Removing Your Ego

[QQQ]

Okay so this is a topic that has been playing on my mind for years regarding music and art.

 

I find putting my thoughts in to words difficult so bare with me if this makes no sense.

 

What I mean is how do you remove the barrier of 'ego'/'self' from what you create. I often find myself pushed away from what I want to do creatively because of it. If I write some lyrics or a story, paint a picture or if I attempted to sing over a song I'd made I would struggle to distance my ego from it and it makes me anxious (for lack of a better word) to put myself 'out there'. Is this why watmmers make bleep bloop music? Is it easier to create something more abstract and less personal than, say, a singer-songwriter?

 

I have a strange and skewed sense of 'myself' (depersonalization) so it may be an issue more personal to me but I imagine it's not a particularly unusual phenomenon.

 

Thought it may be an interesting subject to discuss but I am also looking for ideas on how to break this self-depreciating ego that blocks my creative side quite often.

 

In b4 'do mushrooms'.

[Entorwellian]

Don't give any fucks.

 

If I really wanted to make a country song I would do it.

[MadameChaos]

www.wisdomofchopra.com/

[xox]

Okay so this is a topic that has been playing on my mind for years regarding music and art.

 

I find putting my thoughts in to words difficult so bare with me if this makes no sense.

 

What I mean is how do you remove the barrier of 'ego'/'self' from what you create. I often find myself pushed away from what I want to do creatively because of it. If I write some lyrics or a story, paint a picture or if I attempted to sing over a song I'd made I would struggle to distance my ego from it and it makes me anxious (for lack of a better word) to put myself 'out there'. Is this why watmmers make bleep bloop music? Is it easier to create something more abstract and less personal than, say, a singer-songwriter?

 

I have a strange and skewed sense of 'myself' (depersonalization) so it may be an issue more personal to me but I imagine it's not a particularly unusual phenomenon.

 

Thought it may be an interesting subject to discuss but I am also looking for ideas on how to break this self-depreciating ego that blocks my creative side quite often.

 

In b4 'do mushrooms'.

 

 

i don't understand. do you want to be more on the subjective or the objective side of things?

[Guest skibby]

Okay so this is a topic that has been playing on my mind for years regarding music and art.

 

I find putting my thoughts in to words difficult so bare with me if this makes no sense.

 

What I mean is how do you remove the barrier of 'ego'/'self' from what you create. I often find myself pushed away from what I want to do creatively because of it. If I write some lyrics or a story, paint a picture or if I attempted to sing over a song I'd made I would struggle to distance my ego from it and it makes me anxious (for lack of a better word) to put myself 'out there'. Is this why watmmers make bleep bloop music? Is it easier to create something more abstract and less personal than, say, a singer-songwriter?

 

I have a strange and skewed sense of 'myself' (depersonalization) so it may be an issue more personal to me but I imagine it's not a particularly unusual phenomenon.

 

Thought it may be an interesting subject to discuss but I am also looking for ideas on how to break this self-depreciating ego that blocks my creative side quite often.

 

In b4 'do mushrooms'.

 

sometimes i get tired of lyrics because the music doesnt need to sound good to be a good poem, and poetry and music sort of blur together, usually the poetry is using the sound as a vehicle to deliver its payload, as well as to appeal to people who recently learned what words do (kids), often for purposes of aggrandizing power, profits, which are also a fun game but not exactly music, but more of an art.

 

my ego causes me to fall off my bicycle, and be clumsy, so i do understand the need to stop thinking about how i am perceived, it causes infinite loops or memory leaks and stuff.

[QQQ]

Maybe I have just drank too much coffee and this will make no sense to anybody else.

 

What I was trying to ask is:

 

how do you create distance from your art (in most cases here, music) so that you can view it more as a 3rd party without your ego getting in the way and hindering creativity.

 

Further potential discussion:

 

Is it necessary to distance yourself from your art and to try and look at it ? Maybe not. Is it better to let others do that for you and not to think too much about what it is you are creating?

[awepittance]

generative/random based music making sounds like a good solution. I've actually released songs I had zero hand in making before, and while they aren't some of my best tracks in a technical sense, they are still some of the easiest for me to listen to because they make me feel like im listening to someone else's music (and in a sense they are since the computer made them for me)

[poblequadrat]

it's like industrial design, if you design a chair according to your actual body measurements it'll be uncomfortable for 99% of people

 

so try to work within the field of the generic, be it a tradition or a social niche

[QQQ]

generative/random based music making sounds like a good solution. I've actually released songs I had zero hand in making before, and while they aren't some of my best tracks in a technical sense, they are still some of the easiest for me to listen to because they make me feel like im listening to someone else's music (and in a sense they are since the computer made them for me)

What I'm talking about wouldn't really apply then, because it is not 'your' art (though the subject is debatable and often is) and you aren't as involved in making it. How can you be be self-critical of something you didn't make?

 

Though it sounds like a fun activity to break away from having total creative input/control every once in a while.

[xox]

let the spirit of syd mead speak for us

 

https://youtu.be/g-dHXN8Po7U?t=260

[b born droid]

Maybe I have just drank too much coffee and this will make no sense to anybody else.

 

What I was trying to ask is:

 

how do you create distance from your art (in most cases here, music) so that you can view it more as a 3rd party without your ego getting in the way and hindering creativity.

 

Further potential discussion:

 

Is it necessary to distance yourself from your art and to try and look at it ? Maybe not. Is it better to let others do that for you and not to think too much about what it is you are creating?

Don't listen to it for a while. That always gives a bit of perspective. I like to DJ with mine because having them surrounded by other music, in a surrounding where no-one knows it's mine somehow makes me view it more as an actual track.

 

But ultimately if you like it then fuck it. I've just written two tracks, sent them off to loads of labels, either heard fuck all or "we don't want this". I don't give a fuck, I played it the other night at a bar and I loved it. I don't really get this 'ego' thing, you either like something or you don't.

[QQQ]

it's like industrial design, if you design a chair according to your actual body measurements it'll be uncomfortable for 99% of people

 

so try to work within the field of the generic, be it a tradition or a social niche

This is actually sorta the opposite of what I'm talking about. Going by your analogy I'd flip it. 99% of people could find your chair mad comfy because you have made it well, used the right materials etc, but because you personally made it you it could be uncomfortable and strange to sit in. If you could move your ego aside a little and see it from the 99%s perspective and see how it really is rather than your skewed perspective as the person who created it, you would also find it comfier.

 

Ya dig me? Maybe not.

 

I feel like I'm channeling my inner delet with these rambly posts ;]

[Psychotronic]

For what purpose do you want that distance?

[QQQ]

For what purpose do you want that distance?

To see your art more objectively.

[KovalainenFanBoy]

Don't listen to it for a while. That always gives a bit of perspective.

 

Yeah - I read a psychology article ages ago, it was about how we perceive our past and future selves as actual different people. So it makes sense that you're not so attached to your music after a while

 

Abandoning your tracks for a couple years might not be the most practical solution though

[b born droid]

 

it's like industrial design, if you design a chair according to your actual body measurements it'll be uncomfortable for 99% of people

 

so try to work within the field of the generic, be it a tradition or a social niche

This is actually sorta the opposite of what I'm talking about. Going by your analogy I'd flip it. 99% of people could find your chair mad comfy because you have made it well, used the right materials etc, but because you personally made it you it could be uncomfortable and strange to sit in. If you could move your ego aside a little and see it from the 99%s perspective and see how it really is rather than your skewed perspective as the person who created it, you would also find it comfier.

 

Ya dig me? Maybe not.

 

I feel like I'm channeling my inner delet with these rambly posts ;]

 

Well then that sounds like you want to be able to write music that everyone else likes, whilst at the same time removing any ability to criticise or dislike it yourself. Which unless you're a songwriter, doesn't seem like something worth doing.

 

 

Don't listen to it for a while. That always gives a bit of perspective.

 

Yeah - I read a psychology article ages ago, it was about how we perceive our past and future selves as actual different people. So it makes sense that you're not so attached to your music after a while

 

Abandoning your tracks for a couple years might not be the most practical solution though

 

Even just a couple of weeks work. Especially once I've said, "this is done, finished". Once I've mentally made that cut off in my head, combined with a few weeks of not listening to it, working on new ideas etc, I find myself able to perceive it differently than when I'm working on it.

[weakmassive]

Yep I'd say sit on your tracks for a bit. My favorite photographer, Garry Winogrand would take photos and not even look at them at all until years later. Then he could seperate any emotions or thoughts he had at the time he took the pictures and look at them somewhat objectively.

 

I think a common issue with people who do this stuff is they think because they spent a lot of time and energy on something that automatically makes it good, which isn't the case.

[Ragnar]

generative is sorta a good idea as far as distance yourself from the song as a sequence of notes. Or as much sounds incidentally forming a musical sequence as possible. Like res on a filter, short delays hitting certain tones, etc.

[Haste]

I'm trying to work faster and not listen to stuff over and over. So hopefully when you do listen back, you might not even remember what you did.

[weakmassive]

generative is sorta a good idea as far as distance yourself from the song as a sequence of notes. Or as much sounds incidentally forming a musical sequence as possible. Like res on a filter, short delays hitting certain tones, etc.

In one of the Ed DMX podcasts, he talks about how he uses the step-time sequencer on the SH-101 sometimes to avoid any old habits he has while playing the keyboard live. Something like that.

[Psychotronic]

To see your art more objectively.

IMHO:

 

Seeing art, other or your own, objectively is not possible at all. That would mean to stop beeing human.

 

You can try. For example: Paint a picture, then try to emulate beeing a sofa that stands infront of that picture. Do that as performance on an art exibition.

[QQQ]

Think about your voice. Obviously, to you, you perceive it differently from everyone else. When you hear your voice back on film or recorded you sound strange and alien and although this is because of our physical bodys and the way things reverberate around it rather than psychological (if I remember rightly, I don't know shit about the human body).

 

Isn't it the same for art? It's an extension of yourself and you will not perceive it the way others will. Often this is because you are more critical of it than others, but there are other ways you are attached to it which are more abstract.

 

I am interested in finding a degree of separation to channel (like Syd Mead talks about in the vid xox linked), being the '3rd person'.

 

E.G. if you are being very critical about a part of a track you've made. Sometimes there will be something genuinely wrong with it, but often it could just be your perception of it because it came from you. Maybe what you're obsessing over and criticising is actually the most funky bassline anybody has came up with in the past 10 years, and if you could separate your ego from it you could see it better.

 

I think the best advise given is to give physical distance and time and to return with a new perspective later on. The longer you can wait, the better by the sounds of it. Maybe that is the only way.

 

Also @ b born droid - I don't think you understand exactly. I'm using extreme examples because its easier to illustrate points that way - I don't care if everybody were to like my music and I'm not talking about others liking it at all actually. There isn't a big gap between self-criticism and self-depreciation, maybe even self-destruction. It could be useful to look at your art with a more objective view to try and work out which you are being. Are you being critical because there is actually something that's needs criticism, or are you being self-depreciating because of your ego and nothing else?

 

I apologise for the rambly nature of my previous posts. I definitely had too much coffee yesterday. I forget how lethal cheap coffee granules can be when be when consumed in large quantities (on my brain and on my ass).

[MadameChaos]

Maybe I have just drank too much coffee and this will make no sense to anybody else.

 

What I was trying to ask is:

 

how do you create distance from your art (in most cases here, music) so that you can view it more as a 3rd party without your ego getting in the way and hindering creativity.

 

Further potential discussion:

 

Is it necessary to distance yourself from your art and to try and look at it ? Maybe not. Is it better to let others do that for you and not to think too much about what it is you are creating?

 

you can't distance yourself from your art an more than you could perceive reality from a point outside your own consciousness.

 

your perception of reality IS your reality. your art IS yourself (if you are very lucky, your very essence).

[QQQ]

you can't distance yourself from your art an more than you could perceive reality from a point outside your own consciousness.

 

your perception of reality IS your reality. your art IS yourself (if you are very lucky, your very essence).

Maybe it's the curse of the artist. Being the only person not being able to view it as others do.

 

Edit: though who's reality is the real reality? Who is viewing it 'the right way'?

 

 

 

[MadameChaos]

“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”

― Friedrich Nietzsche