek doesn’t necessarily have the purely musical background (seemingly) for a more “relaxed” compositional process to fall back on. So Deadly Technology and the other stuff is more ordinary, because the initial batch of tracks were more a triumph of production than of “composition”, per se.

 

I don’t mean that as a diss, by the way. That’s why they’re awesome. But if you compare him to say, Squarepusher, it’s clear that TJ can captivate you by what he cooks up locked in the studio for a year, AS WELL AS what he can play on the bass off the dome or some shred jam he comes up with in a day or two.

 

And then there’s something like Shobaleader One, which is not “technical” from a lots-of-drum-notes point of view, but is incredibly carefully composed from a musical/“song” point of view. So that’s another facet of the thing.

 

I think about this a lot because I still want to make music in some way but there’s just no time in my life anymore to participate in the whose-breaks-are-the-most-precisely-chopped arms race. So I have to find my way out of that and into some other place where meaningful music can still be produced that is the product of a less-insane OCD production process.

 

Also computers make everything sound the same and the best-sounding Photek stuff is pre-computer

 

I thought this was gonna go into "artists just change" kind of thing, but I thoooght wrooong~~~ The focus aspect is a really good point. Personally- and I believe this is a common phenomenon- there seems to be times of extreme passion and prolific output, especially "in the early years". And then later on, it's like the burnout from stress is so hard on the psyche, that it's tough to even want to work at that level again. For me it's like a sinewave, though, with years of doing jack shit, balanced with times of pulling magic from the ether onto dubplates made of diamond.

 

If Photek ever rides the high point of his sinewave again, as Doc Brown stated: We're gonna see some serious shit.

 

Cuz it does feel great to "come back". Just being fearless and letting go. Not worrying or imagining that anything is going to be other than just sincere expression. Negative imagination of the path can deter one from the path, whether accurate or not.

 

...granted, coming back and not being able to take it is what killed Max's friend Sol in the film π, so when doing it... PREPARATION WITH ALL ONE'S BEING IS A MUST.

 

 

Yeah, my point of view is sort of like, a lot of the music we really like is very labor-intensive, intricate, “left brain” music. Just like some dude with a mouse and/or a sequencer sitting in a chair and tapping away for hours and hours and hours.

 

Music as a human phenomenon is much more balanced than that I think; many (most?) musical forms involve both some amount of “composition” alongside some amount of “slop”, or human interpretation in the moment, or improvisational interpretation, or whatever. Like on the opposite end of the continuum from Photek is like free jazz or something. Total right brain music that’s made “in real time”.

 

I think it’s hard (maybe even unhealthy?) for a musician to only be able to function in the most cerebral, step-time context, but to let the other facets of their musical skills atrophy or remained undeveloped. Squarepusher is the best example to me because there are insanely “worked over” Squarepusher tracks, as well as jams, as well as everything in between.

 

The “return of analog gear”/acid trend plays into this, I think. Where songs are both “compositions” (in the sense that they may have been programmed very painstakingly), but also “performances” (in the sense that live manipulation/knob tweakage plays a role).

 

I really don’t see that traditional Photek music can contain much of the latter, which makes me wonder if it was just hard to sustain that practice. I mean, it’s just sort of unnatural in a way—to really love music and want to make it but to be forced to make it in like super-duper-slow step-time where you can labor all afternoon over 5 seconds of break. It must exhaust a normal human eventually to do that.

 

And Form & Function Vol. 2 shows this I think—there are a few “Photek throwing a bone to more current dnb sounds” tracks like Deadly Technology, there are a few “what if Photek did some production for a pop song?” tracks, and there are a few “hey remember classic Photek? Here’s a remix!” tracks. All three of those aspects being brought in as sort of stand-in replacements for the previous primary “aspergers-S5000-mania” his classic music.

 

So it’s Photek casting about for another thing that his music can be “about”, with mixed success. The difference I think is that Tom Jenkinson has got insane chops and musical training/knowledge to fall back on when he gets tired of pressing keys for 18 hours straight. Photek might be able to find something there, but another dimension to his style is not right there at his fingertips, he’s kind of casting around for one.

[peace 7]

Ascdi - Word, mang.

 

 

 

aaaaaand so this thread..... I was hoping for some sort of insight into the "why douchebags" aspect of my question. From the most direct angle, MDM Chaos answered the question.

 

But is it really like... Maybe we all used to be douchebags at one point, also liking shit music? Or why and how has rave ideology of drugs and partying gone so mainstream? Or how has that ideology been separated from sonic aesthetics? Or, is it healthy that Disneyland has raver day? I mean... what the fuck is going on... Is it some controlled conspiracy to weaken future generations? Has the underground actually "won" and become overground, to the point of causing mental retardation? I suppose that's all connected to EDM also, but the concepts are similar, if not the same. So I left it really open, because I was interested in potentially reading some insightful thoughts on the whole matter.

 

...But the collective answer to my question seems to be:

Forget about the douchebags and what they like-- good music will always be around.

 

So you all came up with the best answer ever. Kudoz WATMM

[Salvatorin]

 

re: Photek. Fuck yeah. The things I would do to see a re-release of the Truper singles (digital vinlys ov course) are non-mentionable on watmm

 

have you heard any of Scorn/Mick Harris' drum and bass shit? think you would dig it

 

Recommendations pls! didn't know he went that route (tbf I dunno much beyond gyral)

 

he has a later period drum&bass record he made thats really fucking solid.

 

this album is pure gold as far as im concerned

its under his rarely used moniker Quoit

from 2001:

this one is nice (one of my faves, a bit more jungly than the other Quoit stuff)

 

here is one from 1996 that still stands up very nicely

 

i wouldn't say it hits the same unique zone that his Scorn stuff does in terms of being instrumental hiphop stuff but its still really interesting and not totally typical drum and bass from the time

 

 

excellent fucking stuff

[Npoess]

Sorry for spam inking, but if this makes me a douchebag, I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Amen Warrior]

re: Photek. Fuck yeah. The things I would do to see a re-release of the Truper singles (digital vinlys ov course) are non-mentionable on watmm

 

have you heard any of Scorn/Mick Harris' drum and bass shit? think you would dig it

Recommendations pls! didn't know he went that route (tbf I dunno much beyond gyral)

Mate basement records has just done a rerelease of the truper singles, I linked it earlier in thread. Cds still available, the vinyls have gone. I don't know what digital vinyls are, I keep seeing this on watmm. What are they?!?

[triachus]

Douche 'N Bagss

[autopilot]

I don't know what digital vinyls are, I keep seeing this on watmm. What are they?!?

 

 

It's an mp3 with some skips in it and dirt sprinkled on it. Think Burial's work Kindred & later.

[Npoess]

Douche 'N Bagss

[Amen Warrior]

 

I don't know what digital vinyls are, I keep seeing this on watmm. What are they?!?

 

It's an mp3 with some skips in it and dirt sprinkled on it. Think Burial's work Kindred & later.

Ah, a Watmm Joke then ;) thanks for clarifying.

[triachus]

[KovalainenFanBoy]

Sorry for spam inking

 

[Amen Warrior]

Lol

[lala]

haha monsta