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A Very Heavy Agenda Part 1: A Catalyzing Event [documentary]


awepittance

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Guest Atom Dowry Firth

Not sure if I commented in the American Anthrax thread or not but it was really well put together, will watch this when it's out too

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anyone motivated enough to act upon their personal political beliefs in creative formats deserves a bit more respect than some of the bs typed here

 

i'lll try n finish the whole doc 2m evening, so far so good even if dont agree with everything

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i didn't post the full thing yet, it comes out on 10.15.15 . I'm sending out a promotional preview to people interested in covering it/writing about it before the release date.

if you mean American Anthrax, that one came out last year (and is online for free)

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Trailer comes off as a product of a conspiracy theorist who watched way too much YT simply edited together bits trying to convince others of a conspiracy whilst not trying to come across as a conspiracy theorist.

 

I really don't mean this as an attacking critique, it's just my honest impression. I would be interested in seeing some compiled facts about the New American Whatevers, but the trailer (and I'd assume the film) doesn't come across as anything vaguely based on facts, but based on its own agenda: demonizing these people. And they may be demons. But I'm not personally into watching stuff that is so seemingly interested in swaying the viewer, rather than presenting the facts.

 

sent using magic space waves

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Trailer comes off as a product of a conspiracy theorist who watched way too much YT simply edited together bits trying to convince others of a conspiracy whilst not trying to come across as a conspiracy theorist.

 

I really don't mean this as an attacking critique, it's just my honest impression. I would be interested in seeing some compiled facts about the New American Whatevers, but the trailer (and I'd assume the film) doesn't come across as anything vaguely based on facts, but based on its own agenda: demonizing these people. And they may be demons.

that's interesting that was your takeaway from the trailer, as almost every scene in the actual movie is their own words barely edited (and if they are edited, never out of context). Maybe i'm misunderstanding but the statements these people have made on television and in newspapers are 'facts' in the sense that yeah they said these things in public and weren't ashamed to say them openly. Part of why i made this is because none of these people have hidden their agenda, so its actually not a conspiracy by the traditional definition (being done in secret).

 

What 'conspiracy' specifically do you think i'm trying to push in my movie besides the well known not hidden/undisputed conspiracy that there were people determined to get us into war with Iraq based on false pretenses? Maybe im living on a different planet, but I assumed that most people on this forum probably already had a decent understanding that the Iraq war and most of the bush administration was extremely abhorrent (and not just from a political ideology perspective, but because they blatantly lied to us and fear mongered us for years). Seems like you might be lazily throwing around the term conspiracy theorist as a pejorative without an understanding of the subject material.

 

did you find Fahrenheit 9/11 to be someone trying to push a 'conspiracy theory'? Did you support the US invasion of Iraq? if so i could *sorta* see where you're coming from, but it would still be weird.

 

 

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If these guys are so up front about everything, and everyone apparently already knows that the US entered into the second Iraq war on false pretences, then what is the point exactly? These guys have a point of view, they express it, various politicians buy into it to varying degrees, some bad shit happens, other bad shit doesn't happen, you add some ominous sounding music in the background, add some edits to extenuate some creepiness... if there's no conspiracy, what's the point?

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if there's no conspiracy, what's the point?

the point is to take away the 'voodoo doll' approach to George W Bush and instead show the most influential minds (many of whom aren't famous or fame-seeking) behind the American reality we are living in today. I personally think it's important since focusing all our ire and criticism about US foreign policy on who holds the office of the presidency is ultimately a distraction (and it's something i've been guilty of with my approach to the Obama administration, and the movie eventually takes us to the present at the end of his presidency)

 

 

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Trailer comes off as a product of a conspiracy theorist who watched way too much YT simply edited together bits trying to convince others of a conspiracy whilst not trying to come across as a conspiracy theorist.

 

I really don't mean this as an attacking critique, it's just my honest impression. I would be interested in seeing some compiled facts about the New American Whatevers, but the trailer (and I'd assume the film) doesn't come across as anything vaguely based on facts, but based on its own agenda: demonizing these people. And they may be demons.

that's interesting that was your takeaway from the trailer, as almost every scene in the actual movie is their own words barely edited (and if they are edited, never out of context). Maybe i'm misunderstanding but the statements these people have made on television and in newspapers are 'facts' in the sense that yeah they said these things in public and weren't ashamed to say them openly. Part of why i made this is because none of these people have hidden their agenda, so its actually not a conspiracy by the traditional definition (being done in secret).

 

What 'conspiracy' specifically do you think i'm trying to push in my movie besides the well known not hidden/undisputed conspiracy that there were people determined to get us into war with Iraq based on false pretenses? Maybe im living on a different planet, but I assumed that most people on this forum probably already had a decent understanding that the Iraq war and most of the bush administration was extremely abhorrent (and not just from a political ideology perspective, but because they blatantly lied to us and fear mongered us for years). Seems like you might be lazily throwing around the term conspiracy theorist as a pejorative without an understanding of the subject material.

 

did you find Fahrenheit 9/11 to be someone trying to push a 'conspiracy theory'? Did you support the US invasion of Iraq? if so i could *sorta* see where you're coming from, but it would still be weird.

I didn't see Fahrenheit 9/11. I didn't support the US invading Iraq, ever, for even a heartbeat. It was a terrible fucking load of bullshit from the get-go that resulted in thousands upon thousands of dead bodies, on both sides.

 

The way the trailer is presented is that it's going to impart some hidden truth to the viewer; that these people are talking about this group they're a part of that we for some reason need to know about but don't. See caze's statement which sums up that aspect of my disinterest in the trailer:

 

If these guys are so up front about everything, and everyone apparently already knows that the US entered into the second Iraq war on false pretences, then what is the point exactly? These guys have a point of view, they express it, various politicians buy into it to varying degrees, some bad shit happens, other bad shit doesn't happen, you add some ominous sounding music in the background, add some edits to extenuate some creepiness... if there's no conspiracy, what's the point?

 

As to what conspiracy...I have no clue really. It seems to be some sort of neoconservative (NEOCON NEOCON NEOCON NEOCON) group with an Illuminati-style hunger for power, based solely on the impression that the trailer gave me.

 

Again, that's just my impression; from what you say the film is actually more factually based, and if so, great. The trailer doesn't give me that impression at all though; to me, it falls squarely in the internet-fueled conspiracy 'underground' of the past couple decades. If I'd randomly seen that trailer online I'd have skipped it after the first 30 seconds, just because that's what it immediately screams to me; at no point during it's 4+ minutes did I think to myself, "hm, this could be an evenly-weighted fact-based exploration of something I need to know." But I have a knee-jerk reaction against most stuff that falls into conspiracy territory. I'm not the target audience.

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If these guys are so up front about everything, and everyone apparently already knows that the US entered into the second Iraq war on false pretences, then what is the point exactly? These guys have a point of view, they express it, various politicians buy into it to varying degrees, some bad shit happens, other bad shit doesn't happen, you add some ominous sounding music in the background, add some edits to extenuate some creepiness... if there's no conspiracy, what's the point?

note to self: there is no point making a political film unless it's about a conspiracy.

 

If these guys are so up front about everything, and everyone apparently already knows that the US entered into the second Iraq war on false pretences, then what is the point exactly? These guys have a point of view, they express it, various politicians buy into it to varying degrees, some bad shit happens, other bad shit doesn't happen, you add some ominous sounding music in the background, add some edits to extenuate some creepiness... if there's no conspiracy, what's the point?

note to self: there is no point making a political film unless it's about a conspiracy.

Also flol @ eugene. your inability to see how JE brings out the petulant troll in you is so goddamn old by now.

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at no point during it's 4+ minutes did I think to myself, "hm, this could be an evenly-weighted fact-based exploration of something I need to know." But I have a knee-jerk reaction against most stuff that falls into conspiracy territory. I'm not the target audience.

 

the fact that you even checked it out is good enough for me, i'd be curious what format the same subject material could be presented in where you wouldn't have the same knee-jerk reaction. Like if this was a proper documentary with narration and/or original interview footage weaving the narrative would it be more digestible?

 

also why haven't you seen fahrenheit 9/11? Not saying it's a great documentary but it's a very impactful film that sort of encapsulates the heightened fear era of 2001-2004 (which many republicans wrote off as 'conspiracy theory' at the time)

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I seem to remember Fahrenheit 9/11 being full of lies (It's been a while so my memory is hazy, but the one I remember was about that gas pipeline). Conspiracy theories are generally full of various forms of untruths, so it's hardly a stretch to write it off as conspiracy theory (though personally I think it failed even as that, a conspiracy theory usually has a more coherent narrative about it).

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note to self: there is no point making a political film unless it's about a conspiracy.

 

I was being genuinely curious. The tone of the trailer seems to hint at some deeper sinister thing, yet he's saying it's just a plain illustration of some facts, apparently with little (no?) commentary. Most political films make some effort at contextualisation or commentary of some form. You can achieve some form of narrative without explicitly adding anything external, but I dunno how well a bunch of talking heads from US news shows will be able to achieve that.

 

JE's response to my post though makes me wonder who the audience of this film is supposed to be. He talks about people fixating on Bush and Obama, so maybe it's aimed at the more lunatic fringe of his own community, everyone else who was keeping up with events and is not an idiot should know exactly who and what actual neoconservatives were about back then, so this film won't really add anything new.

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so this film won't really add anything new.

 

glad you already know that before seeing it, please continue bumping the thread tho each time you want to repeat the same point with different wording, its nice promotion

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so this film won't really add anything new.

 

glad you already know that before seeing it, please continue bumping the thread tho each time you want to repeat the same point with different wording, its nice promotion

 

 

I'm just going off what I've seen in the trailer and what you've said in here, but happy to oblige!

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at no point during it's 4+ minutes did I think to myself, "hm, this could be an evenly-weighted fact-based exploration of something I need to know." But I have a knee-jerk reaction against most stuff that falls into conspiracy territory. I'm not the target audience.

 

the fact that you even checked it out is good enough for me, i'd be curious what format the same subject material could be presented in where you wouldn't have the same knee-jerk reaction. Like if this was a proper documentary with narration and/or original interview footage weaving the narrative would it be more digestible?

 

also why haven't you seen fahrenheit 9/11? Not saying it's a great documentary but it's a very impactful film that sort of encapsulates the heightened fear era of 2001-2004 (which many republicans wrote off as 'conspiracy theory' at the time)

 

I heard good and bad about F9/11, and ultimately I didn't seek it out because I figured I might be wasting my time. I'd heard a lot of the rhetoric of that time period already elsewhere, and it didn't seem 'necessary.' Though watching it now quite some years after its release may be worthwhile.

 

And yeah, basically if it was more of a 'proper' doc, perhaps I'd be interested.

 

This line of conversation reminds me of that Rumsfeld documentary/interview from a couple years ago that at first seemed interesting, until I read that it was using silly tactics (creepy music, spooky lighting, etc.) to essentially frame him as a villain; Rumsfeld is a villain in many ways, and just hearing his case in his own words, along with the facts from elsewhere, would be enough to make an audience see him as a villain. (Keep in mind I've not seen this documentary either, just going on what I heard, so I could be totally wrong) When a filmmaker doctors up the presentation of something like that, it comes across as immature, cheesy, self-indulgent, and, worst of all, dishonest. But my reasons for thinking that get into documentary vs. art and the very gray areas surrounding those points. Ultimately, I just tend to avoid much that seems too gray.

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Guest cult fiction

 

JE's response to my post though makes me wonder who the audience of this film is supposed to be. He talks about people fixating on Bush and Obama, so maybe it's aimed at the more lunatic fringe of his own community, everyone else who was keeping up with events and is not an idiot should know exactly who and what actual neoconservatives were about back then, so this film won't really add anything new.

 

 

Yes, many people know the Iraq war was a huge fraud and a boondoggle perpetrated by money hungry neocons in bed with the defense contracting industry... however, they probably don't know about the Kagans, REF, etc. important players that are still at work every single day

 

I've talked to plenty of people who think they understand what Iraq was about and somehow think that's just OVER and all we're dealing with now are the leftover issues, which is absolutely ludicrous and something I'd hope parts 2 & 3 will drive home, at least judging from their abstracts

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This line of conversation reminds me of that Rumsfeld documentary/interview from a couple years ago that at first seemed interesting, until I read that it was using silly tactics (creepy music, spooky lighting, etc.) to essentially frame him as a villain; Rumsfeld is a villain in many ways, and just hearing his case in his own words, along with the facts from elsewhere, would be enough to make an audience see him as a villain. (Keep in mind I've not seen this documentary either, just going on what I heard, so I could be totally wrong) When a filmmaker doctors up the presentation of something like that, it comes across as immature, cheesy, self-indulgent, and, worst of all, dishonest. But my reasons for thinking that get into documentary vs. art and the very gray areas surrounding those points. Ultimately, I just tend to avoid much that seems too gray.

 

where did you read that? I mean coming from a huge Errol Morris fan (me) i can say pretty confidently that he didn't treat Rumsfeld worse or more 'monster like' than most of the primary subjects in his movies (especially his recent ones). Maybe you're just more sensitive to that kind of stuff than other people? I mean it seems really odd to me to write off a movie especially a high quality documentary made by the likes of Morris because you read it painted an unfair portrayal of Rumsfeld. What the movie did for me is humanize him, that was my takeaway from it. Morris gave him a lot of opportunities actually to display human qualities which Rumsfeld often did not take, instead chose to act like he was made of stone (again his doing, not the filmmaker). Artistic license has to be taken to varying degrees in the documentary film form,and there are definitely plenty of documentaries which stay very squarely on the documenting aspect, fly on the wall type of approach, maybe these are the kinds you're able to enjoy? maybe you can list a few documentaries especially ones that deal with political subject matter that don't rub you the wrong way or don't have too many of this 'grey' you're talking about to help me better understand.

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I am all for this thread, the documentary and all the information therein. it interests me and is a huge project undertaken by je and i think it is incredibly valid of him to post about it in here. i also love seeing eugene miss a step because he doesn't like something.

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I am all for this thread, the documentary and all the information therein. it interests me and is a huge project undertaken by je and i think it is incredibly valid of him to post about it in here.

 

Yep, will check this one for sure.

 

appreciate the support, sincerely

 

DVD production is on schedule, here is the final mockup

 

CQ8S3HAUcAAK5m3.jpg

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I am all for this thread, the documentary and all the information therein. it interests me and is a huge project undertaken by je and i think it is incredibly valid of him to post about it in here.

 

Yep, will check this one for sure.

appreciate the support, sincerely

 

DVD production is on schedule, here is the final mockup

 

CQ8S3HAUcAAK5m3.jpg

That packaging is beautiful

 

(PS. A collector's edition with white powder in it would indeed be amazing)

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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