Jump to content

Any DAW that allows the use of 'logic chains'?


Brisbot
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm wondering if this is a thing somewhere. I have little experience with MAX/MSP, Supercollider, etc. So I'm wondering if this is a thing there.

I've always wanted to set "If-Then" statements in my DAW (so using this in Fl Studio in my case). For example, say you have a random lfo on a synth that's panning thru the whole stereo field. Wouldn't it be nice if you could set an if-then to say "IF the synth is more panned toward the middle, THEN raise the volume of frequencies higher than.. idk 1500" It's a random example, but you could do very interesting things with this. Instead of panning, you could instead have it distort more or something. The human ear notices correlation/patterns, and that kinda correlation would be pleasing.

There are a billion more examples where that comes from. You should be able to use any parameters and set if-thens to any others.

You should also be able to set up whole logic chains, and create complex patterns to make long sweeping drone pads that keep changing . All you'd have to do is set an a lfo somewhere in the chain to change in HZ instead of tempo locked at 1/4 or 1/2. Or perhaps just have a 'random' value somewhere. Imagine having something panning a certain amount, and dynamically changing timbres as it goes in the pattern of your if-then logic chain. IT will sound like you're the king of automation even though you basically just randomly generated it.

You should be able to record the automation the if-then comes up with. So you can place it down and manually alter it if you want.

You'd probably have to use midi data to define the values in the chains.

It would be nice if it's in a DAW since you'd be able to do this on top of everything else. It would be just another option.

Oh, and you'd be able to use other things like 'else' 'or else' etc.

Edited by Brisbot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm wondering if this is a thing somewhere. I have little experience with MAX/MSP, Supercollider, etc. So I'm wondering if this is a thing there.

 

I've always wanted to set "If-Then" statements in my DAW (so using this in Fl Studio in my case). For example, say you have a random lfo on a synth that's panning thru the whole stereo field. Wouldn't it be nice if you could set an if-then to say "IF the synth is more panned toward the middle, THEN raise the volume of frequencies higher than.. idk 1500" It's a random example, but you could do very interesting things with this. Instead of panning, you could instead have it distort more or something. The human ear notices correlation/patterns, and that kinda correlation would be pleasing.

 

There are a billion more examples where that comes from. You should be able to use any parameters and set if-thens to any others.

 

You should also be able to set up whole logic chains, and create complex patterns to make long sweeping drone pads that keep changing . All you'd have to do is set an a lfo somewhere in the chain to change in HZ instead of tempo locked at 1/4 or 1/2. Or perhaps just have a 'random' value somewhere. Imagine having something panning a certain amount, and dynamically changing timbres as it goes in the pattern of your if-then logic chain. IT will sound like you're the king of automation even though you basically just randomly generated it.

 

You should be able to record the automation the if-then comes up with. So you can place it down and manually alter it if you want.

 

You'd probably have to use midi data to define the values in the chains.

 

It would be nice if it's in a DAW since you'd be able to do this on top of everything else. It would be just another option.

 

Oh, and you'd be able to use other things like 'else' 'or else' etc.

 

skimming the post I think you could just make a reaper JS plugin?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ableton Live already has a very basic follow pattern ability in their clips which sort of leans this direction but surely not to the complexity that you (or I) are wanting. I've been trying to learn Max to allow the use of stuff like this, as it's surely possible within the Max environment; there are in fact some Max devices that might tend towards the complexity you're wanting... And I've seen some standalone applications that lean that direction as well, but I can't think of any of the top of my head. There has to be some badass programmer out there working on this...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

skimming the post I think you could just make a reaper JS plugin?

I might end up trying this. Though I have to learn the language just to do it so I'm trying to find either a DAW or environment that has this already built in. That said, it would probably be worth it if I can get it 100% working.

 

 

 

 

Ableton Live already has a very basic follow pattern ability in their clips which sort of leans this direction but surely not to the complexity that you (or I) are wanting. I've been trying to learn Max to allow the use of stuff like this, as it's surely possible within the Max environment; there are in fact some Max devices that might tend towards the complexity you're wanting... And I've seen some standalone applications that lean that direction as well, but I can't think of any of the top of my head. There has to be some badass programmer out there working on this...

From what I've seen, maybe? I mean it's all about correlation. You should also be able to correlate things like volume to pan, or frequency to pan, etc. I feel like this is a big hole that, if a DAW jumps on this, it would be amazing. You say there HAS to be a badass programmer out there working on it, but I've never seen anyone mention this ever.

 

In my little experience with MAX, it seems like it doesn't work like this. Using logic chains is another way of thinking. I'm currently googling stuff about max to see if it's possible there.

 

I wanna use it in a DAW too so I can use it with what I'm sequencing my stuff with. VS having to record from MAX and just using whatever I get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it can be quantified, it's possible in Max. The only limitations are in can you quantify and express what you want, and make it work. 

 

Also, 

 

ae have it

 

Seriously. Their Max environments have some amount of what you're talking about, undoubtedly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Seriously. Their Max environments have some amount of what you're talking about, undoubtedly.

Yeah in all seriousness the idea is very basic. It's actually confusing why it isn't implemented in more standard environments like fl studio/ableton. Seems like an obvious thing to have.

 

 

 

If it can be quantified, it's possible in Max. The only limitations are in can you quantify and express what you want, and make it work. 

 

How integrated with DAWs can Max get? Can I control parameters/automation in FL Studio for example with Max? Either way since this is probably possible it suddenly gives me a reason to try max. I've been looking for one.

 

edit: I'm not interested in making synths from the ground up. Though I am mostly interested in a different logic/approach to automation control, which is what this is about. I'd love to control existing VSTs, and correlate their automations thru logic chains.

Edited by Brisbot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would look into max for live, the integration with live is quite sublime as (pretty much all) of live's api has become available in m4l. There's a book that will get you started on this. Send me a PM if you're interested. I think live's clip follow behaviour is a bit too limited for this kind of application.     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would look into max for live, the integration with live is quite sublime as (pretty much all) of live's api has become available in m4l. There's a book that will get you started on this. Send me a PM if you're interested. I think live's clip follow behaviour is a bit too limited for this kind of application.     

Hmm. I'm considering switching DAWs after I'm done with some releases of mine and Ableton Live looks like a good switch. This looks like a good reason to switch as well. I kinda want to look through the possibilities before switching, so I don't waste my time.

 

Posting the details of what the book is about here can help others who maybe have a similar idea in the future. Like the name

Edited by Brisbot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's not very common in many DAWs or anywhere, really, because the creation and implementation of logic is going to vary so drastically and therefore need to be so malleable that a 'device' that does this is nearly impossible to create...just setting up the actual ideas wouldn't be a huge undertaking, but using them is going to touch so many different places within a patch/track/song/whatever that you can't provide a true solution, just tools for which the end user to create their own solution. Max essentially is that, but somebody (please, someone, somewhere...) has to create the right set of tools. I've seen some things in Max that touch on it, but there's still a ton of construction, and intimate knowledge of the guts within Max, necessary. Hence, I'm not sure it's possible to create a device that does this, truly. Maybe some that provide some basic tools? But without that intimate knowledge of Max, even great tools would be useless.

Edited by auxien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Usine?...it's much more DAW than the usual VPLs..i might be the only one using it, but that sort of logic chain shouldn't be a prob @all..and you could connect your vsts( incl. parameters) in a jiffy..there are a whole bunch of readymade data manipulation tools + the whole math enchilada..

 

dcfx42saz161kxo3f.png

dcfx8ih1eipozfynv.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can get quite far with fruity formula controller, it has if-statements, switch case, and you can use 3 sources of automation per instance, the song position, system time...

3C5dzCA.jpg

a controlled by the lfo, if a is lower than b then the output value is c

Edited by th555
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I would look into max for live, the integration with live is quite sublime as (pretty much all) of live's api has become available in m4l. There's a book that will get you started on this. Send me a PM if you're interested. I think live's clip follow behaviour is a bit too limited for this kind of application.     

Hmm. I'm considering switching DAWs after I'm done with some releases of mine and Ableton Live looks like a good switch. This looks like a good reason to switch as well. I kinda want to look through the possibilities before switching, so I don't waste my time.

 

Posting the details of what the book is about here can help others who maybe have a similar idea in the future. Like the name

 

 

Yeah, I probably should've mentioned the name; Max for Live Ultimate Zen Guide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

somebody (please, someone, somewhere...) has to create the right set of tools.

Working on it (for MIDI anyway). Very, very slowly. Sorry.
At least someone is, lord knows I'm never going to be good enough with Max to do it. :/

 

Mcbpete that Smart device looks interesting, never seen it before. The first part of that formula has done some good stuff for me before though.

 

Will also have to look at Usine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

You can get quite far with fruity formula controller, it has if-statements, switch case, and you can use 3 sources of automation per instance, the song position, system time

I think this is a scaled down version of what I'm looking for! I've opened the formula controller like once or twice and shrugged it off for the peak controller, but it looks like I am interested in this kinda automation now. You can probably simulate 'bracketed if-thens'  using patcher, I'd bet. 

 

For most formula based automations, It'll probably be simple enough to where I only need a,b, and c. After I get used to this I may look for something more complex.

 

 

 

 

Working on it (for MIDI anyway). Very, very slowly. Sorry.

Hey, make sure you post it in EKT when you're done!

 

 

 

 

Would be able to create the majority of the solutions to the OPs needs 

IDK what that last picture is. It says smart so... I imagine it's smart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I have been working on a midi "If this then that" for a while, I will probably make it a standalone app like ITVL, it is everywhere in my max system for both controlling other modules and generating midi.

 

This is a track I did using this method plus ITVL style sequencing two years ago, 90% are generated, this is direct output from max, the time stretch at the end was added in DAW.

 

[sc5]158417607[/sc5]

Edited by zleep
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

somebody (please, someone, somewhere...) has to create the right set of tools.

Working on it (for MIDI anyway). Very, very slowly. Sorry.
At least someone is, lord knows I'm never going to be good enough with Max to do it. :/

 

 

 

 

Working on it (for MIDI anyway). Very, very slowly. Sorry.

Hey, make sure you post it in EKT when you're done!

 

Thanks, I promise I will share with you guys (and Elektronauts, heh) as early as possible. Turns out I am incredibly shit at managing myself. I wrote a prototype in Max Javascript, before 7 came out, then I converted it to node.js, then I tried writing it in Go (flaky libraries), then Python (too damn slow), then C (wicked fast but awkward to code in) and now I've decided to stick to node, the devil I know. 

 

Since I started working on this project I've probably stopped and started it 4 or 5 times, the scope has exploded, I've focused on stupid minutae that doesn't matter, etc. etc. Finally I saw this Twitter post a while back saying to make a skateboard before you make a car or you're just going to have a wheel and that's pretty lame... so I'm starting with the skateboard. And currently the skateboard is an Octatrack controller for the Novation LaunchPad. Will let everyone know once the skateboard is (semi-) road ready...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...