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Autechre production methods speculation


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On 12/6/2019 at 11:05 AM, cern said:

Is it really possible that they working 100% in MAX? I mean patches, instruments, effects, mixing, sequencers for sure but how about really arrange,edit everything and record it? That needs a DAW in my world. 

Yeah, most likely. Old school Seanrobbers just don't need plebs instruments. Just like RDJs main instrument is sandpaper. His only car is a tank.

So my honest idea about that Max  thing...story: They're just making it up and mainly use DAWs and VSTs just as everyone does. But please don't tell anyone.

Guys I'm 47 now. I loved those kind of stories when I was <20, when all our mutual heroes came to light, but c'mon.

Edited by Guest
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  • 1 year later...

'Analysis and recreation of key features in selected Autechre tracks from 1998-2005' > https://www.researchonline.mq.edu.au/vital/access/manager/Repository/mq:71099 

Not as futuristic in terms of some of Zeff's ideas/theories (probably due to when this was written) but some solid information and an interesting read. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/13/2019 at 11:47 PM, Guest said:

Yeah, most likely. Old school Seanrobbers just don't need plebs instruments. Just like RDJs main instrument is sandpaper. His only car is a tank.

So my honest idea about that Max  thing...story: They're just making it up and mainly use DAWs and VSTs just as everyone does. But please don't tell anyone.

Guys I'm 47 now. I loved those kind of stories when I was <20, when all our mutual heroes came to light, but c'mon.

i doubt it i dont think it can be done that way

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On 6/22/2019 at 10:34 AM, xox said:

another thing that i dont understand is why would ae use max for all this algorithmic craziness?! wouldnt it be better/easier/more efficient/more powerful to use something like haskell+sc as pointed out by Nil?

i would say ive lost faith in text based programming languages.  i think visual programming languages are the true future, once the incidental details required to implement certain types of operations are sufficiently abstracted out, and rich turing complete primitive operations are made which can be organized in a way capable of representing any relevant computation, specifically those required for this sort of generic music production.  in other words max/msp style boxes with wires connecting them and short strings as function names.  each function is pure and realtime but can contain internal state for more advanced computation. 

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11 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

i would say ive lost faith in text based programming languages.  i think visual programming languages are the true future, once the incidental details required to implement certain types of operations are sufficiently abstracted out, and rich turing complete primitive operations are made which can be organized in a way capable of representing any relevant computation, specifically those required for this sort of generic music production.  in other words max/msp style boxes with wires connecting them and short strings as function names.  each function is pure and realtime but can contain internal state for more advanced computation. 

To answer xox's post, don't overlook that Ae are fluent with Max. Why would they use something else if they can get what they want of an environnement they obviously know like the back of their hand ?
re : text based language: as far as I'm concerned, I love Tidal so much because of its keyboard-driven workflow, and I can't help thinking that the computer keyboard is the most adequate and logical device to interface with softwares (reduces wrist pain drastically compaed to using a mouse too). YMMV obviously.

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@cyanobacteria @Nil

i see, thnx! 

I generally understand strengths of using maxmap, especially for someone who knows it well. My question (can’t remember writing that post lol) was actually solely about algorithmic composition. Imo, that’s where a text based environment could be significantly more useful and easier than MaxMSP. Of course, for some other things too; it’s ridiculously easy to make an fm synth with 10000 oscillators in supercollider with evenly distributed frequency modulations or to blur the line between synthesis and sequencing/event algos. But the point is who needs a fm synth with 10000 oscillators? Other gimmicks are also achievable in max, just with more work than in sc, but for some things vice versa also applies. What max offers is more open approach to experimentation imo; you start building without knowing where you go exactly and on that path you see things you wouldn’t otherwise, patching things additionally without knowing will it work or not, if not no prob, no need to rewrite shit back.... To me, in supercollider it’s more intellectual, i usually MUST have a more vividly defined global plan early on, more micro plans too.... nesting objects from inside out /* it forces you to think in advance constantly, to have habits, to know the complete and exact order of objects and arguments used in advance (mostly)... i mean, any programming language asks this but in max you can flow more freely until coming to specific technical obstacles that where created by your creative wishes and explorations not bc you didn’t think about them in advance bc you couldn’t foreseen them before anyway. So, imo working in max feels more like any other normal healthy creative process, more open where you discover things along the way. Supercollider feels less like that. Well, significantly less. At least to me, with my limited knowledge and experience.

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1 hour ago, xox said:

Of course, for some other things too; it’s ridiculously easy to make an fm synth with 10000 oscillators in supercollider with evenly distributed frequency modulations or to blur the line between synthesis and sequencing/event algos.

Since Max 8, it's ridiculously easy to make an FM synth with 1000 oscillators using  the MC (multichannel) wrapper.

Outside of that, I totally agree with what you're saying. I've spent a good amount of time in Supercollider and it is very powerful. However, one of the things that brought me back to using Max was how you could be 5 levels down in a patch and quickly create a slider or a knob and use the inspector to set the proper ranges for it and start tweaking and tuning a sound.  Doing this in Supercollider isn't terribly hard, but its definitely enough thought that I'm switching from being creative to doing more technical/troubleshooting kind of stuff.  After that, dealing with saving/restoring states of UI objects in SC is so much more of a hassle. With the pattr system in Max I don't have to think about it much at all.

Of course I would never try to build a 'real' application in Max, but if you approach it more as a canvas for musical ideas and a way really leverage whats possible from a computer while writing music, it's got a lot going for it.

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If opposing Max against SuperCollider, do you guys remember Cylob Music System ? Not talking about the amazing EPs but about the software bits.

Anyway, top discussion here. I believe it all comes down to personal preferences and ease with this or that workflow. Making music can be challenging itself enough, hopefully the instruments we use lessen the friction between our expectations and the end result, making the creative process smoother. Just my opinion here of course.

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1 hour ago, nikisoko said:

Since Max 8, it's ridiculously easy to make an FM synth with 1000 oscillators using  the MC (multichannel) wrapper.

Totally forgot about the mc; haven’t played with it much! 

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On 2/27/2021 at 5:35 PM, Nil said:

If opposing Max against SuperCollider, do you guys remember Cylob Music System ? Not talking about the amazing EPs but about the software bits.

Anyway, top discussion here. I believe it all comes down to personal preferences and ease with this or that workflow. Making music can be challenging itself enough, hopefully the instruments we use lessen the friction between our expectations and the end result, making the creative process smoother. Just my opinion here of course.

Yeah that was freaking rad! Markus Popp aka Oval had a cool ass software called Ovalprocess also! 

 

ovalprocesshelp-Ty9Q8wDfo_m0nJ9etp4nUhP8RBA0XIKS.gif

Edited by cern
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  • 4 months later...

What about the sound design aspect of their tracks ? Do you think at this point this part of the work is mixed with the rest ? Are they focusing on sound design before going further with the process ? Are they picking a certain synthesis / sound design technique for a release and exploring that direction ? (like with FM in Oversteps ?) 

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5 hours ago, d-a-m-o said:

What about the sound design aspect of their tracks ? Do you think at this point this part of the work is mixed with the rest ? Are they focusing on sound design before going further with the process ? Are they picking a certain synthesis / sound design technique for a release and exploring that direction ? (like with FM in Oversteps ?) 

Would you say that Oversteps was focused on FM? I havent listened to it for a while except Yuop but from what I remember its mostly subtractive, heavily filtered/fx-ed saws and squares. 
I dont think it matters much at this point by the way, I think Sean also talked about it. "all the same patter". When you design your own effects etc. and you use it as an instrument instead of an end of chain reverb or something, it doesnt really matter imo. And in Max ideas get so blurry anyway. Very easy to mish mash everything. I dont remember a thing where they were focused on one thing, but my memory might be playing me... 

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On 2/13/2021 at 8:12 AM, flacid said:

'Analysis and recreation of key features in selected Autechre tracks from 1998-2005' > https://www.researchonline.mq.edu.au/vital/access/manager/Repository/mq:71099 

Not as futuristic in terms of some of Zeff's ideas/theories (probably due to when this was written) but some solid information and an interesting read. 

"Autechre are contemporary electronic musicians from Suffolk and London"

:rtfm::rtfm::rtfm: 

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