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I don't know what this says about creativity for the younger generation.

 

Don't bother working really hard for two or three years struggling to write something original like a fucking mug.

Just lift scenes directly from other movies.

Again, I think you are missing the point of this show.

 

 

 

But there are too many movies and shows that do this. I kinda feel like we don't need any more remakes, tributes, homages, inspired-by's for a quite a long time, as there's been no shortage of those at all lol

 

Hollywood has become a shadow of itself. Every now and then, an original idea comes out with a decent budget, but even then amongst those small occurances, it's very hard to find those kinds of productions that aren't compromised in some major way. 

 

Hollywood has been rehashing and reinventing itself since its inception - Star Wars was inspired by the Flash Gordon movies of the 40's and the Akira Kurosawa films, etc.

 

If anything, I think when a truly original idea does come along, it stands out and is more special. The problem is, there just really isn't many original, GOOD ideas anymore.

 

 

that's the problem i have with this show. it isn't good. it's bringing nothing to the table to subvert or reinvent the ideas it exploits. it's just a checklist of eighties references. star wars functioned as a kind of found art object, a dream of serialized fantasy from the forties with cutting edge special effects and a well developed, universally appealing mythology of its own.

one of the larger problems with nerd culture suddenly co-opting popular culture and especially movies is the tidal wave of reference laden, plot based films and television shows that reduce narrative story telling to its most basic components. there are no "original" ideas, obviously. everything is the sum of its influences. but a good artist can focus their influences into a statement that gives us some sense of their feelings about the world, some kind of self expression, even if its through the somewhat myopic prism of pop nostalgia. what i get watching stranger things is that the duffer bros watched a lot of shit in the eighties and read stephen king. i have no idea who they are, what they feel, what the purpose of their work is. and then the work itself fails to entertain or surprise. it's a game of spot the reference. this is what most films have been reduced to. either an ideological checklist a blogger can write thinkpieces about (did we have a strong female protagonist, did we subvert the patriarchal/racist hollywood paradigm, was it problematic?) or a bunch of references and techniques that a redditor can create a front page post about (here's all the shots in stranger things that reference other films). it's boring, lowest common denominator commercial art and i think we can do better.

 

 

true, i think there is a massive problem with nostalgia at the mo, like a strange echo time shift, in film culture anyhow so many remakes etc ec

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I don't know what this says about creativity for the younger generation.

 

Don't bother working really hard for two or three years struggling to write something original like a fucking mug.

Just lift scenes directly from other movies.

Again, I think you are missing the point of this show.

 

 

 

But there are too many movies and shows that do this. I kinda feel like we don't need any more remakes, tributes, homages, inspired-by's for a quite a long time, as there's been no shortage of those at all lol

 

Hollywood has become a shadow of itself. Every now and then, an original idea comes out with a decent budget, but even then amongst those small occurances, it's very hard to find those kinds of productions that aren't compromised in some major way. 

 

Hollywood has been rehashing and reinventing itself since its inception - Star Wars was inspired by the Flash Gordon movies of the 40's and the Akira Kurosawa films, etc.

 

If anything, I think when a truly original idea does come along, it stands out and is more special. The problem is, there just really isn't many original, GOOD ideas anymore.

 

 

that's the problem i have with this show. it isn't good. it's bringing nothing to the table to subvert or reinvent the ideas it exploits. it's just a checklist of eighties references. star wars functioned as a kind of found art object, a dream of serialized fantasy from the forties with cutting edge special effects and a well developed, universally appealing mythology of its own.

one of the larger problems with nerd culture suddenly co-opting popular culture and especially movies is the tidal wave of reference laden, plot based films and television shows that reduce narrative story telling to its most basic components. there are no "original" ideas, obviously. everything is the sum of its influences. but a good artist can focus their influences into a statement that gives us some sense of their feelings about the world, some kind of self expression, even if its through the somewhat myopic prism of pop nostalgia. what i get watching stranger things is that the duffer bros watched a lot of shit in the eighties and read stephen king. i have no idea who they are, what they feel, what the purpose of their work is. and then the work itself fails to entertain or surprise. it's a game of spot the reference. this is what most films have been reduced to. either an ideological checklist a blogger can write thinkpieces about (did we have a strong female protagonist, did we subvert the patriarchal/racist hollywood paradigm, was it problematic?) or a bunch of references and techniques that a redditor can create a front page post about (here's all the shots in stranger things that reference other films). it's boring, lowest common denominator commercial art and i think we can do better.

 

 

 

This is a pretty accurate summary of how I feel about it. The Duffer brothers don't have anything original to say whatsoever. Practically the entire series is a sequence of cut-and-paste scenes from other movies. If I was them, I'd be embarrassed with the extent to which I'd plundered the work of others. They haven't been influenced by anything, they have paid homage to anyone - they've just blatantly copied people with actual talent.

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watch wayward pines also duffer brothers :/  

 

 

Yeah, I saw the first series of that. It was sort of Twin Peaks but with some nice twists and things that were enjoyable and sort of unexpected. It took inspiration from people like David Lynch but wove in some original elements.

 

Stranger Things is nothing like that.

 

It's really no wonder that lots of TV and film is so poor nowadays. The younger generation of film-makers and so forth will look at the gushing reviews of a show like 'Stranger Things' and think "Hey, no need to do the legwork, no need to dream up original ideas. Just take all the best scenes from our favourite books and movies, mix them up and call it an homage.

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I don't know what this says about creativity for the younger generation.

 

Don't bother working really hard for two or three years struggling to write something original like a fucking mug.

Just lift scenes directly from other movies.

Again, I think you are missing the point of this show.

 

 

 

But there are too many movies and shows that do this. I kinda feel like we don't need any more remakes, tributes, homages, inspired-by's for a quite a long time, as there's been no shortage of those at all lol

 

Hollywood has become a shadow of itself. Every now and then, an original idea comes out with a decent budget, but even then amongst those small occurances, it's very hard to find those kinds of productions that aren't compromised in some major way. 

 

Hollywood has been rehashing and reinventing itself since its inception - Star Wars was inspired by the Flash Gordon movies of the 40's and the Akira Kurosawa films, etc.

 

If anything, I think when a truly original idea does come along, it stands out and is more special. The problem is, there just really isn't many original, GOOD ideas anymore.

 

 

what i get watching stranger things is that the duffer bros watched a lot of shit in the eighties and read stephen king. i have no idea who they are, what they feel, what the purpose of their work is. and then the work itself fails to entertain or surprise. it's a game of spot the reference.

 

 

 

If you look at something like 'Breaking Bad' or 'Better Call Saul' (okay we can argue whether or not they are good shows), the writer, Vince Gilligan has obviously been influenced by different things but there is enough of him in the writing that you can watch it and get an insight into him as a person.

 

I could watch a TV show by him without knowing he had written it and still guess it was his work because he has identifiable themes and issues that crop up again and again in his writing.

 

Obviously not everything he's done is brilliant, some ideas in the shows are flat and uninspired but the difference is they are mostly his ideas.

 

But with the Duffer brothers, I just don't identify with them whatsoever. They are just masquerading as King and Spielberg. The show belongs entirely to them.

 

And Vangelis & Tangerine Dream (whose original works are mixed in with the Carpenter inspired soundtrack).

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I don't know what this says about creativity for the younger generation.

 

Don't bother working really hard for two or three years struggling to write something original like a fucking mug.

Just lift scenes directly from other movies.

Again, I think you are missing the point of this show.

 

 

 

But there are too many movies and shows that do this. I kinda feel like we don't need any more remakes, tributes, homages, inspired-by's for a quite a long time, as there's been no shortage of those at all lol

 

Hollywood has become a shadow of itself. Every now and then, an original idea comes out with a decent budget, but even then amongst those small occurances, it's very hard to find those kinds of productions that aren't compromised in some major way. 

 

Hollywood has been rehashing and reinventing itself since its inception - Star Wars was inspired by the Flash Gordon movies of the 40's and the Akira Kurosawa films, etc.

 

If anything, I think when a truly original idea does come along, it stands out and is more special. The problem is, there just really isn't many original, GOOD ideas anymore.

 

 

that's the problem i have with this show. it isn't good. it's bringing nothing to the table to subvert or reinvent the ideas it exploits. it's just a checklist of eighties references. star wars functioned as a kind of found art object, a dream of serialized fantasy from the forties with cutting edge special effects and a well developed, universally appealing mythology of its own.

one of the larger problems with nerd culture suddenly co-opting popular culture and especially movies is the tidal wave of reference laden, plot based films and television shows that reduce narrative story telling to its most basic components. there are no "original" ideas, obviously. everything is the sum of its influences. but a good artist can focus their influences into a statement that gives us some sense of their feelings about the world, some kind of self expression, even if its through the somewhat myopic prism of pop nostalgia. what i get watching stranger things is that the duffer bros watched a lot of shit in the eighties and read stephen king. i have no idea who they are, what they feel, what the purpose of their work is. and then the work itself fails to entertain or surprise. it's a game of spot the reference. this is what most films have been reduced to. either an ideological checklist a blogger can write thinkpieces about (did we have a strong female protagonist, did we subvert the patriarchal/racist hollywood paradigm, was it problematic?) or a bunch of references and techniques that a redditor can create a front page post about (here's all the shots in stranger things that reference other films). it's boring, lowest common denominator commercial art and i think we can do better.

 

 

 

Yeah agreed. I don't know, I think coming up with original ideas is not as hard as people make it out to sound, honestly lol

 

I'll choose an original idea that's not so fantastic, but still kinda cool, any day over a blatant rip off. 

 

With music and for composers/songwriters/producers, of course, its the same thing, we all have these webs of influence from music that we've listened to through our lives that either subconsciously or consciously effect our process or ideas. I think the more well rounded of a background we have and the more diversity in our tastes and what we've been exposed to, the more easy it is to combine various ideas we've heard into something more unique than if we were exposed to less variation. But even with that, anyone is capable of originality despite what they've been exposed to. It's about experimentation, drawing from life ideas, imagination, dreams. Everyone dreams and wonders, so I don't understand how people have a hard time coming up with something original. Maybe I'm just spoiled with having an active imagination, I don't know, but I feel like cool ideas are kind of hard not to come up with. 

 

It's sad, so many filmmakers with huge budgets, great technical skills, influence in the industry and the opportunity to be in a place where they are living their dreams and they can present us with great art, yet they really can't come up with their own visions? wtf?  or is it more political, and its just that the big corporations don't want to take a risk on something that isn't tried and true?

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The best ideas are when someone takes an existing one and alters it somehow - thus giving it a sense of uniqueness. All the best art, music, writing and films have their foundation in something already established but they then alter it enough to make it fresh and new again.

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The best ideas are when someone takes an existing one and alters it somehow - thus giving it a sense of uniqueness. All the best art, music, writing and films have their foundation in something already established but they then alter it enough to make it fresh and new again.

 

 

I think that's a great recipe for a great idea, when original ideas are altered or played with, and agreed many great pieces of art have been created that way. But I think just as great are ideas that are more wholly unique (of course, probably no idea is pure wholly unique), and are compelling. It's easier to sell altered ideas that have already been done to the masses, but there will always be niches that appreciate more wholly unique things, (some of the films of lynch, cronenberg, etc).  

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The best ideas are when someone takes an existing one and alters it somehow - thus giving it a sense of uniqueness. All the best art, music, writing and films have their foundation in something already established but they then alter it enough to make it fresh and new again.

 

i have a problem with this analogy. i don't believe anything has to be one way or another. while some good ideas take existing ideas and expand/alter them, i don't think they have to necessary be "grafted" from some existing idea. 

 

another problem i have with the above analogy is the excuse that one doesn't have to look to being creative and/original as you can always just take an existing idea and alter it somehow since that's how all ideas come around. 

 

"a man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inwards; as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push" ludwig wittegenstein

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Oops, totally missed this thread, I wrote about it earlier on the tv recently watched thread. For the record I am in the camp of actually liking this show...a lot. Also the brothers have mentioned they were influenced by non-80s era stuff like Silent Hill. I don't care, the paranormal + CIA experiment conspiracy stuff was exciting enough for me and I am a sucker for the era of films, including I might add the pacing and cinematography, not just the sets and props, it impressively emulated.  

 

The theme song is a straight-up ripoff of Welcome to the Machine by Pink Floyd. 

 

I wouldn't say straight-up ripoff but I admit I can't unhear that now, nice catch. The band has said they were not only using vintage synths but going for a 70s era synth score sound, with a darker Carpenter vibe to fit the show. I wouldn't be shocked if the coincidence is a deliberate nod to Floyd in that case. Pink Floyd alluded to Dr. Who in "One of These Days" after all.

 

 

 

 

I don't know what this says about creativity for the younger generation.

 

Don't bother working really hard for two or three years struggling to write something original like a fucking mug.

Just lift scenes directly from other movies.

Again, I think you are missing the point of this show.

 

 

 

But there are too many movies and shows that do this. I kinda feel like we don't need any more remakes, tributes, homages, inspired-by's for a quite a long time, as there's been no shortage of those at all lol

 

Hollywood has become a shadow of itself. Every now and then, an original idea comes out with a decent budget, but even then amongst those small occurances, it's very hard to find those kinds of productions that aren't compromised in some major way. 

 

 

it's kinda late to dislike them now. reboots/remakes, tributes, homages etc are officially a new genre for the current generation that (supposedly) cannot watch originals because they can't identify with anything made 20+ years ago.

 

for the studios, they already have a built in audience (star wars: a new hope/the force awakens reboot/sequel) they're easier to license (eg. fox license for spider-man and fantastic four) and they almost always make lots of money because most audiences aren't adventurous film lovers (how many youtube reviewers mainly review blockbusters as opposed to indie films or foreign cinema?)

 

it's a strangely symbiotic relationship because as much as people cry they're tired of remakes/reboots- those are almost always the biggest films, because we can never have enough jason bourne films

 

 

Remakes were really common in early Hollywood as well, many classics of the 50s and 60s were remade from the 30s which were remade from silent film era originals. And of course much of it was adapted from existing plays and novels. There's plenty of original efforts out there, just very very little money behind it. I cringe too to think how little creative control there is when an original screenplay gets to a major studio production level.

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 I cringe too to think how little creative control there is when an original screenplay gets to a major studio production level.

 

don't cringe too hard. it's starting to have the opposite effect with the current slew of disaster flops currently affecting the studios. it's so bad there has already been a flop alert issued on ben hur

 

SecondEnlightenedIndochinahogdeer-size_r

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thought this was great. the level of nostalgia and homage wasn't too overbearing, they really nailed the aesthetic with music/set design/dialog/etc. the acting was all pretty great - which is hard to pull off with so many kids in it. was really well directed too, production design and effects were all great for the most part. the plotting and pacing throughout the season was well done as well, plenty of different threads to keep things interesting, and they all intersected nicely at the end.

 

the idea that it brought nothing new to the table is nonsense as well, it wasn't just some pastiche of 80s ideas (I'm a child of the 80s), took lots of elements that have been used before but constructed something unique out of the whole thing, plenty of original elements added as well.

 

only gripe I had was the monster cg was kind of crappy in the final episode when you get to see him a good bit, was fine when you only saw him in flashes in the darkness. his design wasn't as interesting as the rest of the alien/monstery stuff from his realm either.

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I cringe too to think how little creative control there is when an original screenplay gets to a major studio production level.

don't cringe too hard. it's starting to have the opposite effect with the current slew of disaster flops currently affecting the studios. it's so bad there has already been a flop alert issued on ben hur

 

SecondEnlightenedIndochinahogdeer-size_r

I had no idea Ben Hur was being remade...(I live under a rock but still).

 

Also lol at that .gif

 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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I hope the new Twin Peaks sets a new precedent and 1-ups every show we have seen in the past 20 years.

 

I watched the first episode and might carry on, but from what I have read it just seems a bit too safe.

Agreed that the soundtrack is fairly fun though.

Edited by fletcher
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 I cringe too to think how little creative control there is when an original screenplay gets to a major studio production level.

 

don't cringe too hard. it's starting to have the opposite effect with the current slew of disaster flops currently affecting the studios. it's so bad there has already been a flop alert issued on ben hur

 

SecondEnlightenedIndochinahogdeer-size_r

 

HOLY SHIT LOL DAT GIF

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I hope the soundtrack release is the actual score, not The Clash, Peter Gabriel etc. Does anyone know if this is the case? (my google broke and is under repair)

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yeh love the fact that there is zero appreciation of the hard graft involved in recreation

 

that's an art in itself and as said above, the 2nd oldest form of art of all

 

 

 

maybe if people original disses i'd read them.

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I hope the new Twin Peaks sets a new precedent and 1-ups every show we have seen in the past 20 years.

 

I watched the first episode and might carry on, but from what I have read it just seems a bit too safe.

Agreed that the soundtrack is fairly fun though.

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