New producers forum

[Guest Chesney]

Well, what you're talking about is more than just plain taking music seriously. I don't want to call you a close minded music snob because I believe you're right to an extent, it would be nice to hear more electronic music with a bit more theory behind it.

But, knowing lots of theory does not mean you're taking music any more serious than someone who just feels their way through.

It's not devolving, it's just took a turn. ;)

[psn]

I appreciate the elitism.

[Guest Chesney]

I do too. There are some rad people on here who seem well up their own arse on the face of it and most can even back it up with their music.

[LimpyLoo]

Well, what you're talking about is more than just plain taking music seriously. I don't want to call you a close minded music snob because I believe you're right to an extent, it would be nice to hear more electronic music with a bit more theory behind it.

But, knowing lots of theory does not mean you're taking music any more serious than someone who just feels their way through.

 

It's not devolving, it's just took a turn. ;)

I like how you called me a "close-minded snob" without calling me a "close-minded snob"

But I hope you see the irony of calling me "close-minded" on this topic

 

This attitude towards theory as being this annoying "eat your vegetables" sorta thing is really a bummer

Theory seems to be a good thing everywhere (painting, photography, cinematography, architecture, writing, etc) EXCEPT music

I hope you realize how suspicious that is

 

Anyway, this is why I don't talk shop much anymore

I get facepalms and accusations of snobbery

Meanwhile there's an active thread about "how to make drums swing"

Where 5 minutes of Theory 101 would solve the mystery

[Guest Chesney]

No dude, you're taking this totally wrong.

Did you read my last post? I said people can back up their elitism. Meaning that I just listened to a bit of your music.

If I was to get snobby on you I would politely say that you are totally right but totally wrong at the same time in your view and maybe try not to take everything on a forum as a personal dig.

I actually like to talk shop with people that know more than I do.

[LimpyLoo]

I appreciate the elitism.

Wow, I'm just....SO done talking shop on Watmm

[Psychotronic]

Meanwhile there's an active thread about "how to make drums swing"

Where 5 minutes of Theory 101 would solve the mystery

Why don't you explain the theory to them in the other thread.

 

[Guest Chesney]

Hold on, what are you reading? do you have a special setting that changes everything you see into a criticism?

 

I don't see any diss against you in here. The only thing I responded, not even negatively was that the way you put it made it sound like electronic music is not as good as it could be because the people that make it don't know enough theory.

I partly agree with you that it would be cool to hear a good mix of music theory in this music but all music is serious music if the person making it loves his craft, and loving it does not mean learning.

 

You have some chops, I praise you for that, it's what I feel is lacking in my music but it's not the be all end all.

[psn]

 

I appreciate the elitism.

Wow, I'm just....SO done talking shop on Watmm

 

 

I wasn't being sarcastic.

[Guest Chesney]

Yeah, I found his reaction weird to that psn. I read it that you was sticking up for him, In a good way.

[LimpyLoo]

I'm really just advocating for obsessiveness

I am not trying to put anyone down

I am really just saying "approach music with the same obsessiveness and attention-to-detail that Tom Jenkinson does"

(He didn't end up on Warp by accident or through some IDM lottery)

Yeah, I found his reaction weird to that psn. I read it that you was sticking up for him, In a good way.

Well "elitism" is usually meant as a bad thing

[MisterE]

limpy i don't agree with your premise that 'taking music seriously' should necessarily entail studying what other people have done with music. music can be thought of as a sort of cultural byproduct and some people may be interested in being part of that, and furthering it, but some people don't give a fuck about that. some people just want to learn things on their own, how to manipulate sounds in ways that please them as more of a personal discovery thing and don't care what john bob or sally did 50 years ago. some people might dabble a bit in both approaches. besides, none of this really matters nearly as much as you think it does. like 2 or 3 generations after you're dead nobody alive will remember you or anything you did so why get so bent on this idea that music is some kind of important ongoing project that we need to contribute to?

 

you aren't going to accomplish world peace, or really pretty much anything at all by doing tracks, whether you borrowed from someone else's theories about how they should be done or not. this isn't bill and ted. the planets won't align. you won't unlock some secret cheat code that solves world hunger. nobody gives a fuck. its just something you do to pass the time. best case scenario, someone pays you to do it and you can get paid to do something you enjoy. that doesn't accomplish communication with household pets or any other hippy utopian bullshit.

[chim]

Place looks promising, seems likely at this point to suffer a bit from "advice from people who don't really know what they're talking about"-ism, as well as bland subject matter by thread starters with 1 month FL experience wanting to make a "banger", plus that encouraging soundcloud self-promotion is a bad idea if you want to keep it strictly about the production. I'll keep an eye on it though.

[LimpyLoo]

limpy i don't agree with your premise that 'taking music seriously' should necessarily entail studying what other people have done with music. music can be thought of as a sort of cultural byproduct and some people may be interested in being part of that, and furthering it, but some people don't give a fuck about that. some people just want to learn things on their own, how to manipulate sounds in ways that please them as more of a personal discovery thing and don't care what john bob or sally did 50 years ago. some people might dabble a bit in both approaches. besides, none of this really matters nearly as much as you think it does. like 2 or 3 generations after you're dead nobody alive will remember you or anything you did so why get so bent on this idea that music is some kind of important ongoing project that we need to contribute to?

 

you aren't going to accomplish world peace, or really pretty much anything at all by doing tracks, whether you borrowed from someone else's theories about how they should be done or not. this isn't bill and ted. the planets won't align. you won't unlock some secret cheat code that solves world hunger. nobody gives a fuck. its just something you do to pass the time. best case scenario, someone pays you to do it and you can get paid to do something you enjoy. that doesn't accomplish communication with household pets or any other hippy utopian bullshit.

2 years ago I would've agreed with your second paragraph

But now I see music as medicine, not mere entertainment to pass the time

[Guest Chesney]

Not always my friend, it is also to show personal quality control but as long as you show that you accept other angles.

 

You're all good man, try not to take every comment as a personal insult.

 

I get you about that (Tom J comment) but not everyone needs to take that angle. If everyone learnt all the same theory then nothing would stand out and be special. Simple no academic structures can be beautiful too.

 

Edit: In reply to limy's elitism post

[MisterE]

music can help you get through things i guess, but i think that's more on a personal level, not a societal one. i made the bill and ted comparison because i think people who are into art and music etc place a high importance on those things. because they are things they personally enjoy, they place them among the most important things in general. which i think is egocentric. not everyone cares about that stuff. a great plumber might make the argument that without good plumbing, civilization could've never really took off or sustained itself, so therefore plumbing is the most important piece of infrastructure or the most important advancement. a musician might say music is the most important thing in life. a lot of times these people never seem to realize that they're only speaking for themselves. it's just their opinion. they're really only qualifying what's important to them.

 

so music may be medicinal for you and that's great, but if you meant it in some sense that music is the medicine to heal the soul of society i'd say you're probably self absorbed and delusional.

[delet...]

 

Meanwhile there's an active thread about "how to make drums swing"

Where 5 minutes of Theory 101 would solve the mystery

Why don't you explain the theory to them in the other thread.

 

 

 

heh .... yess, pretty much.

 

Also, where is this shop you guys are going to, it seems to be selling sour grapes and other sorry products. People are using complicated daws and hardware and people say that they don't understand things. The mystery is perhaps more esoteric and some aren't built with built in beat making skills whilst others are through osmosis and being the mostest.

 

I would say that people on the prodeucer forum that the OP is about would be more akin to what was being talked about, as they would just be getting sample packs, dumping the pads and beats into something and then just triggering them in some DAW for babies.

 

/hrmm managed to get around posting that without a direct reply to a particular person. hahah. yae me [[-;

[YangYing]

 

You said music should be taken seriously and I argued that people do take the music seriously but do not want to be seen as promoting hard.
Taking something seriously is not the same as being good at it. You can only make music at the level of knowledge of skill you have.

My premise is that people don't actually take the music seriously. I would argue that about 33% of being a musician is being a musicologist: Dissecting what has come before to see how it works.

Well nobody does that.

For instance, you will never hear an electronic musician use a "Messiaen mode." You will probably never meet one who knows what they are or what they sound like. You will never hear an electronic musician who is good at voice-leading.

What I see is people drawing major triads in a piano roll and then getting bummed that it doesn't sound cool, and then consulting a producers' forum for advice.

 

I studied music theory, many dumb people still make better music than me. Its just a laugh mate, watch what ceephax does for example, he's a master of his craft but he's pissing around all the time. fuck off with being serious about everything is not fuckin worth it. unless u trollin which is kool (and gay)

 

[LimpyLoo]

I feel like we're all talking past each other

-Ceephax knows his shit AND fucks off

-Music is both literally medicine and figuratively medicine...personally and societal-ly

-Delet...as usual, go fuck yourself

[MisterE]

or maybe music is herpes and you got it bad

[Guest Chesney]

haha, damn, I give up on the forum. it's cats n dogs in here.

[chim]

music can help you get through things i guess, but i think that's more on a personal level, not a societal one. i made the bill and ted comparison because i think people who are into art and music etc place a high importance on those things. because they are things they personally enjoy, they place them among the most important things in general. which i think is egocentric. not everyone cares about that stuff. a great plumber might make the argument that without good plumbing, civilization could've never really took off or sustained itself, so therefore plumbing is the most important piece of infrastructure or the most important advancement. a musician might say music is the most important thing in life. a lot of times these people never seem to realize that they're only speaking for themselves. it's just their opinion. they're really only qualifying what's important to them.

 

so music may be medicinal for you and that's great, but if you meant it in some sense that music is the medicine to heal the soul of society i'd say you're probably self absorbed and delusional.

 

Really good post. I agree 100%

[LimpyLoo]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2013/12/17/health-benefits-music/4053401/

 

Music is literally medicine

(and like medicine, it works whether you think it's medicine or not)

[BCM]

 

electronic music shouldn't be taken too seriously i don't think...it's just a bit of a laugh innit.

Why is electronic music different than anything else? Because you can make music on a laptop without knowing what you're doing (unlike, say, violin or whatever)?

 

 

pretty much...don't matter does it - you can make any old wank these days and some cunt will like it. it's quality and fun and stuff...some things are better produced in the traditional sense than others, but like, loads of people like stuff that's "shit". people that take stuff seriously need to stop taking things so seriously.

[Psychotronic]