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Proof of Animal Consciousness Thread


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Yes, but what should we tell them to do?

 

You say "what their training data suggests they SHOULD do"...you need to have an aim/goal/values to have a "should"...and they (aims etc) won't just magically appear...they need to be put there by humans

 

So again, we're back to WHAT goals/aims/values should be picked, and we're back to the need for philosophy and ethics and all that

Maximum number of lives saved. What other option is there. Maybe we can be a bit objective-erring-on-the-side-of-becoming-immoral and apply weights to individual lives as well. Save the President over two murderers.

 

Realistically though if every car is self driving and we outlaw non-self-driving cars we can make it so no accidents will ever happen. Every car can scan the area they're in constantly, above and below, in front and behind on each side, and share that information over the internet with every other car in the world. And literally they can avoid all accidents. Computers solve problems like this all the time with concurrent scheduling algorithms, it's stupidly easy for them

I don't know if you're making a subtle joke or what, but the Utilitarianism vs Deontology debate has been around for a long-ass time...

 

there are some serious problems with "save the most amount of lives" as a moral heuristic...if that were the Highest Good, then we would be morally obliged to (e.g.) kill ONE person and give his organs to FIVE people on a transplant waiting list

 

In short, should we ACTUALLY be pushing one person off a bridge to save the five people down below? Or do we as individuals have a right not to be pushed off bridges for the greater good, or have our organs stolen to save the many?

interesting question.for the person who would kill someone to save 5 person, that is bad: why wouldnt the killer would have not sacrificed himself? invariably for a person to choose who would have to die for the sake of saving ithers, this is bad.

if someone wants to kill himself to save many more, there will be both good and bad results. id suspect its more good then bad. if for example your in a situation where you prefer to sacrifice yourself to save another or many lives, for sure this is good but i wouldnt be so sure to say that one would be morally obliged to sacrifice himself for others.

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Birds do have a brain cortex—and think  

That animals have a consciousness would maybe have been news in 1920 or so but who the fuck needs more evidence for that in the year of 2020 (or 2015 when the thread was started)? It's apparent enough

sorry if i led you guys to believe this is the proof of self-driving car consciousness thread, but it's not

WATMM do not have consciousness so cannot understand your post

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living things that live in harmony get no respect from us, they figured out utopia for their species, but of course they can't understand the Beatles I mean its not like they have receptors that allows them to feel the same thing we feel when we listen to the Beatles 

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and I don't mean animals, the animal world is a fast-paced chaotic anarchy that creates psychotic demons, I mean plants and fungi, the most advance living conscious beings on the planet

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On 1/13/2017 at 1:27 PM, YO303 said:

and I don't mean animals, the animal world is a fast-paced chaotic anarchy that creates psychotic demons, I mean plants and fungi, the most advance living conscious beings on the planet

Terrence McKenna will rot your brain 

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Birds do have a brain cortex—and think

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The term “birdbrain” used to be derogatory. But humans, with their limited brain size, should have known better than to use the meager proportions of the bird brain as an insult. Part of the cause for derision is that the mantle, or pallium, of the bird brain lacks the obvious layering that earned the mammalian pallium its “cerebral cortex” label. However, birds, and particularly corvids (such as ravens), are as cognitively capable as monkeys (1) and even great apes (2). Because their neurons are smaller, the pallium of songbirds and parrots actually comprises many more information-processing neuronal units than the equivalent-sized mammalian cortices (3). On page 1626 of this issue, Nieder et al. (4) show that the bird pallium has neurons that represent what it perceives—a hallmark of consciousness. And on page 1585 of this issue, Stacho et al. (5) establish that the bird pallium has similar organization to the mammalian cortex.

[...]

Nieder et al., who established previously that corvids, like macaques, have sensory neurons that represent numeric quantities (12), now move on to this associative part of the bird pallium. They find that, like the macaque prefrontal cortex, the associative pallium of crows is rich in neurons that represent what the animals next report to have seen—whether or not that is what they were shown.

This representation develops over the time lapse of 1 to 2 s between the stimulus disappearing and the animal reporting what it perceived by pecking at a screen either for “yes, there was a stimulus” or for “no, there was no stimulus,” depending on a variable contingency rule. The early activity of these neurons still reflects the physical stimulus presented to the animal, which indicates that they receive secondhand sensory signals. However, as time elapses and (presumably) recurrent, associative cortical circuits progressively shape neuronal activity, the later component of the responses of the same neurons predicts instead what the animal then reports: Did it see a stimulus that indeed was there, or did it think the stimulus was there enough to report it—even if it was not? Future studies will certainly delve into more complex mental content than simply “Was it there or not?”, but concluding that birds do have what it takes to display consciousness—patterns of neuronal activity that represent mental content that drives behavior—now appears inevitable.

 

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What does this mean for the future of chicken nuggets? 

 

Soy nuggets I tell you. If Soy develops a consciousness it can fuck right off. It a bean.🐔

 

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That animals have a consciousness would maybe have been news in 1920 or so but who the fuck needs more evidence for that in the year of 2020 (or 2015 when the thread was started)? It's apparent enough.

 

Edited by dingformung
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On 08/05/2020 at 4:06 AM, very honest said:

monkey on a motorcycle stealing a baby.

 

i think this monkey has an understanding that when it rides on a little motorbike it will be treated as a novelty and not a serious threat - what we're seeing is a stealth operation in which he can ride into the scene without interruption, then make the crucial switch to child attack mode.

i don't think this monkey has experienced human training/captivity - he's a "street rat" and he has clearly discovered the noticeable change in humans' attitude when you ride around on a little bike. monkeys know when they're not being taken seriously, we don't even expect them to notice but it's really obvious.

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On 11/18/2020 at 3:59 AM, dingformung said:

That animals have a consciousness would maybe have been news in 1920 or so but who the fuck needs more evidence for that in the year of 2020 (or 2015 when the thread was started)? It's apparent enough.

 

sure, that's a solid point. also, one could argue that cultural inertia has grandfathered in practices that are at odds with conscience and this truth that most acknowledge, such as factory farming. i see this as a pronounced example of widespread cognitive dissonance. so, a good stash of evidence can only help.

further, the topic of consciousness is an untamed frontier. people haven't even settled on shared definitions for the primary terms. consciousness, sentience, awareness, feeling, intelligence, self-awareness, thought... it's hard to even talk to someone about consciousness without immediately getting bogged down in definitions.

and livestock farming is a primary source of methane, a greenhouse gas that is an order of magnitude more potent than CO2. such is the laziness of man - cannot stop eating innocent creatures, out of habit, even to save the stability of the human habitat.

12 hours ago, cyanobacteria said:

dog practices threatening facial expressions in the mirror

https://v.redd.it/5660ohrt6zd61/DASH_480.mp4?source=fallback

 

this is amazing

 

more evidence. a music maker

 

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