Any DAW that allows the use of 'logic chains'?

[Brisbot]

I'm wondering if this is a thing somewhere. I have little experience with MAX/MSP, Supercollider, etc. So I'm wondering if this is a thing there.

I've always wanted to set "If-Then" statements in my DAW (so using this in Fl Studio in my case). For example, say you have a random lfo on a synth that's panning thru the whole stereo field. Wouldn't it be nice if you could set an if-then to say "IF the synth is more panned toward the middle, THEN raise the volume of frequencies higher than.. idk 1500" It's a random example, but you could do very interesting things with this. Instead of panning, you could instead have it distort more or something. The human ear notices correlation/patterns, and that kinda correlation would be pleasing.

There are a billion more examples where that comes from. You should be able to use any parameters and set if-thens to any others.

You should also be able to set up whole logic chains, and create complex patterns to make long sweeping drone pads that keep changing . All you'd have to do is set an a lfo somewhere in the chain to change in HZ instead of tempo locked at 1/4 or 1/2. Or perhaps just have a 'random' value somewhere. Imagine having something panning a certain amount, and dynamically changing timbres as it goes in the pattern of your if-then logic chain. IT will sound like you're the king of automation even though you basically just randomly generated it.

You should be able to record the automation the if-then comes up with. So you can place it down and manually alter it if you want.

You'd probably have to use midi data to define the values in the chains.

It would be nice if it's in a DAW since you'd be able to do this on top of everything else. It would be just another option.

Oh, and you'd be able to use other things like 'else' 'or else' etc.

[Ragnar]

I'm wondering if this is a thing somewhere. I have little experience with MAX/MSP, Supercollider, etc. So I'm wondering if this is a thing there.

 

I've always wanted to set "If-Then" statements in my DAW (so using this in Fl Studio in my case). For example, say you have a random lfo on a synth that's panning thru the whole stereo field. Wouldn't it be nice if you could set an if-then to say "IF the synth is more panned toward the middle, THEN raise the volume of frequencies higher than.. idk 1500" It's a random example, but you could do very interesting things with this. Instead of panning, you could instead have it distort more or something. The human ear notices correlation/patterns, and that kinda correlation would be pleasing.

 

There are a billion more examples where that comes from. You should be able to use any parameters and set if-thens to any others.

 

You should also be able to set up whole logic chains, and create complex patterns to make long sweeping drone pads that keep changing . All you'd have to do is set an a lfo somewhere in the chain to change in HZ instead of tempo locked at 1/4 or 1/2. Or perhaps just have a 'random' value somewhere. Imagine having something panning a certain amount, and dynamically changing timbres as it goes in the pattern of your if-then logic chain. IT will sound like you're the king of automation even though you basically just randomly generated it.

 

You should be able to record the automation the if-then comes up with. So you can place it down and manually alter it if you want.

 

You'd probably have to use midi data to define the values in the chains.

 

It would be nice if it's in a DAW since you'd be able to do this on top of everything else. It would be just another option.

 

Oh, and you'd be able to use other things like 'else' 'or else' etc.

 

skimming the post I think you could just make a reaper JS plugin?

[auxien]

Ableton Live already has a very basic follow pattern ability in their clips which sort of leans this direction but surely not to the complexity that you (or I) are wanting. I've been trying to learn Max to allow the use of stuff like this, as it's surely possible within the Max environment; there are in fact some Max devices that might tend towards the complexity you're wanting... And I've seen some standalone applications that lean that direction as well, but I can't think of any of the top of my head. There has to be some badass programmer out there working on this...

[Brisbot]

 

 

skimming the post I think you could just make a reaper JS plugin?

I might end up trying this. Though I have to learn the language just to do it so I'm trying to find either a DAW or environment that has this already built in. That said, it would probably be worth it if I can get it 100% working.

 

 

 

 

Ableton Live already has a very basic follow pattern ability in their clips which sort of leans this direction but surely not to the complexity that you (or I) are wanting. I've been trying to learn Max to allow the use of stuff like this, as it's surely possible within the Max environment; there are in fact some Max devices that might tend towards the complexity you're wanting... And I've seen some standalone applications that lean that direction as well, but I can't think of any of the top of my head. There has to be some badass programmer out there working on this...

From what I've seen, maybe? I mean it's all about correlation. You should also be able to correlate things like volume to pan, or frequency to pan, etc. I feel like this is a big hole that, if a DAW jumps on this, it would be amazing. You say there HAS to be a badass programmer out there working on it, but I've never seen anyone mention this ever.

 

In my little experience with MAX, it seems like it doesn't work like this. Using logic chains is another way of thinking. I'm currently googling stuff about max to see if it's possible there.

 

I wanna use it in a DAW too so I can use it with what I'm sequencing my stuff with. VS having to record from MAX and just using whatever I get.

[hello spiral]

Yeah there is. Only ae have it though.

[Brisbot]

AE are just average musicians from the year 2116, and just release their music 100 years in the past so it seems amazing. But I know better. 

[auxien]

If it can be quantified, it's possible in Max. The only limitations are in can you quantify and express what you want, and make it work. 

 

Also, 

 

ae have it

 

Seriously. Their Max environments have some amount of what you're talking about, undoubtedly.

[Brisbot]

 

 

Seriously. Their Max environments have some amount of what you're talking about, undoubtedly.

Yeah in all seriousness the idea is very basic. It's actually confusing why it isn't implemented in more standard environments like fl studio/ableton. Seems like an obvious thing to have.

 

 

 

If it can be quantified, it's possible in Max. The only limitations are in can you quantify and express what you want, and make it work. 

 

How integrated with DAWs can Max get? Can I control parameters/automation in FL Studio for example with Max? Either way since this is probably possible it suddenly gives me a reason to try max. I've been looking for one.

 

edit: I'm not interested in making synths from the ground up. Though I am mostly interested in a different logic/approach to automation control, which is what this is about. I'd love to control existing VSTs, and correlate their automations thru logic chains.

[user]

I would look into max for live, the integration with live is quite sublime as (pretty much all) of live's api has become available in m4l. There's a book that will get you started on this. Send me a PM if you're interested. I think live's clip follow behaviour is a bit too limited for this kind of application.     

[Brisbot]

I would look into max for live, the integration with live is quite sublime as (pretty much all) of live's api has become available in m4l. There's a book that will get you started on this. Send me a PM if you're interested. I think live's clip follow behaviour is a bit too limited for this kind of application.     

Hmm. I'm considering switching DAWs after I'm done with some releases of mine and Ableton Live looks like a good switch. This looks like a good reason to switch as well. I kinda want to look through the possibilities before switching, so I don't waste my time.

 

Posting the details of what the book is about here can help others who maybe have a similar idea in the future. Like the name

[auxien]

I think it's not very common in many DAWs or anywhere, really, because the creation and implementation of logic is going to vary so drastically and therefore need to be so malleable that a 'device' that does this is nearly impossible to create...just setting up the actual ideas wouldn't be a huge undertaking, but using them is going to touch so many different places within a patch/track/song/whatever that you can't provide a true solution, just tools for which the end user to create their own solution. Max essentially is that, but somebody (please, someone, somewhere...) has to create the right set of tools. I've seen some things in Max that touch on it, but there's still a ton of construction, and intimate knowledge of the guts within Max, necessary. Hence, I'm not sure it's possible to create a device that does this, truly. Maybe some that provide some basic tools? But without that intimate knowledge of Max, even great tools would be useless.

[iococoi]

Usine?...it's much more DAW than the usual VPLs..i might be the only one using it, but that sort of logic chain shouldn't be a prob @all..and you could connect your vsts( incl. parameters) in a jiffy..there are a whole bunch of readymade data manipulation tools + the whole math enchilada..

 

[kausto]

Logic chains for control purposes are pretty doable in Renoise. There is even Formula Device where you can do relatively simple LUA-stuff with 3 variables which can be modulated etc.

[th555]

You can get quite far with fruity formula controller, it has if-statements, switch case, and you can use 3 sources of automation per instance, the song position, system time...

a controlled by the lfo, if a is lower than b then the output value is c

[sweepstakes]

somebody (please, someone, somewhere...) has to create the right set of tools.

Working on it (for MIDI anyway). Very, very slowly. Sorry.

[mcbpete]

I reckon this:

 

and/or this:

 

 

combined with this:

 

 

Would be able to create the majority of the solutions to the OPs needs

[user]

 

I would look into max for live, the integration with live is quite sublime as (pretty much all) of live's api has become available in m4l. There's a book that will get you started on this. Send me a PM if you're interested. I think live's clip follow behaviour is a bit too limited for this kind of application.     

Hmm. I'm considering switching DAWs after I'm done with some releases of mine and Ableton Live looks like a good switch. This looks like a good reason to switch as well. I kinda want to look through the possibilities before switching, so I don't waste my time.

 

Posting the details of what the book is about here can help others who maybe have a similar idea in the future. Like the name

 

 

Yeah, I probably should've mentioned the name; Max for Live Ultimate Zen Guide.

[auxien]

 

somebody (please, someone, somewhere...) has to create the right set of tools.

Working on it (for MIDI anyway). Very, very slowly. Sorry.

At least someone is, lord knows I'm never going to be good enough with Max to do it. :/

 

Mcbpete that Smart device looks interesting, never seen it before. The first part of that formula has done some good stuff for me before though.

 

Will also have to look at Usine.

[Brisbot]

 

 

You can get quite far with fruity formula controller, it has if-statements, switch case, and you can use 3 sources of automation per instance, the song position, system time

I think this is a scaled down version of what I'm looking for! I've opened the formula controller like once or twice and shrugged it off for the peak controller, but it looks like I am interested in this kinda automation now. You can probably simulate 'bracketed if-thens'  using patcher, I'd bet. 

 

For most formula based automations, It'll probably be simple enough to where I only need a,b, and c. After I get used to this I may look for something more complex.

 

 

 

 

Working on it (for MIDI anyway). Very, very slowly. Sorry.

Hey, make sure you post it in EKT when you're done!

 

 

 

 

Would be able to create the majority of the solutions to the OPs needs 

IDK what that last picture is. It says smart so... I imagine it's smart.

[mcbpete]

Aye, Isotonik Smart - http://isotonikstudios.com/isotonik/modular-series/smart/

[Brisbot]

this looks swag AF

[zleep]

So, I have been working on a midi "If this then that" for a while, I will probably make it a standalone app like ITVL, it is everywhere in my max system for both controlling other modules and generating midi.

 

This is a track I did using this method plus ITVL style sequencing two years ago, 90% are generated, this is direct output from max, the time stretch at the end was added in DAW.

 

[sc5]158417607[/sc5]

[sweepstakes]

 

 

somebody (please, someone, somewhere...) has to create the right set of tools.

Working on it (for MIDI anyway). Very, very slowly. Sorry.

At least someone is, lord knows I'm never going to be good enough with Max to do it. :/

 

 

 

 

Working on it (for MIDI anyway). Very, very slowly. Sorry.

Hey, make sure you post it in EKT when you're done!

 

Thanks, I promise I will share with you guys (and Elektronauts, heh) as early as possible. Turns out I am incredibly shit at managing myself. I wrote a prototype in Max Javascript, before 7 came out, then I converted it to node.js, then I tried writing it in Go (flaky libraries), then Python (too damn slow), then C (wicked fast but awkward to code in) and now I've decided to stick to node, the devil I know. 

 

Since I started working on this project I've probably stopped and started it 4 or 5 times, the scope has exploded, I've focused on stupid minutae that doesn't matter, etc. etc. Finally I saw this Twitter post a while back saying to make a skateboard before you make a car or you're just going to have a wheel and that's pretty lame... so I'm starting with the skateboard. And currently the skateboard is an Octatrack controller for the Novation LaunchPad. Will let everyone know once the skateboard is (semi-) road ready...

[Brisbot]

Yeah man, if you remember, go ahead and pm me as well when you're done. Tho I'll likely see the thread.

[luke viia]

Just skimmed the thread but Bitwig's mod devices (note, LFO, and audio) might be able to do this?